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Post by w650 on Apr 20, 2017 18:03:04 GMT -5
Scooters weren't designed to go fast, there are better means of transportation to achieve that goal, scooters where designed to get around town cheaply, large displacement scooters get out of that scope, they are usually not cheap. I do try to make my scooter go faster, but that's just a hobby, not a necessity for me. You're absolutely right but you would be stunned how many times I've read about people bragging how they beat a motorcycle. They're totally convinced that a scooter is just as fast in all situations as a bike. So not true, as the video I posted showed. Given equal riders a scooter loses in contests of speed. Scooters certainly have their place and are enjoyable, practical and a good utility device. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 20, 2017 15:39:28 GMT -5
Upping tire pressure won't overcome the basic problem with scooter handling. Rear weight bias is so severe from the configuration it slants everything about the handling. Review the video where the Kawasaki blows past and away from the BMW C 650 on a twisty road. The best scooter in the Country couldn't keep a 650 twin in sight. Ask yourself how bad it would have been had the bike rider been on a 600cc Crotch Rocket like a CBR or Ninja 600.
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Post by w650 on Apr 16, 2017 10:35:39 GMT -5
As previously noted, a scooter was conceived as a two wheeled car. A motorcycle wasn't.
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Post by w650 on Apr 16, 2017 10:19:35 GMT -5
A scooter, excepting certain ones with separate engine/drive configuration, will always be at a disadvantage in terms of handling. The engine in a scooter is directly under the rider which gives it something like a 70/30 weight distribution. A motorcycle has it further forward putting weight distribution at close to 50/50. Also most scooters are belt drive leading to friction loss. Bikes all have solid drive. Scooters have trunks, bikes don't which is what makes a scooter a better grocery getter against a bike with no rear trunk or saddlebags.
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Post by w650 on Apr 16, 2017 6:44:01 GMT -5
I just saw this. It might be another reason large displacement scooters aren't so popular.
So here is an update on my Burgman 650 that the CVT belt broke on quite a few months ago. Finally saved up some $ and brought it to the only Suzuki dealer within an hour of me Spaceport Cycles in Titusville Fl. I was told it would cost $1100 for the repair ($400 for belt and $700 for labor) which seemed reasonable. I was told when I dropped it off it would take 3 weeks, 1 to tear it down, 1 to order parts, 1 to put back together. Seemed a little excessive for a dealer but after waiting for several months I figured, what's 3 more weeks. I called after the first week to get an update and was told they hadn't started but would be first on the list on Tuesday. Two more weeks went past with no word, so I called this past Wednesday and once again was told they hadn't started on it yet, but was first on the list for the following morning, I told them if it wasn't I was going to come and pick it up. I called the following day to hear yet another excuse but was told they had to talk to their mechanic who was on a test ride to find out what was going on and would get a call back. At this point I figured as usual I wouldn't get a call back as I had been promised so many times before, but 10 minutes later I got a call telling me it would be done/finished tomorrow on Friday, I waited until a half hour before closing and asked why I didn't get a call and was told "it was a very eventful day here" and the bike was almost finished just had to put a few things back together and would definitely be finished first thing in the morning and I would be getting a call in the morning. We'll Saturday has come and to no surprise I didn't get a call.
This is the reason I almost always do my own repairs on everything, I hate this feeling of helplessness, being at their mercy, and this is a place that had all good reviews, and recommendations from coworkers who live in the area. Unfortunately it is an hour away or I would have been at their door a long time ago. Can't wait for Tuesdays excuse, of course they're closed on Monday so I have to wait some more.
I understand why people go "postal" sometimes.
I don't care if it was going to take a few more weeks, just wish they would be honest and stop playing me for a fool.
— feeling aggravated.
$400 for a belt? $700 for labor. Yikes!
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Post by w650 on Apr 15, 2017 9:28:47 GMT -5
But consider that the motorcycle equivalent when your scooter was built was either a Honda Rebel or Kawasaki Ninja. The Ninja put out twice the ponies and peaked at 94 mph. Even a good running Rebel would do 80 mph. With manual gearboxes and positive drive they both accelerate harder and are better balanced.
Yes a scooter has storage and is easier to ride but at any capacity it's at a disadvantage to an equivalent sized bike.
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Post by w650 on Apr 14, 2017 17:06:00 GMT -5
I think the problem here is there is little common ground between bikers and scooter owners. One hypothesis is that bikers are related to the cowboys of the past while scooter owners are auto drivers seeking better gas mileage.
Cyborg's point of view comes from his motorcyclist side. As the video shows a motorcycle is faster, handles better and is a thrill ride. It also shows that the BMW is a useful carrier of cargo, an excellent around town machine with its automatic transmission and a comfortable ride on the road.
The person who chooses either over the other has leanings only one of the machines satisfies. Horses for courses.
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Post by w650 on Apr 13, 2017 15:02:00 GMT -5
Finally as to "The rest of us" (A majority of one?) May I again point out this forum was started as a place for CHINESE riders, and not the other way 'round. If that is not to your liking, I'm sure you can find many OTHER blogs in which you will have the opportunity to vent your fructose-fueled phantasmagoric assertions of vehicular superiority.
