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Post by larry001964 on Dec 8, 2013 19:05:53 GMT -5
I'm not altogether sure i would trust the engineering specs, After all is your speedo accurate ? For most of us not so much.
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Post by earlwb on Dec 8, 2013 19:46:18 GMT -5
Well there have been some folks who rode 50cc scooters across the USA, and if I remember some people did ride some 125cc and 150cc scooters across the USA too. Now they had a support crew following along with them and extra scooters and spare parts too. They did have some break downs along the way, but it wasn't a show stopper to fix the scooters. If I remember one group went across the USA using Kymco 50cc scooters. They mainly did it for the company to show how reliable the scooters are.
You ought to try some long distance test rides and build up to longer distances in order to get a feel for it. As others have mentioned it does get pretty tiring and you wind up being quite exhuasted in some cases too.
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Post by nulldevice on Dec 8, 2013 21:04:36 GMT -5
As you design your trailer, keep in mind bicycle laws don't apply to motorcycles except for physics. I don't think using bicycle wheels to tow behind your scooter-licensed-as-a-motorcycle will work for very long. Averaging 40 MPH is a lot faster than a bicycle and the shock loads from bumps is going to be a lot higher too. A two inch deep pothole or a sharp suburban curb is going to destroy a tire and possibly a wheel too. Been there, done that. Don't forget you will need to get it past your DMV to put a license plate on it too. Easy enough in Ohio, but your state is different I am sure. Check out this thread for ideas. link |
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Post by phssthpok on Dec 8, 2013 21:18:53 GMT -5
Shock loads, and durability are the main reasons I planned on using 'mountain bike' wheels. They generally have stronger spokes, and 'meatier' tires, and at 24" outer diameter, the hub-speed will be less as compared to a 20" BMX (or smaller) wheel.
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Post by nulldevice on Dec 9, 2013 0:26:44 GMT -5
Hub speed is not an issue. Unless you are going to put a suspension on it, the only suspension travel you have is between the pavement and the rim. Your first pothole, driveway entrance, or any other sharp pavement edge is likely to destroy the tire, tube, and if severe enough it will take out the wheel rim as well. Been there, done that, with a wheel and tire from a small Honda dirt bike.
The energy involved with speed is not linear. You are hoping to average 40 MPH. A bike rider can average 10? mph or so. The bike wheels are designed for the lower speeds and stresses. You are going four to five times faster and the energies involved in a bump will be 16 to 25 times greater. I suggest spare tires, tubes, an air pump, and perhaps a spare wheel with you if you go the bike tire and wheel route. You'll probably need them -- I needed them, and didn't have them.
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Post by phssthpok on Dec 9, 2013 8:33:00 GMT -5
While admittedly the 'sharp edge' of a curb or pothole is not the same as 'rough' off road terrain, have you SEEN some of the jumps (and landings) those competitive mountain-bikers do? (and yes, I understand that most modern MB's do have suspensions now...but that wasn't always the case, and they are typically carrying twice the load I intend too)
The thought of a suspension has crossed my mind though. It would add complexity, cost, and weight, and I think I can figure something out but it may just be simpler, lighter, and less expensive to carry a spare wheel.
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Post by ramblinman on Dec 9, 2013 9:47:53 GMT -5
think i would go with a single wheel design. perhaps something like this:  seems like a one wheel trailer would be a smoother ride, especially through turns. |
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Post by fugaziiv on Dec 9, 2013 9:50:51 GMT -5
Felt like weighing in on this one... First off, I'm a pretty avid mountain biker, and you should really check out the costs of the wheelsets that that make up a high quality, durable trail bike. I feel cheap wheels will "taco" and bend out of shape in no time at street speed, since I don't have any issue destroying a cheap wheel on dirt trails, and that is with suspension on my bike. Also, when you see the bikers doing the insane jumps, pay close attention to just how much suspension those bikes have. I'll give you a hint, it's sometimes north of a foot of travel in the rear and usually at least 6 inches in front, normally more. This is A LOT... More like motocross specifications for comparison's sake. But mostly, the biggest issue will be the heat that generates from sustained speed on tarmac. Bicycle tires are not designed to cope with this single aspect, and I think that will be where the highest probability of failure will occur. My recommendation would be to spec out some cheap scooter rims and put some street rubber on them. You'll probably find that this will be a lower cost option overall compared to the bicycle route for a trip that long. All of this being said, have you looked at the Scooter Cannonball? www.scootercannonball.com/ Matt |
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Post by JerryScript on Dec 9, 2013 16:50:21 GMT -5
Any essential item you remove has a chance of being damaged or lost. It's the freakish events that you don't plan for that can take you out. Dropping or kicking the oil plug down a drain (happens from time to time in shops too), stripping the head when draining your oil or having the head damaged by road debris, or maybe damaging the threads. You should also carry extra screws for the body panels, they are easily lost. I was a mechanic in the US Army back in the late 80's, stationed in Germany. When we went on field training, we had a complete deuce and half full of repair parts, we could have built an entire truck on the spot. Even so, there was always something you needed that you didn't have on hand. If something does happen on your trip, it's sure to happen when you are far away from a shop with the part you need, that's just the way Murphy made it! |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Dec 9, 2013 17:55:59 GMT -5
While admittedly the 'sharp edge' of a curb or pothole is not the same as 'rough' off road terrain, have you SEEN some of the jumps (and landings) those competitive mountain-bikers do? (and yes, I understand that most modern MB's do have suspensions now...but that wasn't always the case, and they are typically carrying twice the load I intend too) The thought of a suspension has crossed my mind though. It would add complexity, cost, and weight, and I think I can figure something out but it may just be simpler, lighter, and less expensive to carry a spare wheel. Suspension would be simple enough: a simple leaf spring setup from an old boat or jet-ski trailer, maybe? If you're a welder/fabricator, here's an idea: grab an AXLE from someone junking a small trailer, narrow it to fit, and simply use little 4.00-8, 4.00-10, or 4.80-12 trailer tires. |
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Post by scootnwinn on Dec 9, 2013 18:05:10 GMT -5
I predict trailer failure. The weight of any object exponentially increases as speed increases. A tire and rim barely able to support speeds of 30 mph and a weight around 150-200 will not do well with 60-70 at 45-50. use scooter parts like they said... I wouldn't want 70 pounds of unpredictable mass behind me on a bike that strictly forbids trailering in the owner's manual...
