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Post by lykos23 on May 30, 2013 7:11:13 GMT -5
So I barely have six months of experience with my scooter, but I have years of experience with electronics and computer components. And I was wondering if anything really translates or correlates to the world of scooters, such as comparing a big bore kit with overclocking. When it comes to computer overclocking, it often requires upping the voltage, perfecting the ram timings, and most importantly upping the cooling system. Now, oddly you would think this would cause more power usage, more wear on the components, and that it would cost more money, but sometimes it's quite the opposite. You see, when your computer needs to utilize all its resources, including cpu power, it needs to max out its voltage, power usage, and has to "rev up" in order to keep up with whatever heavy task you're doing. (especially with turbo core, but I won't get into that here.) So, when you overclock your computer this gives your computer more resources to work with in the form of shear processing power. With an efficient overclock may come longer parts life, snappier response, and LESS POWER USAGE  . But why? Because, just like in scooters, you don't have to run "WOT" all the time. The processor barely needs any of its extra power in order to perform your task at hand and in the long run this conserves on power usage. And even though you would think that overclocking and stretching the potential of a cpu processor would kill it eventually, there is sometimes less wear on the processor just because it doesn't need to utilize nearly as much power to perform a task, even though its max voltage has increased. Now, I was wondering if that translates or correlates to the world of scoots in the fact that I am right now running WOT ALL the time. No matter where I'm going, I seem to have to run WOT just to maintain speed limits. Now, with a BBK I shouldn't even have to run WOT; would this not translate to less wear on my parts, even though it's a bigger bore? Even though I will have much more power, utilizing only a fraction of it should technically mean that it's safer than running WOT all the time on a 63cc, which I currently do. My second unproven hypothesis is that cooling should play an important factor in my engine's life span. Why? I don't know, that's just how it works with computer components. I have no way of measuring the temps and from what I hear an engine runs best when it's warm, or hot. But doesn't that wear stuff out? Would it not be in everyone's best interest to get performance cooling? What's your opinion on this fan? www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PC821A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2VPA2J7YDDYSTWhat are your thoughts? Am I just completely wrong on this one? |
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Post by jerseyboy on May 30, 2013 7:46:36 GMT -5
Well as long as you get your gearing up so your cruising RPM comes down you will be golden,,but if your still spinning the same RPM I dont see any benefit using or installing a BBK unless your racing on a track or something.Thats my goal,,more power to push the scoot through higher gearing which in turn will lower the RPM of any given cruising speed.
Cheers
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Post by lykos23 on May 30, 2013 7:50:17 GMT -5
[replyingto=jerseyboy]jerseyboy[/replyingto]Aha! So that's the trick!
Thanks for the reply.
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Post by kingkaymo on May 30, 2013 10:15:48 GMT -5
cooling is a plus, as long as you arent cooling it LOWER than its correct operating temp. you probably wont get there. most 50s are air cooled, meaning that they are air AND oil cooled. an oil cooler will help.
you are correct that running a 50 at WOT will wear things out faster. this is one reason i HATE restricted or low power 50s. usually means you have to WOT to maintain your state's speed limit, and usually drop to like 15 on a hill. a 150cc maintaining 35mph (standard moped speed) will have much less wear than a 50cc doing the same. increasing the power of your 50 to make WOT at all times unnecessary will decrease wear, but will tempt you into keeping WOT and just going faster than usual.
i live in the mountains, and a standard 50cc means 10-15 mph on some hills. this is unacceptable to me as it is unsafe. this causes cars to try and pass on double yellow, risking a head on collision and also putting the rider at greater risk because a driver would sooner run a moped off the road than hit a car head on. that low speed also causes some jerks to feel the need to honk, throw things, or get too close at speed. i wont put up with that crap. I have a 50cc mini chopper thats got 4 gears and will do 45 on flat and an 80cc honda elite that goes 45-50 flat and 55 downhill. both can maintain 30-35 on hills which is acceptable.
