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Post by heread1979 on Jul 18, 2017 19:19:12 GMT -5
Hey guys, I am new to these forums and scooter repair, so please bear with me. This whole thing began when my scooter was having issues trying to cold start. But when I start it again while the engine is warm then it starts right up. So I suspected that some possible solutions were: cleaning the carburetor, replacing the choke, and adjusting the valves. I took off the underseat storage and did some visual inspections. One of the first things I saw was the air intake tube was cracking and breaking apart. Maybe that was causing the scooter not to start? So now I gotta replace that intake tube. And the carburetor is located right under it so I had to take it off regardless. The first thing I decided to do was to do the valve adjustment. I watched many Youtube videos on how to do this and I thought I was well prepared. I took off the engine head as instructed, removed the 4 bolts. After that, things did not go as I planned, it actually has caused me more problems to deal with! First of , after using the feeler gauge, I was tightening down the bolts on the valves , but the inner screw just would not stay put when I held them with the pliers. And then I found out that screw has been stripped , in other words it won't screw to the hexagon nut. The second problem was that I was being so clumsy (I was working outside in the summer heat) that I've accidentally dropped a screw into the camshaft hole. So I've had to try disassemble the rest of the engine head, ended up removing more screws and bolts , since there were so many tight spots my wrench wouldn't fit unless I removed part of the plastic frame. This whole process took me a few days to get through. I've already removed the camshaft off of the chain , removed the muffler bolts that were attached at the bottom, removed the manifold, along with many other screws, then I was able to take off the head. But now I've reached to a point where I'm suck. There was another hole I found what seems to be the inside of the oil compartment, the screw must have fell in there. Well f**k! I've done all that removing engine head for nothing. So I drained the oil out from the engine , and now I just need to figure out how to get inside the oil compartment to get that screw out. This whole thing has become a hassle now, what I thought was going to be simple and easy turned out to be a nightmare. At least from all this I've gotten the opportunity to learn more about my scooter. Hopefully somebody can help me with this what else I need to do. Preferably someone who's had a lot of experience and knowledge with Chinese scooters / GY6 engines. In the end I hope I can revive my old scooter, do a few modifications, and make it like new again, even better! If anyone needs pictures or anything , please let me know. And if anyone wants to know what kind of scooter I have, here's a link with all the specs: www.df-motor.com/product_show.asp?id=683 |
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Post by toddmaples on Jul 20, 2017 0:47:34 GMT -5
Hey guys, I am new to these forums and scooter repair, so please bear with me. This whole thing began when my scooter was having issues trying to cold start. But when I start it again while the engine is warm then it starts right up. So I suspected that some possible solutions were: cleaning the carburetor, replacing the choke, and adjusting the valves. I took off the underseat storage and did some visual inspections. One of the first things I saw was the air intake tube was cracking and breaking apart. Maybe that was causing the scooter not to start? So now I gotta replace that intake tube. And the carburetor is located right under it so I had to take it off regardless. The first thing I decided to do was to do the valve adjustment. I watched many Youtube videos on how to do this and I thought I was well prepared. I took off the engine head as instructed, removed the 4 bolts. After that, things did not go as I planned, it actually has caused me more problems to deal with! First of , after using the feeler gauge, I was tightening down the bolts on the valves , but the inner screw just would not stay put when I held them with the pliers. And then I found out that screw has been stripped , in other words it won't screw to the hexagon nut. The second problem was that I was being so clumsy (I was working outside in the summer heat) that I've accidentally dropped a screw into the camshaft hole. So I've had to try disassemble the rest of the engine head, ended up removing more screws and bolts , since there were so many tight spots my wrench wouldn't fit unless I removed part of the plastic frame. This whole process took me a few days to get through. I've already removed the camshaft off of the chain , removed the muffler bolts that were attached at the bottom, removed the manifold, along with many other screws, then I was able to take off the head. But now I've reached to a point where I'm suck. There was another hole I found what seems to be the inside of the oil compartment, the screw must have fell in there. Well f**k! I've done all that removing engine head for nothing. So I drained the oil out from the engine , and now I just need to figure out how to get inside the oil compartment to get that screw out. This whole thing has become a hassle now, what I thought was going to be simple and easy turned out to be a nightmare. At least from all this I've gotten the opportunity to learn more about my scooter. Hopefully somebody can help me with this what else I need to do. Preferably someone who's had a lot of experience and knowledge with Chinese scooters / GY6 engines. In the end I hope I can revive my old scooter, do a few modifications, and make it like new again, even better! If anyone needs pictures or anything , please let me know. And if anyone wants to know what kind of scooter I have, here's a link with all the specs: www.df-motor.com/product_show.asp?id=683 get a telescoping magnetic pickup tool and feel around down the timing chain hole for the lost bolt... If that fails remove the cylinder and try again through the bore cutout in the case. Make sure the magnet is small enough to fit down the cam chain hole before spending money on this. These pickup tools really come in handy grabbing anuthing ferrous from a tight spot such as in engine bays or (as in your case) a crankcase While you have this tjing tore down this far, might as well throw a bigger piston/cylinder kit on it. Carb rejet will be required if you do this. |
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Post by heread1979 on Jul 20, 2017 1:37:45 GMT -5
Do you have a link for such a tool on Amazon / Ebay? Preferably one that's flexible. I could try that. Would it still be effective in oil?