BTW 6 gallons of fuel might not weigh much but it will slosh about in ways your passenger wouldn't. Besides all that on long trips short fuel stops are your friend...
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Post by larry001964 on Dec 9, 2013 19:55:41 GMT -5
I predict trailer failure. The weight of any object exponentially increases as speed increases. A tire and rim barely able to support speeds of 30 mph and a weight around 150-200 will not do well with 60-70 at 45-50. use scooter parts like they said... I wouldn't want 70 pounds of unpredictable mass behind me on a bike that strictly forbids trailering in the owner's manual... BTW 6 gallons of fuel might not weigh much but it will slosh about in ways your passenger wouldn't. Besides all that on long trips short fuel stops are your friend... Well I'm thinking roughly 2 to 3 hours seat time before refill, I know a short break was a blessing when i was riding long distances... Used to ride  miles a day one way to work then miles back.. Would often stop at a midpoint gas station, top off, use the restroom, grab a drink then go again.. |
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Post by phssthpok on Dec 10, 2013 10:20:25 GMT -5
This thread has taken a hard left turn from 'I wonder if it's possible to ride a 150cc across the whole danged country' to 'ZOMG!! I'm building a trailer!'.  Remember folks, this is still just a mental exercise to determine if it's feasible. As it is, I found out/confirmed last night that the clutch on the scoot really is well and truly borked (yeah...I haven't ridden much lately). I got the scoot fired up for it's monthly constitutional, and just ran it up and down the street to give it a stretch. Back at the gently sloped driveway, the scoot (at idle) was trying to move forward up the hill, and had some funny squeaking noises coming from the CVT, so I popped off the CVT cover...little metal bits all over inside the housing.(On the bright side, I noted that the shop the PO took it to installed a Gates belt, which is reassuring). So now My current dilemma is deciding whether to spend a LOT of money that I really can't afford to (clutch, true 115 variator, 1500contra spring), or just a LITTLE money, that I still can't really afford to (just the clutch).  The the mechanic in me says "It's a sensuous repair!.... SENSUOUS in dair', might as well replace those other things too!". The penny pincher in me says 'It's not necessary to replace all three at the same time...the CVT cover comes off easy enough...it's not like replacing a water pump while you have the whole front of the engine apart to change the cam.'' 'But..Improved mileage..lower RPM (variator)! Better takeoff power-band (contra-spring)!' 'Cost/Benefit analysis...How long would the gas savings take to offset the increased up-front cost, and how much of that fuel savings would be surrendered to the better take off power-band?' GAAAAH!!!  |
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Post by nulldevice on Dec 10, 2013 12:52:39 GMT -5
Some of us have travelled on our scooters, some of us have built our own trailers, and some of us have even built their own scooters. The ZOMG! you are hearing is your interpretation of the voices of experience telling you things you don't want to hear which are mostly aimed at your trailer ideas, and who are truly trying to help you avoid setting yourself up for failure. Really, the biggest clinker I see is the six gallon gas tank and possibly the over optimistic average speed. Do a Google search for 3 gallon outboard fuel tank. There are interesting shapes with possibilities out there. The weight issue becomes manageable and the trailer issue goes away. Some may even fit on the foot board between your knees and feet. By the way: Do you know what you are getting into? It is really empty out there. I have driven through several flyover states and seen the following The Interstate exits that exit onto gravel roads (South Dakota) The state maintained driveways to gates in the fences along the Interstate that open onto dirt roads (Montana, Kansas, Nebraska) The signs on main state and federal highways that say things like next gasoline  miles (Wyoming, Colorado) The maps that indicate cell phone service only within a few miles of the Interstate highways (most places west of Illinois) |
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Post by ltdhpp on Dec 10, 2013 12:54:25 GMT -5
If part of your adventure is getting stuck who knows where for who knows how long, and having who knows what happen to you, go for it.
How many miles do you have on your scooter? Have you put 3,000 on it yourself yet? How many issues did you have with it in those 3,000 miles? Both my Chinese scoots averaged one can't-ride-it failure per 1,000 miles, all after a thorough PDI.
Some of those could have been cured if I had kept the simple, cheap parts that were the problems in the scooter, but carrying one of every replacement part with you is going to eat up your cargo room...
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miles a day one way to work then 
miles (Wyoming, Colorado)
