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Post by scooter on Dec 8, 2014 17:48:30 GMT -5
What kills me about that rain spinner, they are charging a hundred bucks for $2-3 worth of plastic and a 50cent strap, and a 10cent bolt. Some margins are just insane, especially for niche devices that don't have enough demand for competition to bring the price down. Imagine how much we would be spending on scooters if the Chinese hadn't brought such intense competition to the market. Vespas and all the other "high-end" scooters would be 1-2 thousand dollars more each if not for the competition of cheap Chinese scooters! I can tell you from experience that getting a plastic part made costs a fortune unless you are buying HUGE quantities of it. In this case the plastic also has to have excellent optical quality and clarity, and I'm sure that made it twice as expensive as it would have been otherwise. This is why I never got my parts made. The price to get the plastic part was more than I was planning on selling the whole finished product for retail. Same for the finish. My costs would have been at least three times what I initially intended to sell the finished units for. Trying to go small time with plastics is a tough deal and something tells me that company doesn't have a hundred thousand people begging for whirly-gig visors. |
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Post by JerryScript on Dec 8, 2014 20:55:09 GMT -5
Yes, molds are expensive, pre-production is expensive, that's why there are alternative material choices, and alternative production methods (I'm almost positive there is a pre-existing mold that would suit the purpose here, perhaps using attached vanes instead of molded ones, meaning an off the shelf alternative to pre-production expenses exists). This particular device could also be manufactured inexpensively with different materials. It's the lack of demand that prevents the innovation that would bring the price down. That being said, I'm pretty sure the markup is extreme on this particular product, due to lack of demand allowing them to make the low quantity manufacturing run markups everyone accepts.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 8, 2014 22:26:41 GMT -5
Yes, molds are expensive, pre-production is expensive, that's why there are alternative material choices, and alternative production methods (I'm almost positive there is a pre-existing mold that would suit the purpose here, perhaps using attached vanes instead of molded ones, meaning an off the shelf alternative to pre-production expenses exists). This particular device could also be manufactured inexpensively with different materials. It's the lack of demand that prevents the innovation that would bring the price down. That being said, I'm pretty sure the markup is extreme on this particular product, due to lack of demand allowing them to make the low quantity manufacturing run markups everyone accepts. Absolutely...
THIS one IS "factory-made" and molds would be pricey! The "original" (and I actually BOUGHT one...) was a FLAT piece of Lexan, with the vanes individually epoxied on. The center had a hole drilled in it, and a very high-quality sealed ball-bearing to spin on. It would actually stay spinning for quite a while after stopping your ride (like those spinning wheel-disks you see turning at red-lights...) and a quick spin by hand got it going like crazy as you started up.
Being FLAT, it did NOT like you to turn your head much... LOL! It would try to twist your head off... And when REALLY spinning, the gyroscopic effect gave it a LOT of "grab" in the air, and SERIOUS leverage on your head... But dang! You could actually SEE in the rain! Woo-HOO!
Mine was "pseudo-mass-produced" but obviously made on a kitchen-table, one-at-a-time, the disk being cut with a sabre-saw and the edge left pretty crude. The "elastic" strap was a piece of black nylon rope you tied behind your head like the Lone Ranger's mask... If you inadvertently tipped your head UP, the whole thing would fly off and head for the clouds like a Frisbee... Racers duct-taped the strap to their helmets to avoid losing the thing... (at least those racers who bothered to wear helmets, anyway...). Lots of grade-school football helmets, Army "steel-pots" and WWII leather flyer's helmets in racing back then.
Many macho riders looked at helmets the way WWI pilots viewed parachutes... "Not manly". Like Arte Johnson (the comic Nazi trooper on "Laugh-In") used to say: "Verrrrry interesting, but SHTOOPID!"
OK, for those who don't remember "Laugh-In" it was a wildy-popular comedy variety show in the late sixties, starring Rowan & Martin. OK, if you don't remember them, you GOTTA remember Goldie Hawn. If you don't remember Goldie Hawn, you actually may not know just how good a bikini-girl could look... LOL!
Sometimes, I forget just how long ago the 1950's and 60's REALLY were...
It definitely needed some additional engineering.
