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Post by marty on Jul 23, 2018 2:42:03 GMT -5
<<Sorry about posting in wrong section! very new>>
Hey guys and gals,
Very new to boards and forums and stuff so apologies if I've done this wrong and broken a few rules...
Here's my current situation:
I am 17 years old
I have a GY6 2007 Hanglong 50cc scooter (4 stroke)
It has a nice after market exhaust and sounds awesome, pretty bog standard apart from that.
I bought it at 3 thousand ish KM on the dial and It is now up to 5550km on the dial. I did an oil change at 4300ish km and put a new spark plug in 150km ago and a newer CDI at the same time (gave me 3 extra km/h oh yeahhh)
Everything was going awesome!
Until 6 days ago where I was riding along at 55km/h and all of a sudden the engine made a large growling sound and I lost all throttle, I flicked my indicator on, pulled over and the engine completely shut off. At the time I had assumed my belt was broken because when I went to try and start it after it had shut off it makes a single click.
long story short, walked and pushed it 6km home (holy moly that really sucked) and took the cover off, the belt was fine! I'm incredibly confused as of what to do next... She doesnt start and I really cant think of anything that would cause that loss of power and suddenly refusing to turn on! I love the dear little thing and it is alot of fun and having to walk places now sucks. I have seen conflicting statements online from broken starter / solonoid to water in my gas, any advice would be really really appreciated. I have tried the old CDI, new fuse, new coil and nothing at all. I've fully recharged my battery and nothing, still the damn dreaded click. Really really lost.
Please help the noob out! thank you!
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 23, 2018 4:10:17 GMT -5
Ok this is a dup thread..
Check your Ground Wire Strap that is from the Engine to the frame, remove it and clap it up all shiny and install.
Another thing since you checked that belt did you try to turn the engine over by hand using the Variator to make sure the Engine is Not locked up?
You need to confirm 100% that the engine is not locked up, if she is thats all the sound you will hear is the Starter Solenoid Clicking...
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Post by marty on Jul 23, 2018 5:35:24 GMT -5
I can freely spin the back wheel by turning the clutch assembly and when i remove the starter i can move the variator with a bit of effort, it doesn't really wanna do a full rotation though...
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Post by jaciche on Jul 23, 2018 8:29:23 GMT -5
I can freely spin the back wheel by turning the clutch assembly and when i remove the starter i can move the variator with a bit of effort, it doesn't really wanna do a full rotation though... If the variator can't turn a full rotation, that's not a good sign...hopefully someone will chime in with better news. |
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 23, 2018 8:49:35 GMT -5
I can freely spin the back wheel by turning the clutch assembly and when i remove the starter i can move the variator with a bit of effort, it doesn't really wanna do a full rotation though... Ok Skip the Rear wheel as it will Not turn over the engine. You need to spin the Vari freely 360 degrees. Right now with the sound she made and the Vari Not turning a full rotation you have Most Likely suffered a Major internal engine failure, She Blew Up. Have you or anyone else ever adjusted the Valves? |
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Post by grumpyunk on Jul 23, 2018 15:39:47 GMT -5
Have you checked that there is oil in the crankcase? If it is too low, it won't lube nor cool, and things can go bad quickly when it gets too hot.
You should be able to rotate the variator 360 without binding except for the effort to compress the gas in the cylinder on the compression stroke.
A quick check to see if your cam & cam chain are functional and attached to an intact crankshaft & sprocket would be to remove the rocker/cam cover and watch what happens as you attempt to rotate the crankshaft. You can use a 17mm on the vairator or a 12mm on the hub of the cooling fan wheel.
If the chain is slack or jammed up when you look, you will need to take things apart to find the deeper problem.
One good thing is that unless you broke your connecting rod, the piston will still move, so it is not locked up.
