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Post by alleyoop on Sept 14, 2014 20:40:02 GMT -5
The needle in this carb is not adjustable. Thought of putting a few washers in there tpo raise it up, but the washers I had were too big to fit inside the carb housing. Checked my main jet "collection" .... had a 120 in the carb, thought I had a 125 -- but I do not. Tried a 130, but the problem just gets worse - WOT is OK up to about 4,500 RPM and then it falters (compared to 5,000 RPM with the 120). Still, with the 130, does OK if I only use 3/4 throttle (no faltering all the way to 7,000 --- which I don't try to go over. And if I do WOT, let it falter at 4,500 - then decrease to 3/4 throttle the engine climbs rapidly to 7K. DO I NEED SOMETHING BIGGER THAN 130  ? To much air, use a thick sock something that air will not get through it and or cover more of the air filter. 3/4 throttle your running on the pilot and the needle not the MAIN JET. TWIST THE THROTTLE HALF WAY and see how it revs up. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 21:06:56 GMT -5
At partial throttle (1/2 way or something ... maybe a little more) there is a ***slight*** hitch at about 5,500 or 6,000, but it's just a slight lessening of the rapid climb in the RPMs, for maybe 1/3 second, then it resumes it's quick climb up as far as I will let the RPMs go &k or 8K). Seems not perfect but almost perfect at 1/2+ throttle.
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 21:12:32 GMT -5
I don't know what psi my elec pump is, but it works fine. Not a solution to whatever is going on im my case, and I think I'll use it on my Goldwing instead of the scooter..
Anyway, don't think the vacuum fuel pump - though I think it is a silly, klugy idea - is my problem at all. My scoot rapidly climbs to 6,000 rpm, then falters. I don't think the time to climb - a secnd or so - is enough for any serious amount of fuel to be drained from the bowl. So, presuming THAT'S the case, the vacuum pump working or not working isn't a factor.
As for me - I expect to eventually, with the help of the geniuses here, get my scoot dialed in. At that point I do not anticipate messing around with it again. Oh, maybe a idle mixture adjustment or two - but that's not a problem with the screw easily accessible. I do NOT expect to be having to take the carb on and off.
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 14, 2014 21:20:16 GMT -5
Did not want to say anything but it has nothing to do with the carb bowl getting empty of fuel your fuel pump is fine.
It all has to do with air and fuel on the top end. I would tell you to put back the 24mm and easely get everything running right but that is up to you. If you want to still mess around with the 30mm, RIGHT NOW you need to cut a lot more air from the air filter. OR you can try a bigger main jet but I would not recommend it because then everything will be to much for the motor.
my .02
Alleyoop
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 21:28:21 GMT -5
Alley --
No need to be "polite" -- I know I know just about zero and realize by now how much of an expert you are. This for me si 100% about being grateful for your big time help.
I'd put the 24mm back in ... but i think something is wrong with it. If you remember, we did EVERYTHING trying to get it working - up jet, down jet on and on an don, to the point where I could tell how really frustrated you had become and how ready i was to push the thing off a cliff. My WAG is the carb is still dirty or something and would need a real ultrasonic cleaning or something. That might explain why it sudden;y went from OK to not ok, and why the idle speed didn't change with needle screw adjustments, and why i just couldn't get it even half way working.
And this carb seem so much closer to being Ok --- certainly seems to spin the motor faster up RPM --- and so I'm hoping to figure what is still bad and fix it.
Either that or I'll have to buy another new 24mm ..........
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 14, 2014 21:37:37 GMT -5
Well in your spare time you can clean out the 24mm, If the fuel ratio screw did nothing on it that means it is clogged the pilot jet or the passage and or the tiny pilot jet outlets by the buffterfly. Here is how to clean them out, get a SPRAY CAN OF CARB CLEANER it comes with a long thin straw stick the straw in the pilot jet hole and spray. When you spray hold the butterfly open a little so you can see all the tiny outlets. Spray should come out of those tiny outlets. If not get a needle or pin and poke the holes and spray to clear them. In the mean time BLOCK MORE AIR FROM THE AIR FILTER on the 30mm carb. Tape it if you have to just wrap some tape around it and try it if still to much air wrap another strip of tape around it and so on until you get the right mixture to fuel. Alleyoop    |
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 21:57:53 GMT -5
Did that before. You sent me your instructions and one night i took the carb apart, jets out, got cleaner and sprayed and sprayed. So, if there is something in a passageway it's I guess pretty stuck --- maybe ultrasound would free it; I don't know.
Will tape up the Uni.
Just so i learn - why is it not recommended to get a larger main to achieve the correct mixture? Will it blow up the engine with that much air/fuel?
