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Post by wheelbender6 on Jul 13, 2017 18:44:49 GMT -5
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jul 14, 2017 23:46:28 GMT -5
wheelbender6,
I saw that article too. VERY interesting... My grandkids are part of this new generation... 20-something, making good money doing things I don't even recognize... noses buried in their smart-phone screens, thumbs in constant motion, even texting each other while sitting NEXT to each other... Texting each other in the same car, etc. EVERYTHING in their world is buried in their phone; job, marriage, kids, school, hobby, social world etc. is a 24/7 "thumbs-in-motion" never let your eyes leave that smart-phone screen event. Sadly, I have little influence in encouraging them NOT to do that while driving... And, YES, I've seen brain-dead riders doing it on motorcycles and scooters too... Hands off the bars, nose on the screen, thumbs frantically organizing their world as they blithely fly through red-lights and construction zones. This generation seems to be ONLY interested in whatever they can accomplish with their thumbs... Anything with a motor and wheels is strictly a way to go from point-A to point-B. All they seem to care about is "does it leave a carbon footprint?" The REALLY young crowd still goes for bikes, but not big Harley cruisers. CROTCH ROCKETS rule! And they seem to have a Kamikaze death-wish to see just how soon they can fly off the freeway overpass at 200 or so... Texting will speed up that process.Those of us who still get a "warm fuzzy" over anything remotely "cool" on two wheels whether scooter, big bike, balloon-tire Schwinn, etc. are a vanishing breed. There will always be SOME market for Harleys for those with $40K to spend (and likely a market for Indians for those willing to switch loyalties at a bargain price) but in the foreseeable future, the BIG market is for the latest whiz-bang smart-phone and its "apps". Lock the house, cook dinner, do the laundry, start the car, buy a business, find a service, find a restaurant... and more and more and more... See inside the fridge while at the food store instead of making a list... Text and "sext" a "friend with benefits"... Oh, and of course, THE most critical function: WHO is bringing the condoms and rolling-papers to tonight's party...
Cheesh!I recently snagged a FREE smart-phone, and haven't even figured out how to use it... And am in NO hurry to learn. I'll stick with bikes and cars for some knuckles-in-the-wind fun. But I am a nearly extinct species... LOL! Ride safe, and enjoy being one of us vanishing dinosaurs who still gets a big grin on his/her pie-hole when we see a slick little scooter go by, or hear that ear-splitting screech of burning rubber and the staccato-burst of flaming exhaust from a hopped-up Hog's straight-pipes! Leo (still grinning some while ridin' the old Mouse) in Texas
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Post by spandi on Jul 16, 2017 19:18:12 GMT -5
Oh, their just waiting for Tesla motors to come out with a self-driving long range electric Motorcycle that can download all their favorite apps and iTunes...Lol!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jul 16, 2017 22:26:39 GMT -5
Oh, their just waiting for Tesla motors to come out with a self-driving long range electric Motorcycle that can download all their favorite apps and iTunes...Lol! Oh, Spandi... You are SOOOO right!!! Have a bone on the Old Chopper Guy! I don't even pretend to understand the modern generation. I guess my demographic migrated toward things on wheels that made a lot of noise because we didn't have electronic toys... OOHHH... The cackle of a flathead Ford with a cam (be STILL my beating heart) the thunder of a Hog with straight-pipes... The scream of a 2-stroke kart motor at 20K rpm... The crack of a short-barreled .44 magnum pulled from yer' pants... And yes, even the mundane pop of a one-lung scoot as it goes faster and faster at the same rpm with its magic CVT tranny... Now electronic stuff can DEFINITELY be cool... (WHAT is cooler than a DRONE?). No argument there. But c'mon guys... Sweeping into the parking lot and sauntering off of a sweet 2 (or 3-wheel) ride STILL offers thrills a screen full of mega-pixels just cannot. When ya' haul yer' ride over and feel metal scrape tarmac, it just makes a guy or gal feel "alive" and "in-contact with the road..." No pun intended... HeHeHe... When I do that on Minnie, I tell her I'm just tickling her tummy to let her know I lover her... I still get more kick out of looking at Minnie Mouse's fishtail exhaust and light-up goose on her nose than searching a smart phone for some number I don't recall... Just me...Oh well, we ALL have SOMETHING that "blow our dress up"... LOL! Just make mine something that burns gasoline instead of kilowatts...Leo (well aware that "if it uses gas or lipstick, it WILL eventually give you trouble"...) in Texas
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Post by spandi on Jul 29, 2017 22:39:22 GMT -5
