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Post by scooter on Oct 26, 2014 22:54:46 GMT -5
scooter My original setup was just like yours and had the problem. It sounds like you need a more efficient pump or, like you are saying, a different kind of pump altogether. Have you had this problem since the scooter was new? Your scooter sounds really powerful. How many cc's are you at now with that BBK? |
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Post by alleyoop on Oct 27, 2014 0:38:56 GMT -5
In his sig he says he has the 58.5 BBK which translates to 155cc's from 149.6cc's .
Alleyoop
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 27, 2014 0:41:35 GMT -5
scooter My original setup was just like yours and had the problem. It sounds like you need a more efficient pump or, like you are saying, a different kind of pump altogether. Have you had this problem since the scooter was new? Your scooter sounds really powerful. How many cc's are you at now with that BBK? I don't know about since new. It's a 2008 and I just got it a couple of months ago. I'm the 3rd owner. But I got it with only 2k miles on it. In it's stock form, since I've owned it, yes it was doing this. It would cut out at about 45 mph. Ally makes a good point in suggesting we remount our fuel pumps lower than the tank. It's def worth trying. On my scooter that would actually take some doing. I would have to fabricate some sort of custom mount. I'm only at 155 CCs. A good portion of the power I'm producing comes from the A11 cam..seriously this cam opens the valves up almost to their max tolerances. Then having the head ported and polished further helps shovel the go juice through the motor. With the stock jets (125M/40P) on a 30mm carb I was running really lean on initial tuning and testing. |
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Post by scooter on Oct 27, 2014 1:30:28 GMT -5
Ally makes a good point in suggesting we remount our fuel pumps lower than the tank. It's def worth trying. On my scooter that would actually take some doing. I would have to fabricate some sort of custom mount. I'm only at 155 CCs. A good portion of the power I'm producing comes from the A11 cam..seriously this cam opens the valves up almost to their max tolerances. Then having the head ported and polished further helps shovel the go juice through the motor. With the stock jets (125M/40P) on a 30mm carb I was running really lean on initial tuning and testing. Yes, that does sound like a good idea. Mine is about even with the bottom of the tank. I may have to get me one of them fancy cams. Makes the bike sound good too. |
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 27, 2014 1:35:47 GMT -5
Yes, that does sound like a good idea. Mine is about even with the bottom of the tank. I may have to get me one of them fancy cams. Makes the bike sound good too. I'm actually about to open up the exit hole on my muffler. The exhaust from the engine hits the expansion of the muffler (glass pack removed) and is being forced out by the next pulse of gas before it has time to leave the muffler causing a pfft sound as the gas is rushed out of the stock hole. |
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Post by katastroff on Oct 27, 2014 5:55:47 GMT -5
This is how mine is set up: The fuel pump sits on the frame, about the same height as the carb. All of my hoses are as short as possible with a bit of play so I can work on them. The gas tank sits below.
It goes like this: Tank/filter/pump/carb.
I also got a 2 vacuum port intake: 1 on the pump, the other on the carb.
2 vacuum port intake
Never had any issues running like this. Took a long road trip this summer and burned about 8 tank of gas in 3 days. I was riding at WOT most of the time and never had to let go of the throttle because of an empty bowl.
Sometime we cant see the forest because the trees are blocking the view.
