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Post by rockynv on May 2, 2017 3:30:50 GMT -5
A small scoop under the belly pan would probable provide more airflow as would an inlet scoop on the blower housing with the added plus that they would not tax an already marginal electrical system or add more moving parts to fail. Think of passive options that do not require maintenance or putting addition loads on the electrical system.
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Post by rockynv on May 1, 2017 4:14:42 GMT -5
Some use that method however it could introduce dirt into the cylinder and if the engine spins enough could bend the valves however the issue I have is that it can distort some of the more delicate piston tops and if not packed evenly wedge the piston and an angle damaging the cylinder wall. Odd how some who do this drop a valve or prematurely have to replace a piston/rings/cylinder or at the least have to start adding more oil between oil changes to the bike than they did before.
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Post by rockynv on May 1, 2017 4:07:25 GMT -5
The PC fan likely would only be of any benefit when standing still and would probably do more to block air flow once you were moving. On most of the more well thought out bikes that panel already has louvers near the bottom to give it some airflow however without any fins on the valve cover the final impact on engine temperatures would be extremely minor if at all measureable. The real cooling of the return oil comes from the airflow around the timing chain area where the oil pumped up through the cylinder and head returns to the sump.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 30, 2017 16:48:13 GMT -5
Looks like that 62 Cush was originally a step thru model. -The Husky verticAL engine was replaced with a more modern slanted cylinder engine, which took up all the foot room. -Fuel tank was added up top to balance the appearance and foot pegs were added. -Just my theory. The Eagle did not have the box bracing up front like the step through. Here are some examples of what an Eagle looks like even after an engine upgrade:
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Post by rockynv on Apr 30, 2017 16:37:39 GMT -5
H-1 500 Tripple, Fast but a rickety frame Snit Box. My 71&1/2 Drag Racer. They earned the Widow Maker moniker with those rickety frames especially on the early ones.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 30, 2017 16:25:52 GMT -5
Piston - This is all to common an occurance out there on the street. And yes most riders should not be out there on a bike. I have mentioned this before however at least half the riders who were at the MSF class I attended when I got my Florida Motorcycle Endorsement were there to get their bikes out of impound for riding without a license. Many could not pass the Basic Riders Course and failed on the first day out on the training grounds.
To be fair some riders although they followed the book did see this level of sprocket wear in a few thousand miles making one wonder if they simply got into a bad batch of them or some fake oem look-a-likes. Possibly the tire techs not aligning the rear wheel properly could be to blame in some instances too. Some seem like their tuning a banjo starting at the highest pitched string when they adjust a chain.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 30, 2017 7:43:56 GMT -5
A pretty hot 50cc scooter is the Aprilia or Derby DiTech which are getting pretty common on Craigs List and 55 mph capable. DiTech means Direct Fuel Injection Technology. Pretty reliable unless you tune them to race against 150cc bikes.
With a little work the Spree can make an interesting ride if the speed limitation works for you and they will run on for about forever if you leave well enough alone and keep them close to bone stock.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 30, 2017 7:37:11 GMT -5
This is a hot topic however plugging a motorcycle or scooter tire is a temporary fix to get you to the tire shop for a replacement tire or at least a patch installed by removing the tire, grinding the area around the puncture from behind and cold vulcanizing a patch on from behind. The issue is not in the 50% that will have no problems but becoming one of those few among the other 50% that have a catastrophic failure afterwards instead of just an irritating slow leak. Are you willing to risk life to save the cost of a scooter tire.
You mention Bible Study so you should be aware that Safety Regulations started there with laws even covering the need to have a safety rail around a raised terrace or porch to prevent injury or death. Even causing the death of another in an accident would require fleeing to a city of refuge because a life had been lost due to your actions and staying there until the death of the current High Priest which could be a very long or very short time off depending on the age and health of the High Priest. We are not under the old law code but it shows the high value of life that was held under that law and is something to consider when taking risks that could harm ourselves or others. You may want to consider this at a future study session but refrain from continuing it in any depth here.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 30, 2017 7:17:22 GMT -5
W650 - You said "I lubed the chain every 200 miles in daily use" which on a motorcyle is at every gas stop or on some with the double sized tanks you'd be stopping halfway to your next gas stop and lubricating the chain.
Fire rescue paramedics that I have spoken too in person tell me that easily 25% of single vehicle motorcycle accidents involve chain failure however they only account for about 3% of the fatal motorcycle accidents since many involve the chain failing while starting off from a stop and the rider falling over from the sudden loss of power or sudden stop if it jambs up.