Oh, their just waiting for Tesla motors to come out with a self-driving long range electric Motorcycle that can download all their favorite apps and iTunes...Lol! Oh, Spandi... You are SOOOO right!!! Have a bone on the Old Chopper Guy! I don't even pretend to understand the modern generation. I guess my demographic migrated toward things on wheels that made a lot of noise because we didn't have electronic toys... OOHHH... The cackle of a flathead Ford with a cam (be STILL my beating heart) the thunder of a Hog with straight-pipes... The scream of a 2-stroke kart motor at 20K rpm... The crack of a short-barreled .44 magnum pulled from yer' pants... And yes, even the mundane pop of a one-lung scoot as it goes faster and faster at the same rpm with its magic CVT tranny... Now electronic stuff can DEFINITELY be cool... (WHAT is cooler than a DRONE?). No argument there. But c'mon guys... Sweeping into the parking lot and sauntering off of a sweet 2 (or 3-wheel) ride STILL offers thrills a screen full of mega-pixels just cannot. When ya' haul yer' ride over and feel metal scrape tarmac, it just makes a guy or gal feel "alive" and "in-contact with the road..." No pun intended... HeHeHe... When I do that on Minnie, I tell her I'm just tickling her tummy to let her know I lover her... I still get more kick out of looking at Minnie Mouse's fishtail exhaust and light-up goose on her nose than searching a smart phone for some number I don't recall... Just me...Oh well, we ALL have SOMETHING that "blow our dress up"... LOL! Just make mine something that burns gasoline instead of kilowatts...Leo (well aware that "if it uses gas or lipstick, it WILL eventually give you trouble"...) in Texas Thanks Leo, but "youngins" today really don't care about car culture much ( if at all) they look at a vehicle as a way to get from point A to point B. Besides why would you actually VISIT someone when you can see them on Skype? So I guess that just leaves us to remember the good old days of blue smoke LOL! ( Still dreaming of owning the "Boothill Express" though!)... Or anything by Big Daddy Roth.
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Post by wheelbender6 on Jul 30, 2017 10:57:37 GMT -5
my son's (now in their mid and late 20's) were not excited about getting a drivers lisence. At 16, i was so excited about getting a drivers lisence that i couldnt sleep at night!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jul 31, 2017 11:23:49 GMT -5
my son's (now in their mid and late 20's) were not excited about getting a drivers lisence. At 16, i was so excited about getting a drivers lisence that i couldnt sleep at night! Wow! It's HARD to believe ANYONE wouldn't be excited about getting their license. I'm with you! I learned to ride at 12, on a fifties' Harley with foot-clutch and hand-shift. I started driving the family car at 13, having learned at 8... Dad trusted me to get groceries, take my little pals home, etc. by myself at 13. And, YES you could do that stuff back in the fifties. Especially if as a little nipper, the local police knew you weren't a jerk. Probably the lack of enthusiasm today is somewhat influenced by the cost... A crumby used junk today costs $5-grand, license tags $100 or so, and INSURANCE on a 16-year-old? I dunno... $500/month... $1,000/month? I can only guess, and it depends on the kid, and the car. A kid needs to hack credit cards and sell dope just to be "legal"... LOL!As a 10-year-old kid, I bought my first car (a "cherry" 30K-miles 1950 Chevy) for $7.50 from a church lady who stopped driving. License plates were pretty much "optional" and INSURANCE was unheard of. So... for less than ten-bucks, I was on the road. I had asked my Dad if I could have a car. He said ABSOLUTELY! I asked what kind? He said "any kind you can afford..." EEEEWWWWWWWWWW! That was a Saturday. Sunday I had my $7.50 I'd saved up toward a car (a decent used car actually DID cost between $35 and $150) and after church, I overheard this sweet lady saying she could no longer drive. I asked what she wanted for her car, which I was aware of, being mint... She asked how much I could afford. I proudly pulled out my money and showed her the five, two singles and a half-dollar. She winked at her friend, and told me that she was thinking maybe $10, but being a hard-working ten-year-old, and REALLY wanting a car, $7.50 was just fine... I drove her home, and proceeded to my own house, proudly parking the shiny old Bowtie in the drive. My Dad came home Sun. afternoon from selling real estate and asked WHERE did that nice car come from? I told him... Then, with his own family car (a totally trashed '47 Chevy) ready for the bone yard, he asked me if he could "borrow" it until I was 16, and had a license. So that ride became our family car for five years... How could I turn my own wonderful Dad down? LOL! The more I learn about modern times, the more I'd go back to the fifties in a heartbeat. Heck, I'd STILL buy that grand old Chevy "Master Deluxe" today... Even if I had to fork over the whole ten bucks! With all this texting, pot-smoking and other brain-dead behavior I see young drivers lost into, perhaps it's better that some do NOT ever get a license... LOL! Ride safe!Leo
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Post by w650 on Jul 31, 2017 19:07:10 GMT -5
First Leo, I read an ominous article written by a young guy a few years ago. "Our generation wants solar powered electric cars that are autonomous. Why should we waste time driving when we can be doing more important things." Apparently twenty somethings regard surfing the web and texting as essential life activities.