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Post by dmartin95 on Nov 2, 2014 11:45:17 GMT -5
Ok, I just ordered a K&N fuel pump. I know a lot of people have linked to the little no name brand fuel pump for under $15.00, but I do not trust no name brand items. This was expensive for an electronic pump of this size. I paid $56.00.... K&N has 4 different mini pump/filter combos. I will list them and provide the link K&N Universal Inline Fuel Pumps K&N Inline Fuel Pump Compatible with diesel, biodiesel, gasoline, E85, methanol, ethanol, alcohol and other fuels Universal design fits most applications Self-priming design provides a quiet running volume Eliminates vapor lock and flooding Fuel filter and installation hardware is included Inline Fuel Pumps K&N Inline Fuel Pumps provide premium quality fuel system hardware with a universal design that fits a wide variety of applications. Compatible with most fuels, this self-regulating 12-volt pump helps prevent vapor lock and flooding. K&N Inline Fuel Pump 81-0400
K&N 81-0400 is a universal inline fuel pump engineered to pump 15 gallons per hour between 1 and 2 psi.K&N Inline Fuel Pump 81-0401 K&N 81-0401 is a universal inline fuel pump engineered to pump 25 gallons per hour between 1.5 and 4 psi. K&N Inline Fuel Pump 81-0402 K&N 81-0402 is a universal inline fuel pump engineered to pump 32 gallons per hour between 4 and 7 psi. K&N Inline Fuel Pump 81-0403 K&N 81-0403 is a universal inline fuel pump engineered to pump 34 gallons per hour between 7 and 10 psi. ----------------------------- I chose the 81-0400 because it's the smallest coming in at only 1~2PSI and upto 15GPH. It was the smallest name brand pump I could find.. Also, the 81-0400 has an internal check valve to help keep the fuel system primed when powered off. 0401 and 0402 do not have the check valve. In addition, you can install the 0400 up to 24" above the tank, the others are only 12. Now, I need to figure out how I'm going to hook this thing up.... |
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Post by xyshannen on Nov 2, 2014 12:03:43 GMT -5
Sounds sweet, can't wait to see the results.
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Post by scooter on Nov 2, 2014 13:20:01 GMT -5
Ok, I just ordered a K&N fuel pump. Now, I need to figure out how I'm going to hook this thing up.... You could use a vacuum operated electrical switch to turn it on and off. I'd look for one that turns on with 1 inch or less of vacuum. That would keep it from running if the ignition switch is left on and the motor is not turning. There are a bunch of them on ebay made for bikes. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Nov 2, 2014 14:45:25 GMT -5
Nice~!
I prefer a standard electrical solenoid energized by a wire that gets +12v when the switch is turned on. the upside is there is no long starter run just to get gas pumped into the fuel bowl - the scooter is charged and ready to go from the first instant. The downside (as mentioned) is the pump runs at all times when the key is "on". As for me I do not mind that - have a radio on my scoot, but have not had it running w/o the scoot running. Anyway, I'm sure a "kill switch" would be easy to de-energize the relay if you wanted to do so manually ... but have not had any reason yet to want that.
My 2 cents.
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Post by dmartin95 on Nov 2, 2014 18:02:06 GMT -5
Nice~! I prefer a standard electrical solenoid energized by a wire that gets +12v when the switch is turned on. the upside is there is no long starter run just to get gas pumped into the fuel bowl - the scooter is charged and ready to go from the first instant. The downside (as mentioned) is the pump runs at all times when the key is "on". As for me I do not mind that - have a radio on my scoot, but have not had it running w/o the scoot running. Anyway, I'm sure a "kill switch" would be easy to de-energize the relay if you wanted to do so manually ... but have not had any reason yet to want that. My 2 cents. Do you have 2 more cents? I need advice on the fuel regulation. This new (K&N) pump does up to 15 gallons per hour, but the scooters stock fuel consumption is only about 1 gallon per hour (if even that)....... I've been told the scooter has a fuel pressure regulator.... Does anyone know how much PSI before it overwhelms this regulator? However, what about the scooter fuel pump itself..... Is it a constant pressure pump? Do you or anyone else know the PSI at fuel pump outlet? This is the info I am desperately seeking..... From what I understand so far about engine vacuum is that the more work your engine is doing, it starts to lose vacuum..... Once you're at WOT, there isn't enough vacuum for the fuel pump to keep working.... |
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Post by dmartin95 on Nov 2, 2014 18:10:59 GMT -5
Sounds sweet, can't wait to see the results. I forgot to mention a while back that after I fixed the vacuum line running from the carb, to the "Tee", before fuel pump, the results..... I took the scoot out for a 18 mile ride and it never cut out at WOT... A few days later, me and wife were riding and she's got about 100lbs on me, it cut out on her just as if I never fixed anything...... I never installed that Mikuni pump yet.... Even though it's a Vacuum operated pump, it doesn't require constant vacuum and is pulse vacuum operated, meaning it needs less vacuum..... I didn't select it just because it's higher quality... It operates differently...... However, I think an electronic pump is the better way to go so I'm not going to have any vacuum operated fuel pumps..... I just need to figure out the whole fuel regulation thing...... |