Alright Gentlemen let's dial it back a notch. This particular forum descended from Scootdawg where any brand scooter owner was welcome. I won't pretend that for many years I was particularly defensive about having my Chinese scooters labeled as trash. Having one for nine years and the second for five has made me more secure in their usefulness. Others have not enjoyed my success.
Everybody enjoys success in certain areas. Some people are ALWAYS in the right place at the right time. It's Karma. Many of us just stumble through life paying retail because the bargains either don't present themselves when we need them or just don't happen.
I've been around a long time and it doesn't matter what scooter you own, Chinese or Brand Name, they all break sooner or later. How soon or how bad depends on the rider. This forum is for everyone to come to, give or get advice and relate their experiences. The days of flaming people and posturing is behind us. We all enjoy riding scooters and working on them. Keep that in mind.
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Post by w650 on Apr 13, 2017 9:29:59 GMT -5
Yet Suzuki, Yamaha, Piaggio and Honda are pressing on. Sorry Rocky but a quick check will show that with the exception of the BMW C650, Burgman 650 and 400 and BV 350 the biggest scooters are stuck at 300. Yamaha has dropped the Majesty and TMax in this country as has Honda with the Silverwing. If Honda or any of the other Big 4 introduce a 300cc or smaller bike with DCT big scooters are toast. DCT is the next variator and Honda has it down pat. Even Aprilia had to drop the Mana in the face of the NC 700. The problem with bargains is that they almost never pop up when you need them. If I needed a scooter tomorrow and I couldn't wait months for a Garage Sale or Clearance Special then I would have to pay retail with maybe a slight discount. Bargains like yours don't happen every day. I also have a hard time believing that Piaggio dropped the Sport City because it outperformed the BV 250. Same bike, same engine with the same MSRP. If the Sport City was such a hot seller it would be shooting themselves in the foot to cut it off. Money in the bank is money in the bank. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ApriliaAprilia is an Italian motorcycle company, one of the marques owned by Piaggio. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 12, 2017 16:24:30 GMT -5
Here's an honest comparison. The best scooter in America against motorcycle competition.
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Post by w650 on Apr 12, 2017 9:11:32 GMT -5
I saw pictures over at MV of guys using and finishing the Barstow to Vegas ride on Chinese scooters. They figured if they broke them it was no big deal so they flogged them over the course. And finished.
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Post by w650 on Apr 11, 2017 19:22:25 GMT -5
Cramped if you're taller than 5' 10". Otherwise it's a great bike without any sins. Fuel mileage around 70 mpg and quick enough from a stop. I wouldn't flinch on taking it on a Tour. With the its bags and windshield mine would be good for any trip. Not to mention that the original design was virtually untouched but refined for a mere 30 years. With its simple design and durable nature it would last as long as anyone would want to keep it.
There are very few scooters that can make that claim. It reminds me of a 650cc TR-6 Triumph.
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No Way
by: w650 - Apr 11, 2017 11:00:35 GMT -5
Post by w650 on Apr 11, 2017 11:00:35 GMT -5
The bigger issue is that inexperienced riders need time to develop. I had the advantage of dirt riding at an early age. Those reflexes aren't far from the surface. I scared a friend of mine who was following me down a dirt road on a tour. I hit loose dirt which pitched the bike into a slide. Instead of slowing down I simply brought it back into line with more throttle. My buddy was appalled at the sight of a 600 pound shafty going forward, sideways, at 40 mph. I just shrugged.
Of course the first thing I had to unlearn was putting my foot down around a corner the first time I took my Dad's 650 BSA out for a ride on the street. It all came together eventually.
New riders need to develop the senses it takes to survive. An MSF class is a good start but only time burns skills into a synapse.
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Post by w650 on Apr 11, 2017 5:41:50 GMT -5
I'll have to back pedal myself on this too. I recalled late last night that when CF Moto was clearing house back in 2010 a 150,000 mile capable Fashion 250 could be had for $1500. Their equally reliable 150s were going for a mere $1100 with water cooling and fuel injection. Mine was one of those and I picked it up with 1800 miles for $1200. So I guess you can find a bargain under the right circumstances. I got my 250 for the price of a good 50cc China scoot. www.scootersus.com/cfmoto.html |
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Post by w650 on Apr 10, 2017 19:15:56 GMT -5
I think the problem here is there is little common ground between bikers and scooter owners. One hypothesis is that bikers are related to the cowboys of the past while scooter owners are auto drivers seeking better gas mileage.
I have both but I lean mostly towards my biker side. Here's my biggest sticking point. Cost.
In 2008 my late wife and I picked up her Honda Rebel for $3350. At the time both the Helix and Reflex were going for $5500. (Don't start with the "Oh, you could chew them down on the scooters." We're talking straight up MSRP.)
I stand on this rock. No scooter will last as long or stand up to day to day use better than a Rebel. Yes, I have to shift, but with bags and a windshield it is just as useful.
To a biker it's a no brainer. To a scooter devotee the $2000 is worth it. It's not just apples-oranges, it's points of view.
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