I'm loving how a generation is being blamed for Harley's sales slipping. Indian is pulling away customers as much as aging Baby Boomers not buying new Hogs is responsible. Every dog has its day and Harley will have to build newer bikes for a new generation to stay on top.
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Post by wheelbender6 on Jul 31, 2017 20:30:54 GMT -5
"I'm loving how a generation is being blamed for Harley's sales slipping." Funny. That is like blaming baby boomers for the decline of the big 3 Detroit auto makers in the 70s and eighties, W650. -I thought the Street 750 was a step in the right direction for Harley and the Street 500 was a definite improvement over the Buell Blast. The weak front brake didn't help the Street 750 very much. -American auto makers have rebounded and Harley will too. Remember when nobody under 50 drove a Cadillac?
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Post by rockynv on Aug 9, 2017 22:14:18 GMT -5
With most automakers promising that cars will drive themselves within the next few years who will need a drivers license? Driving only interferes with texting and playing Pokémon Go.
The current generation to me is the "Disposable Generation". They do not want or understand durable goods as most that rules their daily lives is tech that becomes obsolete in months or sometimes in as little as a few weeks.
Just look at cell phones. Almost gone are the days where you could get a cell phone for pennies and an unlimited plan for a family for reasonable as the "Disposable Generation" wants instant upgrades to their phone every few months or weeks the moment the new models are released adding a $20 to $40 per month per phone rental fee to the new plans to pander to their penchant for always having the latest and greatest tech.
My youngest daughter is partially among them and takes less care of household items since all are disposable and cheaply replaceable at the Dollar Store. She really did not understand when I took the jumper cables out and a few 2 inch lengths of solid copper wire and tack welded the handle back on a stainless steel mixing bowl instead of tossing it in the garbage. Did not understand until then why I had an old but still good enough car battery in the garage that could be used for tack welding either.
Freedom today is not physical but mental and virtual which the latest tech provides without having to get out of your chair never mind buying a 800 lb bike that will be replaced by a newer model in too short a time but cost so much that it can't be viewed as disposable. Impossible for the "Disposable Generation" to keep up unless Harley starts renting them on a monthly no-contract basis allowing instant upgrades to the newest model.
Indian/Polaris is staying in the game with the Retro-Chic aspect of their bikes but had to let Victory go despite Big 4 Japanese like reliability ratings. The various flavors of the Scout for those that do not want the more ponderous Chieftains has helped them too.
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Post by w650 on Aug 12, 2017 20:31:28 GMT -5
Indian/Polaris dumped Victory in the face of slipping sales and the cost to develop new engines for two brands. Indian sales exceeded Victory even though Victory was around for nineteen years to only six years under Polaris ownership. Plus it's easier to sell hype than engineering to Cruiser owners. "America's Oldest Motorcycle Company" my butt.
This isn't new sadly. Seventies Japanese bikes were replaced rather than fixed. Repairing was expensive in a shop in comparison to MSRP. Never mind any pride of ownership or loyalty to your machine.
