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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 17, 2014 13:52:20 GMT -5
Whew. Thought I was going to embarrass myself making yet another stupid comment.
Alley - asked in another thread and would really appreciate your thoughts on good break-in procedure. The web is full of conflicting theories - probably from people who don't know much more than me. So, I'd appreciate a real expert's viewpoint before i go and mess the new setup up.
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 17, 2014 12:17:56 GMT -5
Wanted to wait and check to make sure (already have a 1/4 inch spacer between the manifold and the head)... in MY case the carb would have to be raise about 1-1/8 inches for the pump casting to clear the crankcase mounting ear: MOUNTING EAR CAUSING INTERFERANCE:  PART OF CARB THAT IS HITTING:  And there is only about another 3/8 inch above the carb inlet before the cross brace would then interfere with the intake duct. Would have to raise the carb 4 inches or so to get it high enough that the duct could pass OVER the cross brace --- which is doable, but I'd lose my underseat storage (important to me). Anyway, I'm thinking maybe the slight (5 degree) cant to the carb from vertical will not cause fuel starvation, since the scooter must lean far more than that when cornering. At least that's the situation with the GY6 and carb I have. One thing I COULD do is trim off maybe 1/4 inch of the intake manifold so the carb would move FORWARD, maybe clearing the ear to the front, not clearing the ear above it. But that would leave a pretty narrow amount to secure the rubber piece connecting the manifold to the carb .... and if things are OK as they currently are I'd rather not do that. |
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Break in
by: rcq92130 - Sept 16, 2014 20:09:45 GMT -5
Post by rcq92130 on Sept 16, 2014 20:09:45 GMT -5
AlleyOop ---
I need to go thru a break-in again since there are new piston rings.
The first procedure was pretty painful, but I followed it to a "t". First 300 miles not more than 35 MPH, which meant riding in the bicycle lane (with my friend on his full dresser Harley, hazard lights blinking, following so I didn't get run over!).
Now I'm reading people say you should just "go for it" under a theory the rings expand against the cylinder wall because of compression pressure, so babying the engine actually hurts. I would LOVE that to be true ... but am afraid it's nonsense.
Just passed 50 miles with the BBK installed (almost all hills), changed the oil ....
But I would love to hear your recommendation for breaking in a GY6.
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 16, 2014 20:05:08 GMT -5
The cross brace is the shape of a "C" facing down (curves up in the middle), and the intake duct comes in from the rear. Right now the duct fits UNDER the "C".
I'd have to raise the carb maybe 6 inches to allow the duct to go over the TOP of the "C".
I don;t know if that makes any sense ...
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 16, 2014 19:48:37 GMT -5
Hi Shannen I don't know if you are having the same interferance problem with your 30mm carb -- but here is the issue I am dealing with. The bottom of the carb - on the right side (seen when sitting on the scooter; carb installed facing to the rear) has a round protrusion that is the pump. It's all a part of the carb casting - not a separate piece. With the carb installed this round "pump" part hits against the main engine mounting ear of the right side (a part of the crankcase casting). The solution if to have the carb sit slightly not upright so the pump protrusion is canted slightly to the left, and does not hit the mounting ear. I thought of grinding the ear down a bnit - or the pump protrusion - but it would have meant taking too much metal away. Anyway, I'm hoping the slight off-vertical install will not cause problems. So far it seems OK.  |
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 16, 2014 19:30:05 GMT -5
Good catch, Moat. Today went to my local muffler shop to have the new exhaust pipe installed --- and brought with me a support brace for the intake duct that needed to be welded on. That's all done; the assembly is painted with engine enamel, and looks OK:   The exhaust manifold (pipe ended up being a lot of work since (I think) it was designed for a dual-rear-shock setup and the existing bends caused it to flare way away from the engine - missing the muffler by going about 1-1/2 inches in the direction away from the engine. And, the muffler guy did not have dies small enough to re-bend the 1 inch new pipe, so they had to cut a series of slots in the new pipe, heat it up, gently bend it (opening up the slots), then welding the slots closed again (LOTS of stitching with the welder. Finally got it all welded together to the stock muffler (which is bored out) and seems OK.  You can see the remnants of the slots/welds one the far right side of the exhaust pipe. As soon as some more main jets arrive I can then get to trying to get the fuel/air mixture correct. Thanks for the help ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 15, 2014 18:39:57 GMT -5
EUREKA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NEW COIL CAME TODAY AND IT ***ALMOST*** RESOLVED THE PROBLEMS!!!!!!!!MOAT - YOU WERE THE ONE WHO FIRST CAME UP WITH THE 'ELECTRICAL' THEORY! YOU WERE RIGHT, MAN!Took a 15 mile ride this afternoon and, at first, the only problem I noticed was popping on deceleration. Good pick up and no hesitation.
On the last leg I had 2 steep hills to climb and on the first had to throttle back because the engine was bogged down --- think I noticed a little of that on the second hill also (but was already at a lower throttle and the scoot finished the hill w/o really bogging. So .... still some tuning to do ... lean, I guess .... 
Have a larger exhaust manifold to have welded on in place of the stock straw-sized pipe. Maybe tomorrow. Will then see what can be done about tuning.
THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO HUNG THERE AND HELPED SO MUCH, ESPECIALLY YOU KNOW WHO! Really, really appreciate the help!
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 22:38:54 GMT -5
I did not even look for the oring.
Yes, cleaner came out the small holes a bit. There was a lot of backspray, but it DID come out the holes.
One time a few weeks ago the needle screw on the 24 actually FELL OUT while I was riding. Got home and was lucky - both the screw and the spring had fallen onto the crankcase and were lodged under the starter motor.
Maybe the o-ring either fell out also (and I didn't know to look for it), or got sucked in, or damaged, or whatever.
Will try to see tomorrow.
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 21:57:53 GMT -5
Did that before. You sent me your instructions and one night i took the carb apart, jets out, got cleaner and sprayed and sprayed. So, if there is something in a passageway it's I guess pretty stuck --- maybe ultrasound would free it; I don't know.
Will tape up the Uni.
Just so i learn - why is it not recommended to get a larger main to achieve the correct mixture? Will it blow up the engine with that much air/fuel?
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 21:28:21 GMT -5
Alley --
No need to be "polite" -- I know I know just about zero and realize by now how much of an expert you are. This for me si 100% about being grateful for your big time help.
I'd put the 24mm back in ... but i think something is wrong with it. If you remember, we did EVERYTHING trying to get it working - up jet, down jet on and on an don, to the point where I could tell how really frustrated you had become and how ready i was to push the thing off a cliff. My WAG is the carb is still dirty or something and would need a real ultrasonic cleaning or something. That might explain why it sudden;y went from OK to not ok, and why the idle speed didn't change with needle screw adjustments, and why i just couldn't get it even half way working.
And this carb seem so much closer to being Ok --- certainly seems to spin the motor faster up RPM --- and so I'm hoping to figure what is still bad and fix it.
Either that or I'll have to buy another new 24mm ..........
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 21:12:32 GMT -5
I don't know what psi my elec pump is, but it works fine. Not a solution to whatever is going on im my case, and I think I'll use it on my Goldwing instead of the scooter..
Anyway, don't think the vacuum fuel pump - though I think it is a silly, klugy idea - is my problem at all. My scoot rapidly climbs to 6,000 rpm, then falters. I don't think the time to climb - a secnd or so - is enough for any serious amount of fuel to be drained from the bowl. So, presuming THAT'S the case, the vacuum pump working or not working isn't a factor.
As for me - I expect to eventually, with the help of the geniuses here, get my scoot dialed in. At that point I do not anticipate messing around with it again. Oh, maybe a idle mixture adjustment or two - but that's not a problem with the screw easily accessible. I do NOT expect to be having to take the carb on and off.
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 21:06:56 GMT -5
At partial throttle (1/2 way or something ... maybe a little more) there is a ***slight*** hitch at about 5,500 or 6,000, but it's just a slight lessening of the rapid climb in the RPMs, for maybe 1/3 second, then it resumes it's quick climb up as far as I will let the RPMs go &k or 8K). Seems not perfect but almost perfect at 1/2+ throttle.
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 20:27:02 GMT -5
Hi Alley
I am as far from knowledgeable in this as you can get, but i ***THINK*** the low speed is working really well. Idles very well (1800). Half throttle and the thing speeds up RPMs on the stand) smoothly. In fact, if I don't turn the throttle too much I suspect the thing would RPM up to 8 or 10k ---s seems to have a lot of legs.
It's only when i open the throttle up MORE that it bogs down.
I'm ASSUMING this is an air/fuel issue, and not the coil dropping out like some suggested 2 days ago ....
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 20:23:25 GMT -5
You might want to take one last look at fitting this.
You have a GY6 - and I'm guessing the exact same crankcase casting. It's the engine mount tabs (and the mounting bolt) that cause interference.
What I found was if I REMOVED the rubber boot that connects the carb to the (metal) intake manifold I could just barely get the carb in --- with the metal output of the carb more or less touching the metal of the input manifold.
I then looked at the rubber boot (sleeve) that came with the intake manifold and saw it had a molded ridge inside intended to separate the manifold and carb. The width of the ridge was "just" wide enough the carb would not fit.
So, I got a piece of radiator hose the right diameter (no ridge inside, of course), and am using it. This way I can get the carb and manifold essentially together, and the carb more or less fits. The pumper casting still hits the right side mounting ear cast into the crankcase, but rotating the carb about 5 degrees from upright fixes this. I think this small rotation will no lead to a problem with the fuel height in the carb bowl.
Anyway - something to check.
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 14, 2014 19:46:17 GMT -5
The needle in this carb is not adjustable. Thought of putting a few washers in there tpo raise it up, but the washers I had were too big to fit inside the carb housing. Checked my main jet "collection" .... had a 120 in the carb, thought I had a 125 -- but I do not. Tried a 130, but the problem just gets worse - WOT is OK up to about 4,500 RPM and then it falters (compared to 5,000 RPM with the 120). Still, with the 130, does OK if I only use 3/4 throttle (no faltering all the way to 7,000 --- which I don't try to go over. And if I do WOT, let it falter at 4,500 - then decrease to 3/4 throttle the engine climbs rapidly to 7K. DO I NEED SOMETHING BIGGER THAN 130 ? |
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