your best bet is a 150 swapped 50, (performance wise) IMO but ive heard the 80cc kits go pretty well on the 50s. if you want to be able to do "mad overclocking" you need to start with something like a 2 stroke water cooled 50 like a Kymco. they have engine kits but anyone that knows bikes knows you can squeeze more from a 2 stroker if you know what you are doing
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Post by lykos23 on May 30, 2013 10:31:39 GMT -5
cooling is a plus, as long as you arent cooling it LOWER than its correct operating temp. you probably wont get there. most 50s are air cooled, meaning that they are air AND oil cooled. an oil cooler will help. you are correct that running a 50 at WOT will wear things out faster. this is one reason i HATE restricted or low power 50s. usually means you have to WOT to maintain your state's speed limit, and usually drop to like 15 on a hill. a 150cc maintaining 35mph (standard moped speed) will have much less wear than a 50cc doing the same. increasing the power of your 50 to make WOT at all times unnecessary will decrease wear, but will tempt you into keeping WOT and just going faster than usual. i live in the mountains, and a standard 50cc means 10-15 mph on some hills. this is unacceptable to me as it is unsafe. this causes cars to try and pass on double yellow, risking a head on collision and also putting the rider at greater risk because a driver would sooner run a moped off the road than hit a car head on. that low speed also causes some jerks to feel the need to honk, throw things, or get too close at speed. i wont put up with that crap. I have a 50cc mini chopper thats got 4 gears and will do 45 on flat and an 80cc honda elite that goes 45-50 flat and 55 downhill. both can maintain 30-35 on hills which is acceptable. your best bet is a 150 swapped 50, (performance wise) IMO but ive heard the 80cc kits go pretty well on the 50s. if you want to be able to do "mad overclocking" you need to start with something like a 2 stroke water cooled 50 like a Kymco. they have engine kits but anyone that knows bikes knows you can squeeze more from a 2 stroker if you know what you are doing It seems to make sense that a more power and less wot equals longer parts life, whereas putting your engine in WOT, no matter what bore size, will wear things out quicker. That hill thing is mostly why I plan on getting a bbk, I can go 43mph downhill, and up to 38mph on flat terrain, but I always slow down to 25mph on any and all hills. While I would absolutely love to get a 2stroke to toy around with, or a 150cc, I currently don't have the cash to throw down on one. I've been trying to look through craigslist for project bikes and such, but I'm having no luck. Everyone is selling their really old chinese scooters for $1,100+ around here in Chicagoland. Nobody likes to trade, either... I have a two stroke Honda Zook, and a two stroke foldable DiBlasi scooter, but neither of those are even worth modding. Funny, the AM2 chips from AMD had a problem where cooling them to below a certain temperature would make them freeze; I guess that's the case here as well, haha. I'm sure the performance fan pushes a lot more air than the stock fan and that should mean my engine will last just a bit longer though I doubt it will really effect the performance of the thing, unless I'm really pushing it to its limits on a long drive. Mine is air cooled, and just like my computer, I thought adding a high quality fan might help. I paid $12 for my 120mm fan for my case alone, I should be spending more than that on a high quality fan for my scooter too. |
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Post by kingkaymo on May 30, 2013 10:44:25 GMT -5
why are you sure the performance fan pushes more than a stock one? thats a big assumption. while i have no experience with aftermarket scoot fans, it looks very similar to a stock one and beyond making it lighter im not sure there is much room for "more air" without a bigger fan and bigger housing. there are air scoops for these things too, but since the ones ive seen actually makes the opening smaller, im not sure it makes a positive difference. your money is actually probably better spent on an oil cooler, if there is a place to install one. otherwise save it for you intake exhaust stuff to go with the bigger kit.
PS ill trade you a 150cc motor for that honda zook...