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Post by toddmaples on Jul 20, 2017 11:35:30 GMT -5
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Post by heread1979 on Jul 21, 2017 17:23:53 GMT -5
Nice! I'm gonna order one then I'll get back on the results
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Post by heread1979 on Jul 24, 2017 18:17:53 GMT -5
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Post by toddmaples on Jul 24, 2017 19:12:08 GMT -5
Holy crap, it worked! That magnet literally saved my life!! Now I just need to figure out assembling the pieces back together. Another good news was that I was able to remove that stripped screw off of the rocker arm. Now I'm wondering if I can clean the rocker arm and engine blocks and reuse them or should I get them replaced? All I would need to do is get a set of replacement screws. Here are some pictures attached. Based on the condition , would it be better to get the screws replaced or the rocker? Better or cheaper? Best would probably be get a quality rocker arm assembly. Be careful, there are two different valve lengths and two differing rocker arm assemblies to go with it. Think one is a 64mm valve length and the other is a 69mm. Should be a youtube explaining how to tell them apart so you dont order the wrong parts. |
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Posts: 7
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Post by heread1979 on Jul 29, 2017 1:22:34 GMT -5
Holy crap, it worked! That magnet literally saved my life!! Now I just need to figure out assembling the pieces back together. Another good news was that I was able to remove that stripped screw off of the rocker arm. Now I'm wondering if I can clean the rocker arm and engine blocks and reuse them or should I get them replaced? All I would need to do is get a set of replacement screws. Here are some pictures attached. Based on the condition , would it be better to get the screws replaced or the rocker? Better or cheaper? Best would probably be get a quality rocker arm assembly. Be careful, there are two different valve lengths and two differing rocker arm assemblies to go with it. Think one is a 64mm valve length and the other is a 69mm. Should be a youtube explaining how to tell them apart so you dont order the wrong parts. The rocker seems okay. It's just the screws that need to be replaced. |
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Post by toddmaples on Jul 29, 2017 2:12:28 GMT -5
Better or cheaper? Best would probably be get a quality rocker arm assembly. Be careful, there are two different valve lengths and two differing rocker arm assemblies to go with it. Think one is a 64mm valve length and the other is a 69mm. Should be a youtube explaining how to tell them apart so you dont order the wrong parts. The rocker seems okay. It's just the screws that need to be replaced. If the threads on the screw are marred up, then most likely the ones in the arm are marred up. This is not something i persobally would take a chance on as it can grenade your whole top assembly. (Head, cylinder/piston, and rocker arm assy) under the right circumstances. If it were me, Id feel much better knowing the tappets and jam nuts are not going to come loose and wreak havock inside my engine while WOT on a ride... To each their own though. If you feel its an acceptable risk, then by all means order some tappets and jam nuts and go for it. Edit: Heres a complete assembly for $15: www.partsforscooters.com/164-41_GY6-Rocker_Arms |
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Post by heread1979 on Jul 29, 2017 11:21:31 GMT -5
Does that assembly mention anywhere if it's the 64mm or the 69mm version?