If the cam & rockers seem ok, go ahead and remove the cylinder head and inspect the piston motion as you turn the crankshaft.
tom
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 23, 2018 17:55:15 GMT -5
Have you checked that there is oil in the crankcase? If it is too low, it won't lube nor cool, and things can go bad quickly when it gets too hot. You should be able to rotate the variator 360 without binding except for the effort to compress the gas in the cylinder on the compression stroke. A quick check to see if your cam & cam chain are functional and attached to an intact crankshaft & sprocket would be to remove the rocker/cam cover and watch what happens as you attempt to rotate the crankshaft. You can use a 17mm on the vairator or a 12mm on the hub of the cooling fan wheel. If the chain is slack or jammed up when you look, you will need to take things apart to find the deeper problem. One good thing is that unless you broke your connecting rod, the piston will still move, so it is not locked up. If the cam & rockers seem ok, go ahead and remove the cylinder head and inspect the piston motion as you turn the crankshaft. tom Skip all this rigamarole, jeezuz have this poor kid with out a clue tearing into his engine. STOP!! Pull the damn spark plug and rotate the engine by hand Don't matter if you broke a rod if you dumped a Valve it and all the debris is stuck between the piston and combustion chamber and the engine will Not rotate over Top Dead Center... Bet a Valve Lash adj was never performed... The Big End Crank bearing is junk or she Dumped a Valve... |
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Post by chewbaca on Jul 23, 2018 19:20:38 GMT -5
ok so LOTS of advice ha ha 😀
a step-by-step guide of EZ to do things
first thing to do is an oil change and filter check
so with the scoot on the kick stand open the oil bolt.
drain the oil and inspect it.
is it glittery ?
Yes .... well darn, major indicator of damage
No ... yea who hoo.
now check the " oil filter " with the scoot on the center stand
this will drain the remainder of the oil and let you check the mesh basket
for debris.
an occasional flake of aluminum or bit of gasket fiber is normal.
Chunks however are an indicator of damage.
if you have glitter and or chunks of debris then the motor is done
and needs a rebuild.
$250.00 for a new motor while you take your time and work on the old one.
No glitter no debris ... good now remove the variator cover and grab variator fan with a rag or glove and rotate two complete turns one time should have springy resistance it should be smooth but stiff. Try to wiggle it in and out, it should not wiggle.
if you can't turn it and or it stopped with a clunk or if the crank is wiggly.
new motor or a rebuild
if you think that you can't turn it because of compression well... go do some pushups it's a little 50cc 😯 .
next check the starter
does it spin freely with your finger? if no then new starter
is it full of oil? new starter or clean out and replace O rings.
ground the starter frame against the motor with the wires connected
it should spin up with a strong kick when you hit the switch
no kick? replace starter with a circuit tester does it light up?
no light, check the starter solenoid it's probably bad
it lights up, back to the starter probably bad brushes
new starter
do not replace a bad solenoid with an OEM solenoid they are junk
go get a good sealed one form an auto parts store
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Post by marty on Jul 24, 2018 0:31:28 GMT -5
chewbaca grumpyunk pistonguy jaciche Hey everyone Thank you first of all for all the replies As for the scooter... I drained all the oil and there is a mix of small 1mm long strands of metal and very very very fine powder looking metal in the oil. I put it all through the oil filter 3 times and in the end it only got the big (1mm) stuff, rest of it is so so so fine, finer than glitter. Im assuming im a bit up creek lol As im a complete noob to engines what has actually happened and what would you guys recommend I do next? Also will attempt to post pics of fragments i caught later.
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 24, 2018 5:57:04 GMT -5
Pull the Spark Plug and Rotate the Engine by hand to Confirm the engine is Locked up or not turning complete a 360 before locking up...
Either take off the CVT cover to do this or take off the Fan/Flywheel plastic cover to turn it over by hand.
