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Post by rockynv on Nov 9, 2013 17:44:42 GMT -5
Remember that Piaggio has not given Zongshen a license to their designs but has only contracted with them to assemble some of their entry level bikes and make some parts. The bikes produced are Piaggio branded bikes built to Piaggio standards using Piaggio designs and engineering under Piaggio's supervision for Piaggio to sell through their own dealer network. Parts and bikes that fail quality assurance are supposed to be destroyed and not relabeled and sold under another name either.
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Post by DaveC on Nov 9, 2013 18:39:40 GMT -5
Wasn't it just a few years ago that Japan took US made products and made em 'better' and cheaper?
What's the difference now?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 18:51:33 GMT -5
Its a free market. The cream will rise. I think the Japanese and such need to get off their high horse and see that theres a new player and they need to lower prices to compete. Liquid cooled fuel injection is not worth 1500.00 bucks! Want to sell me a Honda Or Yamaha? Lower your price. Simple. I had money to buy anything I wanted and looked hard at the Zuma because i dont like any Honda look. I just couldnt justify the scooter at that price. If my BMS was the same price as the Zuma I still would have bought the BMS because these guys tend to rely on their reputation for reliability and not on their innovative designs. Good lord look at the Civic! Stagnant for years.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 10, 2013 2:27:09 GMT -5
When the norm for a Chinese scooter is for it to last for 50,000 to 100,000 miles, carry close to 500 lbs, output around 1 hp for each 10 cc, have a 6,000 mile service schedule for oil changes and a 12,000 mile service schedule between valve adjustments along with all Chinese people having access to safe food, clean water, medical care, equal access to education, fair wages and a safe work environment then it will be time to compare prices. When that time comes we may find that Chinese products will no longer be all that affordable just like it happened with Japanese products.
Zongshen is making better bikes using what they are learning from Piaggio however their prices are already going up due to what it costs to attain that level of quality. The Chinese price advantage will eventually evaporate and then they will have to compete on core engineering and not just flashy paint and fancy stickers.
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Post by spandi on Nov 10, 2013 2:43:06 GMT -5
Most definitely the "free ride" of cheap Chinese products will end. Their economy, living standards and worker safety will increase to match anything in the west. There have already been protests for higher wages and benefits, and as repressive as the government is, it will have to modify it's polices as it evolves to accommodate change.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 5:47:24 GMT -5
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Post by scootnwinn on Nov 10, 2013 11:19:16 GMT -5
Red you are out of touch with reality. Sorry comparing us to them doesn't work. I am an OSHA compliance officer for our company and in our country I find that workers generally choose not to be safe though they have the right to be. In China they have no rights, at all.
Let us also remember that by and large the Japanese earned their reputation on the race track and through innovation. Did they make a cruiser? Yes, but a reliable liquid cooled one that put out twice the power per cc of the Harley. What really changed the motorcycling world was an innovative marketing plan backed by solid reliable bikes unlike anything else on the market. When the CB750 was released in '69 the world was changed. It wasn't a copy of anything and nothing could touch it. Fuel injection and water cooling not worth $1500? How much is it worth? How much is a staff of innovative forward thinking engineers and their support staff coming up with innovative new designs to keep you safer and more efficient worth? We need to be very careful and be sure we are seeing the big picture...
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Post by rockynv on Nov 11, 2013 3:21:15 GMT -5
Yep the Japanese did it by embracing Dr Demming who American business branded a traitor when hetaught them statistical analysis and to include their workers in the design and quality assurance process.
Then they blossomed and started engineering innovative technology that surpassed most everything else in the world. We had 8track while they brought compact cassette. We had Amperex video tape on something like 2 inch wide spools which they encorporated into a more convenient compact cassette tape. Took automotive engineering to the next level leaving the world to play catch up.
All this while promoting a safe and fair work place along with decent living conditions.
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