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Post by barneyrubble on May 23, 2013 6:00:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the board.
Here's my situation: I have a Honda Dio AF34. I bought it used and it ran pretty good for about a year; over time it started losing power. Shop guy said, "Stop running cheap oil, replace the muffler, and it'll be fine." He was right.
A year later, some thing, only more significant, like just barely crawling up hills it used to go up at 40 KPH. Went back to the guy, turned out to the carb (air screw frozen solid). He gave me a used one off an ZX. Problem mostly solved.
I decided to put a 70cc BBK on with a new expansion chamber muffler. After fiddling around with jets I got it running pretty good, so I made some changes to the clutch contra spring and put in some sliders. And life was great for a few months. [Just a little bragging - I have no idea how fast it'll go but enough to keep up with traffic at partial throttle.]
Tuesday going to work I notice that it felt sluggish going up a hill it raced up the day before. (Sluggish means it was felt like it was losing power). By the time I got the traffic light at the top, it would barely stay running at half throttle, but then it quit and wouldn't start.
I changed the spark plug, didn't help. I took the carb off and cleaned it, didn't help. I squirted gas in the cylinder, didn't help. It acted like it wanted to start, but just couldn't keep going - as soon as I released the start button, it died. Then out the of blue it started. I took it for a little ride and just as I was turning around to go back home it quit again. (On the ride, the power was still down and it wouldn't rev up like it used to.)
Pushed it home and started going through everything: 1) It has compression (I don't know how much, but probably as much as it had before) 2) The piston and the rings are OK. AND they were soaked in gas. 3) I found a small cut in my gas line that WAS leaking and fixed it. Plenty of gas at the carb. 4) I put in a brand new spark plug. It has spark, but I don't know how much is enough. 5) The shop guy gave me 2 different CDIs to try and both produce the same amount of spark. 6) I took off the air cleaner (so it's not an air restriction) 7) I took out the reed valves and they're OK. 8) I took off the muffler and it's OK.
It back-fired once, but since then, nothing.
The only things I can think of that I haven't tried are: stator, ignition coil, engine seals. I don't think it could be an engine seal, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, it wouldn't have or maintain compression without a seal, right? The whole case is under compression when things are working correctly, I think.
What should the spark look like? I get a small blue colored spark.
Any ideas on what it could be?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by scootnwinn on May 23, 2013 11:55:07 GMT -5
The only thing you have yet to determine is whether or not your spark is happening at TDC (or close enough to it to fire) Is the trigger for the CDI movable? Has it moved? Check to make sure it is triggering at TDC by putting a test light on the trigger wire to the CDI and turning the engine. When does the light turn on? i.e. how far advanced or retarded is the spark??
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Post by barneyrubble on May 23, 2013 18:07:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the idea scootnwinn. I don't think the trigger is movable, but I'll check that when I get home. I'm also going to pull the stator off and do a visual check on that. I'm at a loss.
Additionally: I tried a different carb, that didn't help. I also pulled off the cvt and clutch cover to see if there was a problem there and there wasn't.
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Post by alleyoop on May 23, 2013 19:18:29 GMT -5
I think it is either of two problems: 1. Low compression under 120psi. Take the plug put stick your finger in the hole nice and snuge and crank it(if you do not have a compression gauge). A. If it has descent compression it will blow your finger off the hole. B. If you just feel some pressure it is low on compression. 2. Fuel delivery problem, could be running LEAN on you and heating up.
I assume you have a SLIDER type carb(throttle cable going into the top center of the carb). Have you adjusted the AIR RATIO SCREW to try and cut off some more air so it gets a little more fuel to air mixture?
Also what size jets do you have in there? Alleyoop
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Post by barneyrubble on May 23, 2013 19:57:16 GMT -5
Thanks Alleyoop I think the compression is OK. Before I pulled the head and the cylinder (jug?) off, I did as you suggested and it felt about the same as it did when I installed the BBK. I thought about number 2 also, but it hasn't been a problem and the temperature hasn't changed enough to make me think that's what it is. I've been running it the same way for about 6 or 7 months without trouble. Currently running a stock air box with a couple of holes drilled in it. main and 38 pilot. And yes, I have tried changing the air ratio screw, but it always runs best at the same setting.
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Post by tvnacman on May 23, 2013 20:13:13 GMT -5
what color is the spark plug ? Have you double checked your engine ground ?
is it oil injected or are you mixing the oil in the fuel ? (soft seize)
John
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Post by alleyoop on May 23, 2013 20:27:34 GMT -5
Well most of you guys just like speed and that requires for the motors to be set lean to get a little more power BUT that is not the way to setup a motor you want to be just a hair RICH when at WOT otherwise it will overheat espcially going up a hill that is a lot of load on a little 50cc motor. But one can only try to explain is all one can do. Alleyoop
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Post by skuttadawg on May 23, 2013 20:49:22 GMT -5
38IJ is small . Mine came with a 40 and I installed a 45 IJ with a BBK and 120 MJ with a pipe and Uni . Have you checked for any leaks in the intake or airbox ?
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Post by scootnwinn on May 23, 2013 22:08:27 GMT -5
You guys are right but at this point tuning isn't possible as it won't even start. Even if it was too lean pouring gas in the carb would have fixed that. He's missing something major as he can't even start it. An actual compression check or a fresh thumbing may be in order in addition to the timing check
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Post by skuttadawg on May 23, 2013 22:21:37 GMT -5
I had a wristpin come out and it ate up the piston , head and cylinder . I installed a new piston and nada no start . Bought a new BBK reused the new piston as I only tried to start it a few times . Installed the new cylinder and head and Bazinga ! It starts everytime instantly ever since
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Post by barneyrubble on May 23, 2013 23:06:44 GMT -5
tvnacman - the plug is brown, it's about the same color it was when I was running the OE piston. I still have the oil injector connected AND I mix a little oil in when I fill it with gas. alleyoop - I have a set of numbered jets and if I go up to a it has absolutely no power and runs like crap. If I go down to , it's got plenty of power, but it gets 'burning oil smell' hot. I I think the main jet is OK. I have done a couple of different plug chops and it always been to look best and run best the way it is. skuttadawg - the carb is off from a ZX which originally came with a 35, I have a 40 and 42, and when I use either one ... from a dead stop it just bogs down until its going fast enough to rely on the main jet. With the 38, it takes off pretty good. I have checked for leaks: I sprayed carb cleaner all around when it was running and the engine speed didn't change. alleyoop, scootnwin, and skuttadawg's advice helped me figure it, though it's no consolation to my pride. She's back up and running again. I don't have a compression tester so I did the ole 'finger-over-the-spark-plug-hole' test, which showed compression. I did it a few times and it always felt like there was enough. When I said I checked the piston and cylinder, it was true. I was doing it without my worklight (bulb burned out) so I could only 'feel' the bottom of the piston. When I got home and was getting ready to put it back together I decided to just pull if off and do a magnaflux test on it to check for cracks. When I got it off and rotated it around to the bottom, there was the undeniable evidence; piston scored beyond repair and bottom ring stuck in the groove. I put the OE stuff back on, just to see if it would run ... 2 kicks and she fired right up. Now I've just got pick up some new gaskets and I can at least use it as it was before. Just want send a shout out to the folks who offered advice.
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Post by skuttadawg on May 23, 2013 23:18:44 GMT -5
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