I didn't use the thing for long... Simply wearing a helmet while riding a chopper got enough razz-berries and belly-laughs from my saddle-pals, and THAT whirligig pushed the envelope TOO far... LOLOLOL! I might as well had been wearing a "Howdy Doody" propeller-beanie. Hmmm... Come to think about it, I may just add a "Clarabell the Clown" squeeze-bulb horn to old Minnie Mouse. THOSE things are pretty cool! And the local kiddies would love it instead of just a friendly old geezer wave.
These days, I try to stay OUT of the rain... Yup!
Ride safe, ride DRY!
Leo
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Post by SylvreKat on Dec 8, 2014 23:24:49 GMT -5
[/p] Being FLAT, it did NOT like you to turn your head much... LOL! It would try to twist your head off... And when REALLY spinning, the gyroscopic effect gave it a LOT of "grab" in the air, and SERIOUS leverage on your head...
[/quote] Okay, now I have this mental image of Unca Leo being lifted off his chopper and flying away!  For Minnie, how's about a ba-ooga horn? Like the purple taxi's? (I know, going from Clarabelle to Captain Kangaroo) >'Kat |
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Post by raventurous on Dec 8, 2014 23:40:54 GMT -5
The worst part of riding for me is living in a city with corrupt infrastructure. Dude, the potholes in San Diego are INTENSE...!
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Post by scooter on Dec 8, 2014 23:52:10 GMT -5
Yes, molds are expensive, pre-production is expensive, that's why there are alternative material choices, and alternative production methods (I'm almost positive there is a pre-existing mold that would suit the purpose here, perhaps using attached vanes instead of molded ones, meaning an off the shelf alternative to pre-production expenses exists). This particular device could also be manufactured inexpensively with different materials. It's the lack of demand that prevents the innovation that would bring the price down. That being said, I'm pretty sure the markup is extreme on this particular product, due to lack of demand allowing them to make the low quantity manufacturing run markups everyone accepts. I have to say the process, for me, was exhausting and frustrating. I tried going to a thinner plastic, I tried using cheaper plastics, I tried switching to metal, and I even made a test in fiberglass. In the end, I gave up. It was like being in one of those cartoons where the character is running back and forth trying to escape while someone above is cutting them off with a giant cleaver. I know I should have kept trying but I really got tired of having big numbers shoved in my face. Even the fiberglass was outrageous. I saw similarly manufactured items that costed a dollar, yet for me to get runs in small quantities it was in the hundreds of dollars. I do understand though. One can spend a week prepping to do a million parts and it only adds a few cents to each part, but trying to spend a week on a hundred parts makes them cost prohibitive. I'd suggest anyone try to actually make a product like you are talking about that is durable and looks "factory" and see how much time and money it takes to make one. Then at least double that "cost" to make a profit. Plus we're competing with people like the Chinese on top of it all. These people have the low wages and high production that make assembled GY6 heads possible for $30. And that's the price I pay retail! |
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Post by scooter on Dec 9, 2014 0:01:27 GMT -5
A truly practical idea that sadly seemed "creepy-weird" to all but serious racers!
I see what you mean. I'd wear it if it meant winning a race. |
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Post by rockynv on Dec 9, 2014 7:52:01 GMT -5
Yes rocky. But how many of those phoners-while-driving folks fall in either category? Versus how many are just calling the friend, or home, or whatever? I agree that emergencies are different. Otherwise, don't call and drive. It's not as bad as texting and driving, but it still distracts your full attention from your most important job at that moment--driving. I will call at a red light, if I just miss it and I know it's long enough. Turns green, I'm saying bye. And that's only driving the wagon. The scoot, phone's either in my inside (protective riding) jacket pocket, or in my purse in my seat bag. But then, I'm still fairly wet, so I don't even want a radio to distract my attention. >'Kat Those who have a parent, child or spouse in assisted living, hospice or the hospital for starters. I only endorse it for taking or making real emergency calls however yes too many are too addicted to their cell phones. My mother just moved into an Assisted Living Facility and the first few days you sometimes got called back before you were halfway home from responding to the previous call. She didn't want to wait for a helper to walk from the aid station to her apartment or would attempt to do certain things on her own and end up falling. Didn't stop to think that we watching children, working, etc that it would take us 10 minutes to an hour to get there if she needed help at home however 60 seconds to a couple of minutes was too long at the ALF. |
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Post by novaraptor on Dec 9, 2014 12:57:21 GMT -5
Scooter said "I'd suggest anyone try to actually make a product like you are talking about that is durable and looks "factory" and see how much time and money it takes to make one. Then at least double that "cost" to make a profit."
