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Post by w650 on Apr 26, 2017 15:08:35 GMT -5
The event is more a test of scooter than of rider. The days are only 300 miles but their evenings are filled with repairs, maintenance and preparation for the next day. The reason that Japanese scooters generally triumph is that they're less finicky. I mean REALLY, many of these people have to do belt replacements on a short 4,000 mile trip. I'm sure a bigger 650 scooter might not suffer but it's pretty amazing that an $7000 250 scooter needs to be fettle and coaxed to the finish. Here, read the Official thread, modernvespa.com/forum/topic148186?highlight=2016+scooter+cannonball+run |
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Post by w650 on Apr 26, 2017 8:40:35 GMT -5
An honest to Pete three speed gearbox that can be thumb shifted and fit in the final drive box. I have a 50cc Kymco Like and a four speed 50cc Honda clone minimotorcycle. The minibike is so much faster than the scooter it's crazy. On a level road it will do 55 mph and sips gas (135 mpg). I know it's not possible but a gearbox would make a scooter ten times better.
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Post by w650 on Apr 25, 2017 15:23:26 GMT -5
And just to be fair I will admit that Bill Leuthold calculated out the raw speeds for the event. His Vespa was fastest at 65 mph average. But here's the kicker. The 1986 Helix and 155cc Yamaha were both next with averages of 64 mph. Just 1 mph less on a cross country run. So the Vespa scarcely out-sped a 1986 carbureted scooter and a much smaller engined one. What you can glean from that is this. A well tuned 250 Vespa reaches about  mph flat out. A 155cc Yamaha can reach about 81 mph. A new 300cc Vespa doesn't go any faster than a 250cc Vespa at twice the cost of the Yamaha with half the engine. Plus a 1986 Japanese scooter is nearly as fast and just as solid. Japan quietly wins again in the two wheeled world. What I'd like to see next time would be a handicap system that lets a BV-350 in along with a 400 Burgman and maybe one 300cc motorcycle. Now that would be a contest worth watching. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 25, 2017 14:46:58 GMT -5
The points system is a handicap equalizer. It just makes the event fair. Otherwise people would just emulate the 2012 winner who stuck a Ninja motor in a scooter. It wouldn't be a scooter event anymore since scooters aren't really the best at long distance. They're made for the short haul.
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Post by w650 on Apr 24, 2017 17:14:54 GMT -5
I would think that many bikes would easily match a maxi scoot for cargo carrying carrying capacity. Many have large trunks and saddlebags. www.kawasaki.com/Products/2017-Vulcan-1700-Voyager-ABSOr this at $2000 less than a 650 Burgman. www.kawasaki.com/Products/2017-Versys-650-LTLT models come equipped with a set of color-matched 28 liter (each) hard saddlebags featuring KQR™ mounts, an integrated mounting system that utilizes the ignition key for simple saddlebag unlocking and removalI'm sure a Versys could also be outfitted with a large trunk also. Not to mention that just about any motorcycle could be equipped cheaply with cargo carrying capability much like my Rebel with its soft bags making it the equal of my scooters. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 24, 2017 15:40:41 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Apr 24, 2017 15:28:37 GMT -5
I may suffer from a severe case of F.I.M. if I dont clarify. I would love to ride against any other 1986 250cc scooter from any other manufacturer. I just can't see how there could be a lot of difference between my Jap Trap and a Pasta can..... Or is there? You will be pleased to know that a 1986 Honda Helix, with a carburetor, thrashed a 2007 Vespa and a Yamaha SMax in the 2016 Scooter Cannonball Run even with their fuel injection and four valves per cylinder. Numerous more modern scooters spent the event in the Helix's wake. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 24, 2017 10:43:30 GMT -5
I don't see the advantage of two wheel drive in a street scooter. Maybe to balance the weight bias more towards a motorcycle but little else. Christini starting selling a two wheel drive dirt bike a few years ago but it didn't set the world on fire. I can't imagine the effect on handling with that unit hanging on the front wheel but it can't be good.
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Post by w650 on Apr 23, 2017 20:45:28 GMT -5
It doesn't take long to discover that the majority of people over there don't do their own work. The wobble was almost universal even with their dealers supplying the tires. The problem is the result of nutty forks and weight bias. I'm sure the antiquated sheet metal frame exaggerates the problem. Fortunately Piaggio was wise enough to copy the tube frame and Tupperware the Japanese introduced on other products. It's allowed them to deal with the inherent problem of a rear engine unweighting the front wheel more constructively.
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Post by w650 on Apr 23, 2017 18:08:28 GMT -5
Front end wobble aside, the handling of a scooter will always suffer in comparison to a bike. A bike is better laid out with no compromise to final drive.
A quick check over at Modern Vespa will reveal that front end wobble was a major problem for the large framed scooters from the GT 200 through the GTS 300. It has been quelled lately on new scooters but shows that even Piaggio with over 70 years of scooter building under their belt has issues with the weight bias problem regardless of tire type or inflation. And those puppies are not cheap either.
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Post by w650 on Apr 22, 2017 12:09:25 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Apr 22, 2017 11:04:38 GMT -5
Scooters smoke any vehicle filtering on busy traffic, and smoke any motorcycle carrying stuff; that's exactly what they were designed to do. You mean carrying stuff like this?  |
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Post by w650 on Apr 21, 2017 21:02:20 GMT -5
As a scooter owner that may be true for you. Out in the world there are numerous bikes zipping through standing traffic and carrying goods in their luggage.
People who ride either are loyal. They both serve a purpose. I have both.
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Post by w650 on Apr 21, 2017 14:00:49 GMT -5
What real good though is a street bike that does over the maximum legal speed limit in first gear? There is only one road in the USA where it is legal to go over 80 mph and its a relatively short rural streatch of highway out in the middle of nowhere.
Okay. Let's try this again. Go back and watch the video of an $8000 Kawasaki 650 Versys smoking a $10,000 BMW 600 on a twisty road and in a drag. As a grocery getter a scooter is a great device. As an interstate vehicle or backroad bullet any scooter will be hindered by both its plastic coating and rearward weight bias. A passing truck will cause great consternation to a scooter in its wake. I recall a story years ago about a 650 Burgman owner stating "Never again" on using one on a highway tour. Even a Honda Rebel is more stable in that environment.
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Post by w650 on Apr 21, 2017 9:14:09 GMT -5
Scooters were meant as an economical (not fast) way to get around. For example, as a grocery getter, or for the ease of parking when Cosco is having a big sale and you can't find a space to save your life... ( a space for a CAR that is.) Quite true. On the basis of small scooters it all makes sense. Good 50cc scooters can be had for around $1500 and will work. Online sellers saw the folly of selling bigger scooters and are going motorcycle. They just make sense as highway capable, cheap transportation. |
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mph flat out. A 155cc Yamaha can reach about 81 mph. A new 300cc Vespa doesn't go any faster than a 250cc Vespa at twice the cost of the Yamaha with half the engine. Plus a 1986 Japanese scooter is nearly as fast and just as solid.