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 14, 2014 22:27:12 GMT -5
You can get a bigger main jet and try it, It won't blow up your motor what it MIGHT do is just flood it and it will still BOG but this time because of to much fuel. A Motor will bog and fall flat on it's face in either situation TO MUCH FUEL OR NOT ENOUGH. The motor can only GULP SO MUCH AIR AND FUEL, it all depends on the displacement more displacement it can take more fuel and air. But your only at little less than 170ccs. Mine is at 62mm bbk 182ccs and it takes a 122.5 main jet and a #38 pilot. Millsc just built one with a 61mm bbk and he put on a 30mm carb and could not get it to run right so he took it off and put in a 26mm carb. When you cleaned it did spray come out of the tiny outlets by the butterfly. If they did , did you take out the Fuel Ratio Screw and did you find a tiny washer and a tiny O_RING? The tiny o-rint might be stuck in the passage. Alleyoop And if the o-ring is missing it is letting in air.  |
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 22:38:54 GMT -5
I did not even look for the oring.
Yes, cleaner came out the small holes a bit. There was a lot of backspray, but it DID come out the holes.
One time a few weeks ago the needle screw on the 24 actually FELL OUT while I was riding. Got home and was lucky - both the screw and the spring had fallen onto the crankcase and were lodged under the starter motor.
Maybe the o-ring either fell out also (and I didn't know to look for it), or got sucked in, or damaged, or whatever.
Will try to see tomorrow.
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 14, 2014 22:43:32 GMT -5
well if it did so did the tiny washer fall out. The o-ring then the washer then the spring.
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Post by xyshannen on Sept 14, 2014 23:02:23 GMT -5
Ally please always feel free to correct me as I'm still learning also. You two are much further in diagnosing this problem than I am. My scoot doesn't do this wile sitting at idle, it only does it wile under load going over 60 mph. Because I'm not too worried about going that fast I haven't really dug in to trying to figure this out. I'm just offering what has been told to me to look at. rcq92130 Thank you for the tip on mounting the carb. I just did what you described and it did work. Both the stock and performance intakes pushed the carb too close to that convolutin cross bar. Cutting a piece of small water heater tube into a coupling is the ticket to getting the bigger carb on. Now I have to rejet the 30mm but like Ally suggests I may have to go back to the smaller carb. At least I can use the new intake on the old carb now. |
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 14, 2014 23:19:18 GMT -5
Just make sure the NEW intake is the same size as the opening on the Head. If the New intake is bigger then you have a lip all around the head intake and will mess up the flow of air and fuel. I do not have a picture of it to show you but as an example take a nickel and a dime the dime is the HEAD INTAKE(smaller) and the nickel(bigger) is the bigger intake. So if the new Intake hole matchs the Head intake hole your ok, the new intake hole can be smaller but not bigger.
Alleyoop
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 14, 2014 23:24:09 GMT -5
Ally please always feel free to correct me as I'm still learning also. You two are much further in diagnosing this problem than I am. My scoot doesn't do this wile sitting at idle, it only does it wile under load going over 60 mph. Because I'm not too worried about going that fast I haven't really dug in to trying to figure this out. I'm just offering what has been told to me to look at. rcq92130 Thank you for the tip on mounting the carb. I just did what you described and it did work. Both the stock and performance intakes pushed the carb too close to that convolutin cross bar. Cutting a piece of small water heater tube into a coupling is the ticket to getting the bigger carb on. Now I have to rejet the 30mm but like Ally suggests I may have to go back to the smaller carb. At least I can use the new intake on the old carb now. Just make sure the NEW intake is the same size as the opening on the Head. If the New intake is bigger then you have a lip all around the head intake and will mess up the flow of air and fuel. I do not have a picture of it to show you but as an example take a nickel and a dime the dime is the HEAD INTAKE(smaller) and the nickel(bigger) is the bigger intake. So if the new Intake hole matchs the Head intake hole your ok, the new intake hole can be smaller but not bigger. Alleyoop XYSHANEN, do this to find out what the motor needs when that happens: Back off the throttle when that happens about 1/8-1/4 of an inch and HOLD IT THERE: Now pay attention to what the motor does: A. If it speeds up it is LEAN needs more fuel B. If it just settles down it is to RICH to much fuel. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 15, 2014 18:39:57 GMT -5
EUREKA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NEW COIL CAME TODAY AND IT ***ALMOST*** RESOLVED THE PROBLEMS!!!!!!!!MOAT - YOU WERE THE ONE WHO FIRST CAME UP WITH THE 'ELECTRICAL' THEORY! YOU WERE RIGHT, MAN!Took a 15 mile ride this afternoon and, at first, the only problem I noticed was popping on deceleration. Good pick up and no hesitation.
On the last leg I had 2 steep hills to climb and on the first had to throttle back because the engine was bogged down --- think I noticed a little of that on the second hill also (but was already at a lower throttle and the scoot finished the hill w/o really bogging. So .... still some tuning to do ... lean, I guess ....
Have a larger exhaust manifold to have welded on in place of the stock straw-sized pipe. Maybe tomorrow. Will then see what can be done about tuning.
THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO HUNG THERE AND HELPED SO MUCH, ESPECIALLY YOU KNOW WHO! Really, really appreciate the help!
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 15, 2014 19:18:36 GMT -5
FANTASTIC, ride safe
Alleyoop
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