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 2, 2014 18:16:19 GMT -5
All wife's tale, thousand of scoots are running WOT and not a problem with Vacuum operated fuel pumps even your 250s and 300s, people just don't know how this stuff works. I think I mentioned several times what the problem is on the scoots that are having a problem at wot but it fell on deaf ears. There is a saying you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. Tip for you guys that are going to put on a electric pump and do ride a good distance from where you live. Take the Vacuum pump and vacuum hoses as spares, just in case the battery goes south or the pump burns up.  Alleyoop |
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Post by dmartin95 on Nov 2, 2014 18:46:13 GMT -5
All wife's tale, thousand of scoots are running WOT and not a problem with Vacuum operated fuel pumps even your 250s and 300s, people just don't know how this stuff works. I think I mentioned several times what the problem is on the scoots that are having a problem at wot but it fell on deaf ears. There is a saying you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. Tip for you guys that are going to put on a electric pump and do ride a good distance from where you live. Take the Vacuum pump and vacuum hoses as spares, just in case the battery goes south or the pump burns up. Alleyoop Care to elaborate? Your suggestion did not fall upon deaf ears, I just don't don't see how relocating the pump and porting the gas tank lower will solve the problem..... On one hand you say thousands of scoots have the vacuum operated pumps and work fine, but then you still proceed to offer up a solution..... Irregardless of how many thousand work, mine isn't.... I'm not trying to argue with anyone, especially when no doubt you know way more about this stuff than me....... I just want to fix my wifes scooter.... That's it... A bunch of people have suggested an electronic fuel pump..... Why do you feel the pump will fail? It has a 5 year warranty backed by K&N direct. Anyhow, all that aside, fix or no fix, I'm committed now as I've already paid for the pump.... Now I just need advice on the proper way to hook it up.... Do you have any of the info I'm requesting? Can you help me? You know how the fuel is regulated and what its tolerances are? At what point does it stop regulating due to too much PSI? Rather than telling me it will fail, I hope you'll help me figure out how to hook it up properly. |
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Post by scooter on Nov 2, 2014 20:01:44 GMT -5
Sounds sweet, can't wait to see the results. I forgot to mention a while back that after I fixed the vacuum line running from the carb, to the "Tee", before fuel pump, the results..... I took the scoot out for a 18 mile ride and it never cut out at WOT... A few days later, me and wife were riding and she's got about 100lbs on me, it cut out on her just as if I never fixed anything...... I never installed that Mikuni pump yet.... Even though it's a Vacuum operated pump, it doesn't require constant vacuum and is pulse vacuum operated, meaning it needs less vacuum..... I didn't select it just because it's higher quality... It operates differently...... However, I think an electronic pump is the better way to go so I'm not going to have any vacuum operated fuel pumps..... I just need to figure out the whole fuel regulation thing...... The reason the vacuum drops as you open the throttle is because you are letting in more air. Imagine your throttle plate is the end of a shop vac hose. At idle, you have the tiny tip on the hose, and you can suck a gnat's legs off from across the room. At WOT you have just the hose with no end on it. Lots of air going in but at lower vacuum. These pumps we have on our scoots operate on pulses. Every time your intake sucks in air, the pump's diaphragm is pulled and afterwards released, thousands of times per minute. As you saw in my gauge testing results, a smaller 3 inches of vacuum at 7,000 RPM produces much more fuel pressure than a much larger 11 inches of vacuum at only 4,500 RPM. More small pulses is better than fewer big pulses. I suggested, to Shannen, that one could use a valve to bypass extra fuel and pressure back to the tank, but he says a regulator will do the job. My tests show that 4psig of fuel pressure works on the stand at 8,000 RPM on my 150cc. There are some adjustable ones on ebay for under $30, like this one that comes with a gauge www.ebay.com/itm/LIGHT-WEIGHT-ADJUSTABLE-BLUE-FUEL-PRESSURE-REGULATOR-0-140-PSI-GAUGE-HOSE-KIT-/150984543863I'm sure they come in all kinds and prices and you can find one that works well. Here's a holley carb one with no gauge www.ebay.com/itm/Quick-Fuel-Carburetor-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-30-803-/151459407331 |
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