Edit: I think I have found another suspect to the cold-starting issue. The spark plug may not have been seated correctly. It looked worn out when I removed it , so I'm going to try replacing that as well.
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Post by toddmaples on Jul 30, 2017 0:00:45 GMT -5
Does that assembly mention anywhere if it's the 64mm or the 69mm version? Edit: I think I have found another suspect to the cold-starting issue. The spark plug may not have been seated correctly. It looked worn out when I removed it , so I'm going to try replacing that as well. Im not sure exactly, but you can call them and ask, there is a number on their contact page. I reccomend and iridium spark plug, lasts longer. |
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Post by seamus26 on Jul 31, 2017 18:30:57 GMT -5
Man, I feel for you. I just did my first valve adjustment on my 2013 ZNEN 150. I had about 5300 miles on it and the cold start issue was a symptom. I replaced the plug because it was time, the battery because Michigan winters are unkind and and cleaned the carburetor because I enjoy it. It was still starting hard and idling rough when it was cold. It seemed to run better when it was warm, but something just wasn't right.
I grew up adjusting VW valves, so I wasn't afraid of it, at least. Perhaps I should have been.
The whole process took me about two hours. A full 1:50 was spent actually getting to the valves. Now, I'm not a violent man, but Chinese "engineers" had me thinking of all sorts of creative ways to weaponize whatever tool was in my hand. The intake valve checked at .004", which was where I planned on setting them both, so I left it alone. The exhaust valve, which I could not actually see, I attempted to check by feel, once I figured out which elbow I had to dislocate to reach it from underneath while I watched from the top. There was no measurable gap. That explained all of my problems; the cylinder just wasn't sealing up because the valve wasn't closing. I used a method that V-Dubbers used to call the "trapped feeler method" (thank you, John Muir) and it worked perfectly.
It was the best two hours I've ever spent on that bike. It's like a brand new machine. Anyone who hasn't done this to their bike should take the time and effort to do so. It's few tools and with a little bit of instruction anyone could. With only one cylinder and two valves, it doesn't take much to throw the whole system off.
Sorry to hear about the additional troubles you had. I would go out on a limb and say that once the valves are set you'll notice a big difference.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jul 31, 2017 19:58:19 GMT -5
oh man, the screw down the bolt hole trick.
that's enough to ruin anybodys day.
i'm glad you got it sorted out.
you're gonna love your ride, i promise.
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Post by spandi on Aug 1, 2017 22:33:19 GMT -5
Man, I feel for you. I just did my first valve adjustment on my 2013 ZNEN 150. I had about 5300 miles on it and the cold start issue was a symptom. I replaced the plug because it was time, the battery because Michigan winters are unkind and and cleaned the carburetor because I enjoy it. It was still starting hard and idling rough when it was cold. It seemed to run better when it was warm, but something just wasn't right. I grew up adjusting VW valves, so I wasn't afraid of it, at least. Perhaps I should have been. The whole process took me about two hours. A full 1:50 was spent actually getting to the valves. Now, I'm not a violent man, but Chinese "engineers" had me thinking of all sorts of creative ways to weaponize whatever tool was in my hand. The intake valve checked at .004", which was where I planned on setting them both, so I left it alone. The exhaust valve, which I could not actually see, I attempted to check by feel, once I figured out which elbow I had to dislocate to reach it from underneath while I watched from the top. There was no measurable gap. That explained all of my problems; the cylinder just wasn't sealing up because the valve wasn't closing. I used a method that V-Dubbers used to call the "trapped feeler method" (thank you, John Muir) and it worked perfectly. It was the best two hours I've ever spent on that bike. It's like a brand new machine. Anyone who hasn't done this to their bike should take the time and effort to do so. It's few tools and with a little bit of instruction anyone could. With only one cylinder and two valves, it doesn't take much to throw the whole system off. Sorry to hear about the additional troubles you had. I would go out on a limb and say that once the valves are set you'll notice a big difference. Ah yes, the joys of working on the "product" Chinese. (As a certain politician liked to say "I feel you pain") Many times that scooter had me "testing" out various wrenches for their suitability as a guided missile LOL! But when it finally worked out it was worth the effort. |
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