And therein is the promise of "rapid prototypers" and 3d printers.. courtesy of the mars project.. If interested in this kind of tech, there is a homemade CNC project that incorporates the data to replicate itself.
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Post by novaraptor on Dec 9, 2014 15:44:08 GMT -5
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 10, 2014 12:18:37 GMT -5
[/p] Being FLAT, it did NOT like you to turn your head much... LOL! It would try to twist your head off... And when REALLY spinning, the gyroscopic effect gave it a LOT of "grab" in the air, and SERIOUS leverage on your head...
[/quote] Okay, now I have this mental image of Unca Leo being lifted off his chopper and flying away! For Minnie, how's about a ba-ooga horn? Like the purple taxi's? (I know, going from Clarabelle to Captain Kangaroo) >'Kat[/quote][/p]
Kat, gotta go with the squeeze-bulb horn... I'm a die-hard Howdy Doody guy... LOL! And, I found one from Bell, at Wally World that's louder than my factory horn... And it's SOOOO irritating... HeHeHe! I had to go through the entire display to find one that actually worked properly, honking on both the squeeze, AND release, providing the desired "WEE-WAH" sound, not just the "WEE". That is MOST important, as it's like "giving the bird" AND "thumbing your nose" at the same time... LOLOLOL!
I know, I'm incurable...
Leo
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Post by ricardoguitars on Dec 10, 2014 13:09:55 GMT -5
I found a new worst!  pushing your scoot up a gravel hill when it is broken down  I had to push it today, the variator nut gave up, since I live in the woods, the street to get to my house is up a non-paved hill. I bought a locking steel nut (the old one was made out of $&!#*) and now I'm on the road again  |
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Post by zhan on Dec 16, 2014 2:41:43 GMT -5
For me the worst part is riding my scoot from June until September in Phoenix where the temperatures are consistently 110 degrees and up to 120 degrees with vicious monsoons in the evenings. On the plus side, I get to ride year round. So it's a minor complaint really.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 21, 2014 12:17:54 GMT -5
For me the worst part is riding my scoot from June until September in Phoenix where the temperatures are consistently 110 degrees and up to 120 degrees with vicious monsoons in the evenings. On the plus side, I get to ride year round. So it's a minor complaint really. Zhan,
I get the same hot summer weather here in Texas. When I had an air-cooled 150 GY6, I found a mod that really helped... I first installed a cooling-fan-scoop, which helped some. But the plastics blocked the air-flow, putting the scoop in a "vortex" of dead air.
I then made an extension from PVC pipe to place the scoop out into the air-stream. It lowered my oil temp on 100+ days by nearly 20 degrees (lowering it from "marginal" to "safe"). It's an easy mod, and makes a real difference in the oil-temp. Here are some pix from an old post in case you want to try it...
This is one mod that truly DID make a major difference with my 150. If you live in an area where temps don't exceed  or so, it won't make much difference, but over 100, it will take your oil temp back down into the "acceptable" range. The secret is to pull cool air in from BEYOND the "hole in the air" caused by the lower plastics...
I forgot to mention that the white PVC pipe is a female-to-female fitting, since it fit the cooling-shroud better than the slightly smaller pipe... And I wrapped it in chrome tape so it matched the other chrome. It would look fine painted black, or to match the scooter...
Hope this may be of use for you.
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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Post by zhan on Dec 21, 2014 15:40:51 GMT -5
Holy moley! That's one heckuva mod. I'm pretty good at tinkering, but I think all that is beyond my skill level. Wow! Your scoot looks cool though. I love the monster scoot look. That exhaust looks fricken awesome! Man I need to learn how to dig in deeper to my scoot and really trick it out like that. Make a real road warrior scooter.
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pushing your scoot up a gravel hill when it is broken down 
or so, it won't make much difference, but over 100, it will take your oil temp back down into the "acceptable" range. The secret is to pull cool air in from BEYOND the "hole in the air" caused by the lower plastics...