Sprocket wear - These pretty much exemplify what I have been seeing over the past 40 some odd years:
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Post by rockynv on Apr 28, 2017 23:29:16 GMT -5
Lubing the chain at just about every gas stop does not sound very appealing compared to cleaning a filter every 2,000 to 3,000 miles and changing a belt every 12,500 miles. To go 12,500 miles on a Piaggio Scooter your talking about 4 to 6 filter cleanings, 2 oil changes and a belt change while your talking about 60 chain services and more oil changes to offset the wet clutch contaminants to cover the same distance. Even if the chain lasts twice as long as the belt your talking about over 122 services to cover 25,000 miles on the motorcycle compared to about a dozen on the scooter. Yes I undestand that some folks mess up their scooters and get less than stellar belt service intervals on thier Piaggio bikes however if they followed the rules 100% they could get the same level of reliability that I have been getting as I have no magic touch and just follow whats printed in the service station manual for the most part and a few tips from the service bulletins that the Piaggion trained mechs at the local dealerships have shared with me.
You're not making a very good case for the motorcycle as the numbers you've presented are a bit overwhelming.
Go with what works for you is probably the best I can leave it at.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 28, 2017 4:05:57 GMT -5
I personally have never witnessed a catastrophic chain failure in 55 years but I know they exist. In the years of being on scooter forums tales of belt failures are legion. It's exposed to heat from the engine, the friction of CVT operation and the stress of engagement. In my salad days I went to many bike nights and witnessed numerous mindless displays that left chains intact. Yours is the first time time I've ever heard of people riding long distances on scooters. It's good to hear it's happening but I wonder why I almost never hear of it in a place like Modern Vespa. Motorcycle stories are everywhere. I've done some long rides on the CF Moto but given my 750 Kawasaki has shaft drive I wouldn't even consider a scooter for an extended trip. It's a much better option. The motorcycles I have dealt with over the years were all prone to the foibles of chain drives. Chains slinging grease, stretching, breaking, wearing the sprockets thin stripping off teath, etc. You tour on a Motorcycle and you bring repair links and a chain press tool ensuring before you leave that there is enough adjustment left to make it through the trip. Was a problem on the 50cc mopeds and still had to be considered on the Norton Commando 850 that I rode. Riders cope by waxing the chains instead of oiling them, going to double o-rings instead of single, cooking them in a pot on the stove to get the oil grease out and suck the new in as the pot and chain cools. There always seems to be some new wiz bang cleaning system being hawked to help deal with the issue too. Then there is the issue with the rubber damper inside the hub of the wheel that the driven sprocket is attached to failing and having to be replaced to consider too. Motorcycles are not perfect and the multitude of problems one faces with a chain driven motorcycle was one of the design issues Piaggio was trying to overcome when they came up with the first Vespa. My next door neighbor was happy as a clam in a fresh mud bank when he traded his chain drive for a Boxer Engined BMW sport touring bike with a shaft drive. Those hugh heads sticking out the sides throwing all that heat and such aren't my cup of tea but it is a really silent running bike. I told him to stop talking and breathing so I could hear the engine running the first time he showed it to me and that really wasn't a very big exageration the thing was so quiet and civilized. Anyways no bike is perfect and you have to find the one that you can best deal with. People though are people and some no matter how hard they try just mess things up when they deal with mechanical devices. In an endurance rally you have to be on top of your preventative maintenance, personal health and have your route and alternates well planned out before you even show up at the starting line if you want to have a good chance of crossing the finish line riding on the bike and not in the cab of a retrieval vehicle. The scooter I ride is designed for highway running at a constant 75 mph though its capable of more and has a service schedule for oil changes and belt services that basically allows one to ride from coast to coast twice per oil change, 4 times before belt changes and 8 times between valve adjustment checks. Many will mess up and kill a belt prior to that simply by failing to check the filter or by using alternate belts. Some cause their belts to fail sooner, and I know some will have fits at my even hinting at the thought of this, by changing the contra springs to heavier ones in their clutch which lets face it is going to raise the clamping force on the sides of the belt raising it operating temperature and causing it to wear out more rapidly along with raise the chances of wearing grooves in the drive faces. You cut the cooling fins off the drive face to eliminate rotating mass on the crankshaft (thats really just for short track and drag racing) and again you've shot yourself in the foot and started down the path to early belt failure by reducing clean air flowing though the CVT case. Then there is the crowd that balks at using the correct tools to install a variator and clutch causing their own problems introducing wobbles, etc by setting torques incorrectly, etc. How many fail to perform the simple task of putting a dab of grease in the needle bearings that the clutch idles on? Its all the little details of maintenance that become the big issues with reliability on the road.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 27, 2017 12:43:36 GMT -5
We have riders running from the Vespa GT200 up to the Scarabeo 500 from Clearwater to as far as Prudhoe Bay in Northern Alaska and back with very few issues. Some are touring regularly from New York to Miami on the Aprilia Atlantic 500 with little to no drama at all after working through the teething pains of taking a seldom used 14 year old scooter and putting it back in service after sitting all that time as someone else's garage ornament.
