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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 25, 2013 0:50:10 GMT -5
This is sorta funny, and enjoyable...Those who've followed my posts on getting a "new" used '07 Kymco Grand Vista 250 know I've ridden a Chinese 150 for six years. Now I don't know much about the liquid-cooled 250's and I'm learning. I love the scooter, and was glad it had several common parts recently replaced including clutch, belt, tires and muffler. Now, the actual muffler lives hidden beneath a shiny chrome cover (factory-stock trim).In this pic, you can see the bone-stock appearing muffler trim... The construction of this scoot is a LOT different from the Chinese 150.  screenshot windowsI don't know just WHAT a 250cc is supposed to sound like, but THIS one is quiet as a mouse at idle, but open it up past 1/4 throttle and she really snarls. Upon further inspection, beneath the factory trim is indeed, the new muff, which turns out to be a high-performance item, and pretty much a straight-through glass-pack. (I did pull the seat-pan and make sure there were no air-leaks contributing to the raspy howl)... Nope... all the growl comes out the end of the tailpipe, and it's pretty sweet! Hmmm... The engine runs GREAT, and anything beyond creeping away from a stop at near-idle sounds for all the world like a '60's Brit "thumper". Heck, I've ALWAYS liked thumpers...I do need to check the plug just to be sure it's not running lean. But doggone, this little 250 not only runs strong, but she really barks. It brings back some fun memories of 50 years ago, and gets some wide-eyed looks from fellow 2-wheel jockeys (especially at highway speed) where it's downright NASTY-LOUD! Music to these old biker's ears...250cc is not exactly a monster motor... LOL! But, this one gives a most satisfying shove in the "seat of your pants" from standing start all the way to about 70 mph. AND... It's fun to hear it SOUND as strong as it RUNS. With those big, adorable "mouse-ear" mirrors, rodent-like nose, AND the hot-rod exhaust, she's definitely "The MOUSE that ROARS"...Leo (enjoying the ride, AND the acoustics) in Texas
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Post by rockynv on Oct 25, 2013 1:27:10 GMT -5
Just don't declare war on the USA and expect to get subsidised. If you win then you could end up the other way around. ;>
Is that model popular in the Duchy of Grand Fenwick ?
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Post by spandi on Oct 25, 2013 2:00:01 GMT -5
IDK Leo, but this sounds pretty good.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 25, 2013 11:09:42 GMT -5
No plans to declare war on the USA... Seems Washington is already doing THAT without any help... LOL! I'm still waiting for Texas to secede from the Union...
However, it IS time for my "posse" to get to change their underwear... Pedro, you change with Raul... Manuel, you change with Pancho... HeHeHe... couldn't resist!
The Honda in that German video does sound good... Much like a Japanese single-cylinder motorcycle. The muff on mine is quite different. At idle, and given slight throttle it sounds bone-stock. Open it up, and it sounds like a wide-open straight-through pipe; quite similar to a Japanese "tuner" car. Not at all like that metallic Japanese bike sound. It's a very high-pitched rasp. By the way the engine comes to life at high-rpm (you can feel the power-band come on as the exhaust sound gets nasty) the free-flowing exhaust must suit the engine pretty well.
I still need to check the plug for lean-running, just to be safe, but the way it runs, I think the previous owner must have the carb dialed in pretty well to the pipe. It wouldn't surprise me to find he put a little bit of a cam in there too. The top-speed is average, but the acceleration is surprising. Zero to 60 she DOES put the "scoot" in "scooter"...
Ride safe, if not quiet...
Leo in Texas
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Post by urbanmadness on Oct 25, 2013 11:31:56 GMT -5
It might have a set of weights.... Just curious about the engine in that bike... Is it a honda clone?
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Post by richardthescooter1 on Oct 25, 2013 11:39:16 GMT -5
Nice looking scoot, I know the kymco's are good scooter, you lucky dawg.
