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Post by ramblinman on Mar 30, 2014 22:07:46 GMT -5
And what is this the Clutch engages at 5000 RPMS!! WOW!! Talk about sling shots. Alleyoop rolf... yep, i don't like it either. it was a very expensive clutch too. i would have changed the springs long ago if i could have found one that fit. it does have three blue springs but they are so stiff you'd think they were red painted blue. |
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Post by alleyoop on Mar 30, 2014 22:31:08 GMT -5
What clutch did you get? give me the link of where you bought it. I maybe able to find the springs for it. I know the springs that everyone sells will not fit the NCY clutch they are to long.
Alleyoop
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Post by ramblinman on Mar 30, 2014 23:56:19 GMT -5
What clutch did you get? give me the link of where you bought it. I maybe able to find the springs for it. I know the springs that everyone sells will not fit the NCY clutch they are to long. Alleyoop originally i tried to swap the 3 springs with the stock clutch but the stock springs are longer. i'm selling the scooter though so i don't plan to do any more work to it. guess i could pass the info on to the buyer if he wants to install them. |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 31, 2014 9:06:22 GMT -5
Just an F.Y.I cold starts should raise your rpms LESS than 1000 rpms from your set idle usually 500-700 rpms higher than your set IDLE. At that setting your Rear Wheel should NOT spin. For a Normal CVT setup the clutch will usually engage around 2500 rpms. If starting it cold it IDLES so high that the wheel is spinning at a pretty good clip that tells me it is running LEAN off the pilot jet. As far as the checking the plug for color that is very deciptive because it all depends how the test was done and when. The plug color will change from low to high throttle position I go by the sound of the motor the way it is running and RPMS. Now a Tach Is very important it is your crystal ball, the RPM gauge it does not matter if it is off or not you should know how the motor runs and the speed when the tach is registering at a certain number. If you know this then the tach becomes your fortune cookie, it will tell you if something is not right and going south. But all one can do is bring a problem to the front, what someone does with it is their choice. And what is this the Clutch engages at 5000 RPMS!! WOW!! Talk about sling shots. Alleyoop
I'm changing my tires to "P" rated ones in the next couple of weeks. The dealership will do it for me and I'll have their tech give Minnie a good going over while she's there... This fellow is dynamite... A really nice Italian fellow who is a master with the Italian scoots in particular, and Kymco and SYM in general. If anything is amiss, he'll find it. I do suspect my clutch fully engages at a "lower-than-optimum" rpm. I agree on the tach! The factory "bar-graph" tach however is very hard to read. It climbs in 500rpm increments, and so fluctuates quite a bit, especially during warmup. I've been riding SO many years that I can pretty much tell when the rpms are "right", and this scoot seems "spot-on" from startup to highway speeds. The clutch is just a little "eager'... LOL! According to the tach, my normal idle is between 1,500 and 2,000. Again, the bars "come and go" as the engine revs or slows, jumping in those pesky 500rpm "bars". Stone-cold fast-idle shows between 3,000 and 3,500rpm which would put it around 1,500rpm higher than normal idle (considering that bar-graph 500rpm "fudge-factor"). The clutch begins to engage around 2,000 to 2,500rpm, and is fully-engaged at 3,000rpm. Just like with a typical car, as soon as the thermostat opens, the idle slows down to normal. From my old karting days, I tend to like a centrifugal clutch that engages at a higher rpm. It REALLY allows a "jackrabbit" start if desired, and I like the snappy yet controllable startups from a stand-still. However, this 250 has enough torque to drive fine, even though it begins rolling well below the torque "sweet-spot". From my old Harley days, I still enjoy the "luxury" of a little extra torque. My dealer (Moxie Scooters) has been absolutely first-rate for me, so I'll have them give Minnie a complete checkup while she's in for new tires. It is really nice to have a B&M dealership that CARES about their customers, and is friendly and helpful. My Wife can't drive anymore, so Moxie is giving me a loaner scooter for the day, when I drop Minnie off for the tire-changes... I'll bet it will be a new 300cc injected one too... A great way to tempt the potential buyer to trade up! Too pricey for me though... Nah... They KNOW my budget... The loaner will likely be a used Chinese 50cc... LOL! Gotta love 'em though. I have spent a lot of happy time there just shooting the breeze about scooters. They're a little reminiscent of the vintage Harley dealers of my youth. Thanks for the advice as always!Leo |
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Post by novaraptor on Mar 31, 2014 13:51:23 GMT -5
Leo, you just kinda got bit by an old motorcycle habit, that of starting the bike while not on it. I have two friends that have dropped their bikes in the last 10 months that way. One was a new triumph Thruxton and the other was a 2012 Victory. On the Triumph, the rider had left it in gear when he parked. On the Victory, the shift indicator light said it was in neutral. It lied.
Both riders like to lean across the bikes and start them, so they can warm up while they gear up. Only real damage in both cases was a busted mirror on the Triumph and red cheeks on the owner of the Victory, but they have both learned not to pop the clutch lever on startup.
But great point on loading up with the scooter running on the center stand. It occurs to me that if you have very little clearance anyway, it might make it very hard to get the scooter off the center stand when loaded. Hey, that's how we learn..
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Post by nulldevice on Mar 31, 2014 22:41:46 GMT -5
What is with all this warm up business? Warming up an engine up by sitting and letting it idle is a waste of fuel and riding time.
I worked in an engine assembly plant. Let me describe what they do to a freshly manufactured engine.
They mount it to the hot start stand and connect what ever it needs to run.