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Post by hank on May 30, 2013 10:51:19 GMT -5
cooling is a plus, as long as you arent cooling it LOWER than its correct operating temp. you probably wont get there. most 50s are air cooled, meaning that they are air AND oil cooled. an oil cooler will help. you are correct that running a 50 at WOT will wear things out faster. this is one reason i HATE restricted or low power 50s. usually means you have to WOT to maintain your state's speed limit, and usually drop to like 15 on a hill. a 150cc maintaining 35mph (standard moped speed) will have much less wear than a 50cc doing the same. increasing the power of your 50 to make WOT at all times unnecessary will decrease wear, but will tempt you into keeping WOT and just going faster than usual. i live in the mountains, and a standard 50cc means 10-15 mph on some hills. this is unacceptable to me as it is unsafe. this causes cars to try and pass on double yellow, risking a head on collision and also putting the rider at greater risk because a driver would sooner run a moped off the road than hit a car head on. that low speed also causes some jerks to feel the need to honk, throw things, or get too close at speed. i wont put up with that crap. I have a 50cc mini chopper thats got 4 gears and will do 45 on flat and an 80cc honda elite that goes 45-50 flat and 55 downhill. both can maintain 30-35 on hills which is acceptable. your best bet is a 150 swapped 50[/b], (performance wise) IMO but ive heard the 80cc kits go pretty well on the 50s. if you want to be able to do "mad overclocking" you need to start with something like a 2 stroke water cooled 50 like a Kymco. they have engine kits but anyone that knows bikes knows you can squeeze more from a 2 stroker if you know what you are doing
Hi But then you would need to register and insure it as a 150 also have a motorcycle endorsement or risk breaking the law and possible loosing your scoot and driving privileges My 4t BBK scoot has excellent performance www.thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=photo&thread=2398&page=1Take care and ride safely Yours Hank |
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Post by lykos23 on May 30, 2013 10:54:12 GMT -5
I guess that is kind of presumptuous of me  It's just that Jaguar power sports seems to have some quality stuff, and it has "performance" in the title. I have no idea how to install an oil cooler, but I do know how to install the fan so that's where I begin, haha. If there's a way to install the 150cc into my scooter then I'd gladly trade ya. The Honda Zook is worth $3,000 restored, but right now it's nowhere near that condition. It's missing its plastics, the lights don't work, the speedo is broke, the airbox is missing, but other than all that it's fine and in running condition. It still has the original footprint wheels that came with it. I've been trying to trade it on craigslist, but no one is up to the challenge of restoring the zook even though it's one of the rarest scooters probably in America. I just don't know how I'd go about shipping the thing, haha. |
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Post by lykos23 on May 30, 2013 10:56:34 GMT -5
cooling is a plus, as long as you arent cooling it LOWER than its correct operating temp. you probably wont get there. most 50s are air cooled, meaning that they are air AND oil cooled. an oil cooler will help. you are correct that running a 50 at WOT will wear things out faster. this is one reason i HATE restricted or low power 50s. usually means you have to WOT to maintain your state's speed limit, and usually drop to like 15 on a hill. a 150cc maintaining 35mph (standard moped speed) will have much less wear than a 50cc doing the same. increasing the power of your 50 to make WOT at all times unnecessary will decrease wear, but will tempt you into keeping WOT and just going faster than usual. i live in the mountains, and a standard 50cc means 10-15 mph on some hills. this is unacceptable to me as it is unsafe. this causes cars to try and pass on double yellow, risking a head on collision and also putting the rider at greater risk because a driver would sooner run a moped off the road than hit a car head on. that low speed also causes some jerks to feel the need to honk, throw things, or get too close at speed. i wont put up with that crap. I have a 50cc mini chopper thats got 4 gears and will do 45 on flat and an 80cc honda elite that goes 45-50 flat and 55 downhill. both can maintain 30-35 on hills which is acceptable. your best bet is a 150 swapped 50[/b], (performance wise) IMO but ive heard the 80cc kits go pretty well on the 50s. if you want to be able to do "mad overclocking" you need to start with something like a 2 stroke water cooled 50 like a Kymco. they have engine kits but anyone that knows bikes knows you can squeeze more from a 2 stroker if you know what you are doing
Hi But then you would need to register and insure it as a 150 also have a motorcycle endorsement or risk breaking the law and possible loosing your scoot and driving privileges My 4t BBK scoot has excellent performance www.thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=photo&thread=2398&page=1Take care and ride safely Yours Hank That's very true, Hank. I would need to re-register the thing and re title it and it would be mandatory for me to get my L class license. It's probably not worth all the hassle unless I get my hands on a project bike to swap it with, which would give me ample time to get my license before riding the thing. I definitely don't want my precious scooter taken away! |
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Post by sailracer on May 30, 2013 12:58:56 GMT -5
[replyingto=jerseyboy]jerseyboy[/replyingto]When you up or increase your gearing,The engine actually has to work harder. therefore you up te displacement . BBK & variator weights should be about 5 gram. lycos has the right idea.
