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Post by bigmac on Sept 16, 2017 19:23:58 GMT -5
Is it fixed?......
No. It's still making that strange noise. Perhaps I'll try to get a video of it at some point so you can all hear it for yourselves.
I went about 24 miles on the first ride with lots of engine loading, engine braking and changes in rpm to get the engine break-in period started. The noise was coming and going through-out the ride but didn't appear to have any effect on performance.
I don't know what to make of it. I guess I'll just keep riding and eventually let it go out in a final blaze of glory while at full throttle down a big hill.
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Post by bigmac on Aug 31, 2017 19:54:41 GMT -5
Checked the oil pump but didn't see anything that appeared worn-out, loose or broken.
I've basically gone full circle here and everything has checked out.
I have a piston kit on the way and plan to rebuild the top end now since none of the crank bearings seem to have issues. I also have new valve seals coming and plan to install them on my old cylinder head which has 69mm valve stems. I don't see how my other head could be the source of the noise but will swap it out anyways.
One time my kick start lever wouldn't spring back up after being pushed down. I removed the CVT cover and found nothing wrong with its return spring. I disassembled the kick start to check everything and found nothing. I reassembled it just as it was before and it worked fine. It's like my scooter is cursed and will randomly not work for no apparent reason. Hopefully this will be the case with the weird noise.
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Post by bigmac on Aug 27, 2017 10:37:42 GMT -5
The last few 3 or so times for me it was the rod bearing, so even when I checked the shafts it didn't matter. Were you able to feel movement when it was the rod bearing? I can look at mine since my top end is off and the rod is sticking out of the crankcase. I grabbed it and tried moving it forward and backward but didn't feel any looseness between it and the crankshaft. The rod can be slightly moved side-to-side but I heard that's normal. Also, since you have experience with taking the cranks out of these engines, is there anything at all you could think of that could come loose in there? In a gy6 service manual, I see a diagram of an oil pump on the flywheel side of the crankcase. It shows a gear, a washer, a nut, O-rings and bolts around the oil pump. Makes me wonder if there's any chance something is worn or has come loose around that area and is making the noise. If so, maybe it's causing oil to not get pumped to the top end as well which would explain my sudden valve oil seal failure on the cylinder head.
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Post by bigmac on Aug 26, 2017 23:40:10 GMT -5
I was just roaming around youtube before bed when I came across this video. I wish the guy recording it didn't rev the engine as much so we could hear it at idle more but this video is exactly like what you'd see if I uploaded a video of my problem. Unlike the first video, the engine in this one sounds fine then makes a weird noise for a bit. The person who uploaded it claims this happened after replacing the crankshaft and he nor anyone in the comment section has figured out the problem.
I went back out in the garage and really started yanking on the ends of the shaft in all directions but I can't feel any hint of movement. The guy who uploaded the video claims he's positive nothing was wrong with the new crankshaft. If true, then maybe there is something else going on here.
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Post by bigmac on Aug 26, 2017 20:28:45 GMT -5
By any chance, did you try grabbing hold of the crank and seeing if you could feel movement in the bearings when you had that problem? I ask this because I did take the flywheel off today and couldn't feel movement anymore. Maybe it's possible the bearings are worn enough that they make noise but aren't noticeably loose when the shaft is pushed up, down and side-to-side.
I noticed my spark plug was oily so I thought maybe a piston ring was worn or broken and that's how oil was getting to it and maybe even the cause of the noise I hear. However, I took the top end apart today and didn't see anything wrong with the piston, its rings or the cylinder walls. Only thing I saw was some slight scuffing on the piston.
Maybe it's getting in there from a bad valve stem oil seal. I had that happen before. Is there a way to test it? Could I pure oil into the intake port and tilt the cylinder head and see if the oil leaks out around the seal? The head has about 4,000 miles on it. That's pretty crappy if it's seals are worn after only that many miles.
I have to admit, it's getting embarrassing now. Any of my friends and family who know about this scooter look at me like I'm one of those pathetic men in a terrible relationship who just won't get out and keeps trying to make it work when it obviously won't.
I think it's also getting harder for me because I have had a 2012 Yamaha Zuma 125 for about three years now and have had zero issues with it. I bought it used for $2,099. If someone invested the amount of time needed to keep a Chinese scooter running into a minimal wage job, he could easily make enough money to buy a Japanese scooter and never have to deal with crankshafts and cylinder heads wearing out with less than a few thousand miles. You could probably buy a non-Chinese scooter from the 1980's for the same or less than a brand new Chinese scooter and it would last many times longer than a new Chinese scooter.