They turn the motor over a few times to prime the oil pump
They start the motor and give the motor a few seconds to build oil pressure
They then wind it up to maximum RPM and hold it there for a minute or so
They let it idle for a few seconds to see if the idle is stable
They ship it
Start it, ride off moderately for a few minutes. Have fun.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Apr 1, 2014 10:01:34 GMT -5
What is with all this warm up business? Warming up an engine up by sitting and letting it idle is a waste of fuel and riding time. I worked in an engine assembly plant. Let me describe what they do to a freshly manufactured engine. They mount it to the hot start stand and connect what ever it needs to run. They turn the motor over a few times to prime the oil pump They start the motor and give the motor a few seconds to build oil pressure They then wind it up to maximum RPM and hold it there for a minute or so They let it idle for a few seconds to see if the idle is stable They ship it Start it, ride off moderately for a few minutes. Have fun.
I understand... Back in the stone-age of Milwaukee-made Harleys and Detroit-made cars, the metal was crude, and the fitting was even "cruder"... LOL! Brand-new, these were 50K mile engines at best, and just driving off on a cold engine once might shorten its already limited life by thousands of miles. On a cold engine, the rods and mains would clatter for the first minute of running. The valve-lifters would clatter until the engine was totally warm. Yeah, the quality and fitting was simply THAT poor back then. Not intentional poor quality, modern technology just didn't exist back then. I know in my heart that modern vehicles don't really need a warm-up, and they last forever... But old habits are hard to break. The main reason I warm up the scoot is just so I don't roll it off the stand, then maybe get stuck sitting at the parking-lot exit holding the brake on while the clutch drags. Yesterday, I carefully noted EVERYTHING upon cold-starting old "Minnie Mouse". That impressive, but not-so-practical "bar-graph" tach is actually marked in 1,000rpm increments, 1 to 10K, not 500 as I had mentioned earlier. Upon starting, the engine runs up to 3,000 on the graph (which could be anywhere between 3,000 and 3,999rpm) and the rear wheel spins at 8mph. (I rode it off the stand to check THAT speed... LOL!) As soon as the thermostat opens, the idle drops to the "1,000rpm" bar (which could be anywhere between 1,000 and 1,999rpm). My ear tells me it's about 1,800rpm. My clutch fully engages at around 3,000rpm. So... my only problem is that my clutch is a little "eager"... The whole warm-up scenario is similar to my old Chinese 150, except that it had so little power that the scooter would not take off at fast-idle. And, the air-cooled engine came off fast-idle much quicker than the water-cooled 250 does. At any rate, it's just good sense to not run ANY CVT-tranny cycle on the stand unless you're right there by the bars to grab the brake. From now on, I'll load the groceries FIRST... Then get on and start the engine. LESSON LEARNED. This season, I may put in some heavier clutch-springs to provide a higher engagement rpm. With the 250cc torque, it's not really necessary, but I wouldn't mind a little higher rpm takeoff. I'm just enjoying spending my time RIDING instead of WRENCHING for the moment... LOL! This old Kymco to me, feels Cadillac-smooth and Kevlar-bulletproof, compared to my old 150. I enjoyed my Chinese 150, and learned more about wrenching than I ever wanted to... but riding this aging, Taiwan-made 250, after the Chinese-made 150, is like going from a worn-out Yugo, to a new BMW... Yeah, it's THAT much better!I can only IMAGINE what a brand-new fuel-injected, 4-valve 300 would be like! Ride safe!Leo in Texas |
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Post by JerryScript on Apr 1, 2014 15:41:51 GMT -5
I usually start it while sitting on it, and then put on my helmet and gloves, turn on my MP3 player and select a tune, check my mirrors and headlight, by then the enricher is disengaging and I'm ready to ride off. I used to do the same on my Honda CB550F, though I selected a radio station not an MP3, old habits are hard to break.
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Post by nulldevice on Apr 1, 2014 18:07:10 GMT -5
I can only IMAGINE what a brand-new fuel-injected, 4-valve 300 would be like! Read more: itistheride.boards.net/thread/5578/old-biker-learn-cvt?page=2&scrollTo=64044#ixzz2xg5jl6U9I rode with one who had a scooter of that nature. He didn't have the comfort of the Burgman and TMAX scooters for that 375 mile day, but he had no problem staying with us on the super slab sections or in the steep hills and sharp curves of SE Ohio. What I have noticed is that as the scooters I bought kept getting bigger and heavier, along with the speed and long duration comfort they became less and less of a scooter and more and more like a motorcycle with an automatic transmission, under seat storage, and a step through frame. My TMAX weighs almost 500 pounds. They call that a scooter? ROFL!  In many ways I still miss the 250cc chinoscoot I had. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Apr 2, 2014 15:23:14 GMT -5
Just an F.Y.I cold starts should raise your rpms LESS than 1000 rpms from your set idle usually 500-700 rpms higher than your set IDLE. At that setting your Rear Wheel should NOT spin. For a Normal CVT setup the clutch will usually engage around 2500 rpms. If starting it cold it IDLES so high that the wheel is spinning at a pretty good clip that tells me it is running LEAN off the pilot jet. As far as the checking the plug for color that is very deciptive because it all depends how the test was done and when. The plug color will change from low to high throttle position I go by the sound of the motor the way it is running and RPMS. Now a Tach Is very important it is your crystal ball, the RPM gauge it does not matter if it is off or not you should know how the motor runs and the speed when the tach is registering at a certain number. If you know this then the tach becomes your fortune cookie, it will tell you if something is not right and going south. But all one can do is bring a problem to the front, what someone does with it is their choice. And what is this the Clutch engages at 5000 RPMS!! WOW!! Talk about sling shots. Alleyoop Not that unusual. Offhand, a Burgman 400 doesn't fully engage until 4500. |
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