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Post by marty on Jul 25, 2018 5:20:02 GMT -5
marty, pistonguy, jaciche, grumpyunk, chewbaca Good evening all did alot of work on the scooter today and I believe I have found the source and a solid 80% of the way through fixing the old girl up I took off the following the cover over the cam shaft the two weird things (took a photo for reference and removed the two spacers) the cam shaft and then instantly saw an issue the chain was completely off and was jammed in the back, removed the cam shaft and then took that block off so I could see the piston. I have also discovered that when I got my oil change done by a friend of a friend he wayyyy over filled the oil and there was oil dripping in that thing. Im amazed the bikes done so many KM with so much oil in it holy moly. (Cam chain? it was running beside the piston and was causing the dreaded click...) Unjammed it and re-attached both ends and then tried turning the white fan that was on the right hand side of the bike if it was to be behind it and sure enough, piston moves very freely and fine now. The chain on the bike is a little bit scratched and loved looking and in one clip it has alot of damage as im assuming it was the clip that got jammed at 55kmh. It looks okay and teeth are okay and seems to work okay. I assume that the reason this chain came off was due to so much oil? Anyway, I have put some new oil in (correct amount and checked this time, put everything back together and it's moving now! It still isn't starting and I am now starting to suspect the Stator as it didn't look very good beside the white fan... I saw rust coming from it so I will replace that tomorrow and then hopefully it will fire up! Also my kick start still doesn't work? not to sure why, I've never had it working so i'm not to concerned.
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 25, 2018 7:26:03 GMT -5
Ok the Stator has Nothing to do with your Scoot Not starting, don't waste your time and money.
I was hoping you would Not take Grumpys advice and Not tear into the engine because your in real trouble now. The guy with three posts sends a young kid down the road to ruin in one post just plane Boils me..
The Cam chain cannot get knocked off by too much oil. you have a Major Internal Engine Failure. Its all over
The Cam Chain has a tensioner,, You Simply can't just put the Cam Chain back on and away she goes. The Cam is Timed, it has Timing marks that get aligned with the CylinderHead and the Flywheel is at Top Dead Center Compression Stroke (TDC). The Cam out of time you could very well have the Piston Contact the valves and bend them all to junk, but you have bigger problems already.
Also sounds like you removed the Cylinder Head I think you called it the Block, Now you Must use a new Head Gasket or it Will Leak for Sure and have a Torque wrench to properly torque this Cylinder Stud nuts. This Studs are factory Junk and if you over torque them they lose there elasticity and will Never hold a clamping surface. they are usually a torque once and throw them away and install new ones.
And you would have Had to Adjust the Valve lash when you removed and reinstalled the Cylinder head?
Have you confirmed that you have Spark? I don't think it really matter as the Cam is Not in time you have a major internal failure and she will never start the way she is.
Good Luck..
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Post by chewbaca on Jul 25, 2018 11:48:01 GMT -5
meh...... its a crate motor now
cam chain is stretched need a new one
the cam sprocket is probably ok but the drive sprockets likely damaged
check it with a flashlight for missing or bent teeth if damaged time for a rebuild.
oil is supposed to be all over the cam chain area it is the return path of the oil from the camshaft, that oil is very particulated and travels back mostly as a mist. the correct amount of oil is just over the beginning of the dipstick hash mark when on the kickstand and 3/4 up when on the center stand.
you can probably maybe get away with reusing the stock head bolts provided you don't up the compression, stroke, or bore and have a new head gasket
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Post by cyborg55 on Jul 29, 2018 11:57:08 GMT -5
I smell a crate mill as well
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Post by marty on Aug 3, 2018 1:00:22 GMT -5
marty, pistonguy, jaciche, grumpyunk, chewbaca, cyborg55 cyborg55 chewbaca grumpyunk jaciche marty pistonguy Hey everyone! So, I adjusted the chain and made sure it was all lined up (the 3 holes) along with the engine being TDC and it spins over now, sounds like its cranking but it also makes this awful grinding noise now, I have also adjusted my valves and found that one was loose as a goose and the other rock solid, I have adjusted them both to the width of a razor blade. I've checked for spark which I have got and I'm really getting confused of what to do next. I don't think It is the piston as since I have unjammed it all and put it all on correctly she moves easy as. The metal filings im pretty sure must of come from the chain as it is a bit scratched up in places but teeth still look okay!
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