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Post by shalomdawg on Oct 25, 2013 13:24:55 GMT -5
howdy, it's my understanding it's not a honda clone engine. i know they tune these and race them in 4wheelers and they are rumored to be very good engines.
lotsa miles and smiles to ya
ken
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Post by urbanmadness on Oct 25, 2013 13:41:32 GMT -5
Some ATV's use the 250 water pumper. They are not a bad engine, they just need a few things to make them reliable, at least in the case of the Znen's. The coolant used in them for one is horrible stuff. The coolent literally eats the head gasket. The starter clutches are weak also. The Kymco's use better coolant, and I'm sure a better starter clutch, if it's the same 250. Kymco QC is much better then all the chinese brands, so Kymco would of addressed these issues. The Honda version was damn near bullet proof and it's pretty much the same engine they use in the Znen. It's all about QC. Any of the carb certified bikes are gonna run majorly lean as well. The one I'm working on came stock with a 109 jet. It's running a 115 and it's still a little lean on the top end. It's gonna need a 120.
It sounds like Leo's bike has been jetted, and maybe even has a set of rollers in it.
Leo, can you take a pic of the stator cover of the case? (it's the exhaust side) I'm curious if it's the 250cc GY6 clone. It might even say GY6 on the side drain plug.
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Post by spandi on Oct 25, 2013 18:58:17 GMT -5
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 25, 2013 23:56:37 GMT -5
I'll have to get a picture of the engine. I don't think it's a Honda clone... but I could certainly be wrong... The manual says it's the "Venezuela Type" whatever THAT means... MRP has some nice reviews on the original "Bet &Win" and says this same engine is used in the "Grand Vista/Grand Dink" as well as numerous ATV's even today. It feels to me, like a good, general-purpose "workhorse" do-everything motor... Solid, no funky sounds, instant throttle-response, plenty of rpm AND plenty of torque. Lots of "pull" for hills and mid-range passing, or even pulling a light trailer.Here's a link... The video also shows the engine pretty well. I believe this 19 hp carbureted, 2-valve engine was used up to about 2011 or so, then replaced with the new 250 and 300cc 4-valve, fuel-injected 30 hp jewel. I did test-ride a new "People 300 GTi" and I honestly think it had all the performance of an old-school 650 Triumph or BSA of my youth! Flat-floor, step-through and SWEET... but, EXPENSIVE... LOL!I have a shop-manual coming in a few days which hopefully will "tell all". I want to know about valve-adjusting, ignition, etc. Also, the wiring, since I just got a swell BIG new trunk and I'm going to wire it for all lights. The dealer kindly gave me a new owner's manual, but it's only slightly better than the Chinese manuals. Aside from showing where to put the oil, and use the controls, it's not very informative. The shop-manual should be MUCH better. That's all I can tell you about it so far, but I'm learning... As I find out more, I'll make posts.  Ride safe!Leo
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Post by spandi on Oct 26, 2013 0:08:14 GMT -5
Leo I think it might have been INSPIRED by the Honda 244cc engine. But I think it's their own design and not a clone or copy.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 26, 2013 0:08:48 GMT -5
Nice looking scoot, I know the kymco's are good scooter, you lucky dawg.
If she remains trouble-free, I will be a VERY happy camper! I was pretty happy with my Chinese 150, so THIS one is quite a step up... Even though she has a lot of miles on her clock. Ride safe!Leo |
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Post by rockynv on Oct 26, 2013 0:51:15 GMT -5
A lot of variables in cloning an engine. Even if the design is a 100% match then there is the quality of the metals and then even if the metal quality is the same then the machining, polishing and fitting of the engine as a unit when they assemble it would habve to be to the same standard. There are a lot of variables there. Even if the Kymco is part interchangable with other Honda Clones the materials quality and workmanship will be a few steps above them.
There have for example been some clones of the Briggs and Straton engines that looked pretty close except for one detail which is Briggs uses an aluminum forulation with a silicon ceramic blend that the clones did not have so the clone engines are not as stable and don't dissapate heat as well.
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Post by urbanmadness on Oct 26, 2013 4:20:19 GMT -5
If that is the engine in your bike, it is diffidently NOT a honda clone, at least not a GY6 250 water pumper anyway.
They cylinder is upright so it's not the yamaha clone either.
The Honda Helix 250 is legendary for reliability the 250cc chinese clones are hit and miss... Now the air cooled GY6's are pretty bomb proof. I'm constantly impressed by how much punishment they take. it's all in the QC and metallurgy and machining.
I do know that Kymco has a really good reputation for building excellent bikes and I really think you have a winner with what you bought.
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Post by urbanmadness on Oct 26, 2013 11:48:28 GMT -5
Yeah, that jug looks a bit different then the cn250. |
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