I,m an engineer myself, and have never heard it put quite that way. Good analogy Don't go too high on the gearing though,
As far as the fan goes, the greater the pitch or the more air it moves, the greater the load on the engine. I would leave the fan alone, as you have no plans on pushing the scooter to it's limits. I have the same goal,safe, comfortable cruising speed, ample hillclimbing power,and no need for WOT. Im starting with the GY6/100cc complete engine from scrappydog scooters
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Post by lykos23 on May 30, 2013 14:57:55 GMT -5
When you up or increase your gearing,The engine actually has to work harder. therefore you up te displacement . BBK & variator weights should be about 5 gram. lycos has the right idea. I,m an engineer myself, and have never heard it put quite that way. Good analogy Don't go too high on the gearing though, As far as the fan goes, the greater the pitch or the more air it moves, the greater the load on the engine. I would leave the fan alone, as you have no plans on pushing the scooter to it's limits. I have the same goal,safe, comfortable cruising speed, ample hillclimbing power,and no need for WOT. Im starting with the GY6/100cc complete engine from scrappydog scooters Thanks for the input. I didn't realize more airflow meant bigger load on the engine. Would there be a way to offset this if the fan turns out to push a lot of air and therefore overwork the engine? Such as using lighter roller weights or something? Or would the fan just put wear on the crankshaft? I'm really interested in getting the fan, but I only want to get it if it can preserve my parts, not destroy them. I don't plan on pushing my scooter too much, I'd probably end up utilizing the mid range power to go 35mph most of the time, but there will be instances where I have to drive on 50mph roads (which I already do and yet can only go a max of 38mph on flat) which is why I thought better cooling might help some for those somewhat rare instances. I was thinking of getting the scrappydogscooter bbk, but the techdirect kit comes with a head and I just can't pass it up, it's not a performance head or anything, but if anything it should be better than stock. Plus Millsc already promised me his valve thingies if it turns out the head is too small (it's 64mm (no idea what my stock is)). I certainly wish you the best of luck in your bbk procedure, hope all turns out well. |
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Post by jerseyboy on May 30, 2013 15:50:12 GMT -5
When you up or increase your gearing,The engine actually has to work harder. therefore you up te displacement . BBK & variator weights should be about 5 gram. lycos has the right idea. I,m an engineer myself, and have never heard it put quite that way. Good analogy Don't go too high on the gearing though, As far as the fan goes, the greater the pitch or the more air it moves, the greater the load on the engine. I would leave the fan alone, as you have no plans on pushing the scooter to it's limits. I have the same goal,safe, comfortable cruising speed, ample hillclimbing power,and no need for WOT. Im starting with the GY6/100cc complete engine from scrappydog scooters Yup ,, I would not up the gearing unless the displacement or HP was upped,,weather it be bolt on mods,or BBK.Man I cant wait to get my scoot,,should be here tomorrow morn in the crate  |
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Main Jet
It's just that Jaguar power sports seems to have some quality stuff, and it has "performance" in the title. 