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Post by bigmac on Aug 25, 2017 15:46:36 GMT -5
lhumpolick - I'm in Massachusetts. But if you would be interested then surely someone more close by to me could be, as well. I'm thinking of removing the engine and parting it out, then selling the rest of the scooter as an engine swap project bike.
onewheeldrive - The possibility that the slight movement I feel is actually from the flywheel moving on the shaft crossed my mind. I thought about taking it off but just can't bring myself to take any time to get the flywheel puller and spanner wrench out and do it. Which brings up the main problem I'm faced with, and that is I don't care. As chewbaca pointed out, the whole engine could be rebuilt or replaced fairly cheaply but after so many issues and bad experiences, I don't care anymore. I've lost my patience and no longer find fixing this thing enjoyable or worth while. It just feels like a waste of time, effort and money since a new problem is always bound to occur 100 or less miles down the road.
I've gone maybe three miles since the noise started and I haven't noticed it getting any worse. I don't really have a way to record the sound. Everyone seems to have phones that can record and upload videos these days but I have a $10 Tracfone I bought at Kmart about 10 years ago so I don't have such capabilities. However, I did search youtube for "gy6 noise" videos and found one that makes the same noise as mine. The audio doesn't seem too great, but listen closely at the 0:36 mark. You'll hear a noise suddenly appear then disappear at about 0:43. Mine is just like that, comes and goes every few seconds or so.
Oh, and by the way, I was too late on the order cancellation. My new starter clutch should be in the mailbox any day now. I'm so excited. Edit: I actually got the mail about an hour after posting this and it was in there. I guess I'll have one more part to sell.
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Post by bigmac on Aug 22, 2017 21:46:38 GMT -5
This has been ridiculous.
I ordered a camshaft and the seller sent me one for a 150cc. I had to return it at my own expense for a refund.
Finally, I got the right camshaft from a different seller and installed it.
I pressed the starter button... nothing but metal grinding noises from the starter clutch. Turns out the gear that's spun by the pinion gear on the starter motor was worn and so I ordered a new starter clutch.
A few hours after placing the order, I remembered that I still had an old starter clutch and decided to try it out. I knew if it still worked well enough to start the engine, I'd be able to see if the camshaft fixed the problem.
It did work and the engine started. However, the noise is still there so the engine is trashed.
I put in a request to cancel the order on the starter clutch but don't know if it's too late at this time.
So it's official - the crankshaft bearings are worn. I even grabbed the flywheel and pushed up, down and side-to-side on it and felt a little movement so I assume it's the bearings on the right side of the engine since I've tried this with the drive plate in the CVT and didn't feel any movement.
Now I need to figure out what I should do next. I don't care for fixing it or even getting a whole new engine since I'm disgusted with how many problems this scooter has given me during its short 6,000 mile lifespan. No one will buy a Chinese scooter that needs a new crankshaft, even if it is super cheap so I'm probably better off taking it apart and selling each part individually.
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Post by bigmac on Aug 8, 2017 14:21:43 GMT -5
Figured I'd post an update on the situation.
I ordered and installed a new clutch assembly so now the whole transmission is definitely good to go. I also checked those three bolts that can come loose and rub against the clutch assembly but they were all set. The noise is still there though. I don't know how a noise that sounds so much like it's coming from the CVT isn't really coming from there.
I even took it on a short ride and can actually feel a difference in the performance of the CVT. The clutch pads grab onto the bell better and the acceleration feels better and smoother. As for the wheel turning at lower rpms than before, it was just the driveshaft moving a little from the clutch assembly rotating around it and not the clutch pads catching the bell. It stops turning if I place a figure against the tire.
Some of you might be wondering, "why would you suspect bad crankshaft bearings on an engine with only 6,000 miles?" Well, the reason why and I know many others have made this mistake, too, is that I followed the poorly translated owners manual and didn't correctly interpret the section about checking the oil level. The owners manual said, "do not wrist the dipstick". Apparently, that's their way of saying, "don't screw it in". So for awhile I was ridding around with too low of an oil level until I eventually found out the correct way to check it online.
I'm sure this ruined the oil seals on my cylinder head which is why I had to replace the head already but I likely have excessive wear on other parts as well. I took the camshaft out today and found the bearings on the side closest to the gear have some wiggle and I can feel vibration when I spin it by hand. I plan to order a new one and see if it fixes the noise problem.
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Post by bigmac on Jul 17, 2017 22:48:45 GMT -5
The parts are in and have been installed. It's weird, now I hear "a" noise but it's doesn't seem to be "the" noise that I had before. However, it's definitely coming from the clutch side so I know where to look.