CVT drive does not automatically mean unreliable. I ran production lines on CVT drives 2 and 3 shifts a day 6 days a week with very few belt failures. My 1952 FMC farm tractor is CVT drive and is extremely reliable pulling ground engaging attachments such as coulters, moldboard plows, rakes sets, etc. Many riding lawn mowers today are still CVT driven too and holding up very well in commercial service with many wearing out the engines before the drive belts. Its true that many have machined steel drive faces however not all and the high grade aluminum alloys are holding up almost as good as the steel.
I can honestly say that I know more riders who have had a catastrophic near fatal motorcycle chain failure than those who've had scooter CVT drive belt failures.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 27, 2017 4:15:07 GMT -5
Your scooter must be one in a million Rocky. As you can see in the thread, belt changes and parts breakage among the Piaggio contenders was pretty rampant. I can't find it but I remember reading somewhere that even CDWise on the Sport City had a variator failure. Among the Japanese contenders, as expected, it was generally smooth sailing. The only ones I have heard of are on those where they removed the very reliable OEM variator and replaced it with a Polini. The aftermarket performance variators too often in order to shave weight thin out the ramp plates so that they shatter under the tourque of the high compression 244 engine messing up the splines on the crank. We have found that shifting to sliders and adding a 1 mm machined washer between the outer drive face and the center boss gives a better boost in performance without the failures associated with those less durable aftermarket parts. Trim the excess off the oil sump gasket while your at it to prevent it from being grabbed by the ribs on the back of the belt. Belt failures are most often from failure to clean the CVT filter then the aftermarket or old belts being used. See that all the time but most don't like to admit that they simply pushed things too far. Lets face it, 12,500 miles from a rubber V Belt squeezed in a variator drive is plenty yet too many push for 15,000 miles and don't make it. You keep them stock and they are Honda reliable but give you much higher levels of performance per cc. About 6 maybe more years ago I can't remember if it was Motorbike Magazine or not however they entered several of their senior editors in a Sport bike race but did not tell them until the last minute and shocked them by giving them Aprilia 460, Vespa 300, Suzuki 650, Yamaha and Honda Silverwing large scooters as their race bikes at the last moment when it was too late. One took a place (can't remember if it was the T-Max or Burgman 650) and the rest all finished in the top 20% of the field comprised of 650 and 750cc Sport Bikes. The riders in the bottom 80% really hated the scooters that were out in front of them at the end of the race. They were no longer making fun of the magazine editors riding Scooters in a Sport Bike Race. I really wish I hade saved the printed copy of that article as it was really precious.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 27, 2017 0:10:19 GMT -5
Preparation and maintenance are key elements.
The Piaggio 250 have a 12,500 mile belt along with a pretty good cooling and filtration system on the CVT however its sad how many do not clean the filter and end up killing a new belt on the first long ride. On a 2 week vacation I have put multiple 600 mile days in totalling well over 4,000 miles traveled without incident however that was preceded by an early belt/roller change along with oil/gear lube change, new engine air and CVT filters and checking/cleaning the CVT filter every 2,000 miles (more often on dusty roads). Many times the entire 600 mile day would be at 80 mph Interstate speeds so I know that a well maintained stock Piaggio 250 is fully capable of standing up to a 3,000 mile ride with very little maintenance during the event if everything was brought up to date before leaving the starting gate. You will only go through 1/3 of the tire life, 1/2 the distance between oil changes and 1/4 the distance between belt changes on engines with a 100,000 + mile life expectancy on these bikes in 3,000 miles so a well maintained and prepped one should only leave the rider and his abilities being tested.
Personally I go with Engine Ice for coolant since its non-toxic and works out very well on our 115 degree roadways. Preparation to switch over is a simple flush with white vinegar. You see a very definite reduction in the time between when the cooling fan comes on and it cycles off making it so that engine temperatures stay more even.
I know some of the previous years contestants that were riding the Vespa 250's thrashing out where they went wrong together with them afterwards and for most it was experimental enhancements that they thought would give them an edge backfiring on them. Some for example switched to oversized sliders to get higher top end speeds without taking precautions against over riding the edge of the drive face and snagging the oil sump gasket resulting in zero mile days while they corrected the damage from the failed experiment which pulled the gasket from the top of the oil sump dumping all their oil and destroying the belt. While for others it was simply lack of preparation, switching to an aftermarket belt and/or failure to keep the CVT filter clean. Sometimes the big issue was in choosing the wrong riding pants/base layers causing so much discomfort (thick seams and elastic leg bands that cut circulation or pinch the sciatic nerve) that riding was almost impossible.
The Cannon Ball is not the best time to test out new mods that may backfire on you thats for sure and not the best place for a high mileage poorly maintained bike or new relatively low mileage rider.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 26, 2017 23:26:33 GMT -5
Any update?
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