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Post by rockynv on Aug 13, 2017 11:59:54 GMT -5
Indian/Polaris dumped Victory in the face of slipping sales and the cost to develop new engines for two brands. Indian sales exceeded Victory even though Victory was around for nineteen years to only six years under Polaris ownership. Plus it's easier to sell hype than engineering to Cruiser owners. "America's Oldest Motorcycle Company" my butt. This isn't new sadly. Seventies Japanese bikes were replaced rather than fixed. Repairing was expensive in a shop in comparison to MSRP. Never mind any pride of ownership or loyalty to your machine. That does not change the fact that they had achieved quality matching the Big4 which Harley was and is not anywhere close to doing and truth be told they were not doing that badly overseas until new Euro pollution regulations came out that blocked sale of most Victory product to the majority of the World without a radical redesign which was the final death stroke. The stiffer Euro standard caused many bike makers to drop all their VTwin Air Cooled bikes from the Euro Market (Europe, Africa and Asia) not just Victory/Polaris.
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Post by w650 on Aug 13, 2017 16:45:07 GMT -5
They have achieved the same quality with Indian, even the air cooled Chief. Victory just didn't have the same "Name" as Indian. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, a Polaris is a Polaris no matter what the badge. And as far as quality, panache is what sells sometimes. A Vespa isn't half the scooter an SMax is no matter what the size, 155 or 300. Yet when people say scooter they mean Vespa. Hype sometimes outweighs quality. It's kept Harley on top for 115 years.
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Post by wheelbender6 on Aug 13, 2017 19:52:39 GMT -5
"Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, a Polaris is a Polaris no matter what the badge." Many feel that way about the AMF Harleys.
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Post by rockynv on Aug 13, 2017 22:35:08 GMT -5
They have achieved the same quality with Indian, even the air cooled Chief. Victory just didn't have the same "Name" as Indian. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, a Polaris is a Polaris no matter what the badge. And as far as quality, panache is what sells sometimes. A Vespa isn't half the scooter an SMax is no matter what the size, 155 or 300. Yet when people say scooter they mean Vespa. Hype sometimes outweighs quality. It's kept Harley on top for 115 years. That's a personal opinion on the Vespa however when I was at the local multibrand dealer with the new Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Aprilia, Vespa, Piaggio and Eaton bikes all side by side in a row the Yamaha were not a clear winners nor were they twice the bike although they are nice bikes. The only twice I saw on the showroom floor looking at all those brands together at the same time was that you got almost twice the CC on the new Aprilia and some Piaggio models for the same price as the new Yamaha and Honda. Yes there are some TestaDura here who don't want to understand that you have to shop around and such but the deals are out there. I went shopping without any brand loyalty or bike bigotry ingrained and just shopped for best value and stumbled in during the Spring Factory Incentive Sale which if I had checked Piaggio's Web Site I would have known about in advance. No need to post MSRP lists as when you walk into a dealership those suggested prices are not carved in stone. Even a Lance or Sym for example has over a 30% margin on it ($800 to $900 markup) that can be reduced by the dealer if they want to go for profit on high volume sales. I almost signed on a Honda CTXN 700 DCT during their Garage Sale Event last year since the loss leader was on sale new for $4,999 however the DCT then had hunting and pecking issues that still existed and was not as smooth as I would have preferred plus it had that brake pedal way up front that I really do not like along with a very low seating position which after a while on the test ride made it hard on my bad left knee supporting the bike. If there were only two of the three issues allowing me to more constantly use my right leg to balance the bike I probably would have penned my name on the bottom line. Like I said I am not a brand bigot and will consider anything that is on sale for a reasonable price and meets my requirements. On Yamaha quality overall well I have helped enough people over the years with Yamaha Scooters and Motorcycles with a variety of issues that sometimes even makes the Chinese stuff from 2007 to 2009 look great and yes there were many issues that they caused themselves. Remember the Yamaha starters that would strip out every few thousand miles due to poor design, fairly recent Yamaha and Star models with factory exhausts that blocked oil filters from being changed without removal of the header pipes and requiring the replacement of frightfully expensive seals, etc, etc to call out just a few. On the old Yamaha Scooters its also quite a bit harder to find parts than on the old Piaggio unless its a Yamaha that the Chinese have cloned and kept the parts available for. None are perfect as they are contrivances of men. People call scooters Vespa generically in Italy and many other parts of the world even when its a Chinese bike just like people here call most motor homes Winnebago's because they were the first with market presence. Its sad though that some people can still mess up a 100,000 mile plus capable Piaggio powered bike and trash it at relatively low mileage. No need to post about the few that have messed up their bikes or bought one off Craigs List that somebody else already messed up and posted multiple times about it blaming everyone else on the planet for what they likely caused themselves or were cheated on by the previous owners selling the bikes to distance themselves from the problems they caused.
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