The strange thing about the noise is that it's not constant. I hear it for a few seconds then it disappears for a few seconds than returns and so on. It does this at idle or when I rev it up some to get the back wheel turning.
Speaking of revving up to turn the back wheel, I think something is wrong with when my clutch engages, but I'm guessing it's because of the weights I put in. Not knowing what my old rollers were, I went with 7g rollers and now my rear wheel starts to move at about 2,500rpm when it wasn't until about 3,000rpm before. This would be fine except the engine likes to idle at around 3,000rpm until the choke is fully off and the idle speed drops to about 1,900rpm. It'll be like having the scooter stuck on cruise control until it warms up.
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Post by bigmac on Jul 8, 2017 11:34:59 GMT -5
I'm guessing new rollers and belt will most likely take care of it. As I said in an earlier post, the noise is almost gone with the belt off so if it were crankshaft bearings, then it should still be just as noisy with or without the belt and if it was the clutch, then the noise should be completely gone since that doesn't move at all with the belt off.
I've ordered the parts. They should be here in about a week. We'll see what happens.
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Post by bigmac on Jul 6, 2017 14:36:31 GMT -5
The gy6 service manual I mentioned before says the torque spec for this nut is 28ft lbs. That isn't all that much, especially compared to how tight it was on before. What do you guys usually torque it down to? I want to make sure it doesn't come loose when I finally get it back together.
Motonosity, a youtuber I often watch did a Honda Ruckus build series and he had this nut come loose. You can hear about it at the 15:45 mark of this video.
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Post by bigmac on Jul 5, 2017 21:30:49 GMT -5
Aside from being a bit dirty, nothing on the variator side of the CVT looked worn-out or broken. The only thing wrong from what I could tell is that most of the roller weights have flat spots so I'd like to get a new set of them. I don't know what the weights are when stock. Whatever I have now works well for me and seem to give a good middle ground between having decent acceleration and top speed. Most ebay sellers have 8.5g rollers.
I have a gy6 service manual that says the drive belt should be 18mm in width and should be replaced after it goes beyond 17mm. Mine is at 16mm so I'll like to get a new belt. I currently have a Gates Power Link which I heard is a good brand for these gy6 CVTs so I'll get another one.
$20 impact wrench? I didn't look around a whole lot but the cheapest one I came across was a $35 air powered one with pretty lousy reviews. And it didn't even come with an adapter to hook it up to a compressor. I was about to get it anyways but changed my mind after seeing this video. The guy said he tried both an electric and air powered impact wrench on the nut with no luck. Eventually, he got it free by basically doing the same thing I did. Plus, I already had all the stuff on hand but the impact socket and 1/2 drive socket wrench which I just borrowed from my brother so it didn't cost me anything.
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Post by bigmac on Jul 4, 2017 12:04:10 GMT -5
With a 1/2 inch drive impact socket, 5 foot long pipe for leverage, spanner wrench wedged against the floor to keep the shaft from turning and a 210+lbs man sitting on the scooter to keep the scooter from lifting up off the floor by the spanner wrench's handle while turning the nut loose (which was still almost not enough to weigh it down), I was finally able to get the nut off.
Now I can take it apart and see what's wrong.
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Post by bigmac on Jun 15, 2017 20:24:08 GMT -5
No, I haven't removed the variator before and I know the person who had it before me didn't either. I took the CVT cover off three times in the past. Twice to fix a problem with the kick start and once to replace the starter clutch. There is always black dust in the case from the belt, which I cleanup whenever I have the cover off but I haven't noticed any particles that appear to be from metal.
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Post by bigmac on Jun 14, 2017 14:01:53 GMT -5
I was going to take it apart today and check the things that have been suggested I look into but couldn't get the nuts off.
As I said before, I recently replaced the magneto and to remove the nut on the crankshaft, I used a spanner wrench that holds the flywheel still so I can turn the nut without the shaft moving. I once again used that spanner wrench to hold the flywheel still so that the crankshaft wouldn't move while removing the nut on the transmission side of the shaft but even with two feet of leverage and banging it with a rubber mallet, the nut remains stuck.
I think I'll need an impact wrench to get this apart. I've always managed to get even the most stuck fasteners free with WD-40 and some good hits with a rubber mallet on the handle of the wrench but this thing was apparently put on by Hercules or something.
Edit: Just to make sure, the nuts for the variator and clutch are not reverse threaded are they? I turned left (counterclockwise) while taking the nut for the flywheel off but is the threading on the variator side of the crankshaft opposite, so I should turn right (clockwise) to unthread it?
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