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Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 7, 2016 0:24:38 GMT -5
Well, boyz n' gurlz...
Have we all been watching "Harley and the Davidsons"?
It's really dramatic, and entertaining. Lots of old (very old) school bike action. Who said "mopeds" can't be macho...? There are a lot of early 1900's bikes in action. I assume they must mostly be replicas, but what a major accomplishment to make that many running bikes which look so authentic. Only the helmets look out of character. They appear to be modern half-shell "skid-lids" covered with vintage leather. They do look like something from the 1940's, but I'm sure pre-WWI riders had no helmets at all, or at best, leather aviation skull-caps.
But they work, and are acceptable for the protection of the actors, often riding pretty dangerously.
I'd like to think the original Indian people were not quite the evil horse's butts portrayed in the drama. Who knows, but I can't help but notice this portrayal of Harley Davidson as the totally innocent, Boy Scout-pure, hopelessly honest bunch of underdogs... savagely mistreated by the self-serving, amoral and totally evil crew at Indian has interesting timing.
This year, the new Indian firm unleashed their truly fabulous big twins, aimed squarely at the Harley big cruisers... Then, the new Indian Scout, aimed at the Harley Sportster rider. Then, Indian had the audacity to launch a flat-track bike...
So... Harley countered with their new "Milwaukee Eight" 8-valve upgrade to the big twin, AND a new flat-track racer...
With the original Indian marque being of no significance for decades, it seems it's back with a vengeance under the Victory banner.
Who could guess that bitter rivalry between Harley Davidson and Indian would re-emerge after most of a century of time?
Whatever the case, the timing of this docu-drama, "Harley and the Davidsons" is most interesting. I'll bet Harley Davidson is involved it its production up to their eyeballs...
Both marques are now offering the sweetest big V-twins around, right now! So buyers of either make will probably be pretty pleased with their purchases.
I'd encourage anyone interested in the Harley Davidson history to watch this series. It's worthwhile just for the authentic bikes, apparel and atmosphere.
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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Post by tortoise on Sept 7, 2016 8:55:11 GMT -5
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Post by wheelbender6 on Sept 7, 2016 8:59:44 GMT -5
I have not seen it, but plan to tune in.
-I wasn't really interested in vintage motorcycles until installed an engine kit on a beach cruiser bicycle. It wasn't long before I wanted to build a vintage Harley replica, circa 1907, as many of them were pedal start (with bicycle pedals and chain).
-I never built that Harley replica, but I built a few different versions of springer seats and such for my motorbike.
-I know that watching Harley and the Davidsons will make me want to start on that 1907 replica.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 7, 2016 10:45:42 GMT -5
I have not seen it, but plan to tune in. -I wasn't really interested in vintage motorcycles until installed an engine kit on a beach cruiser bicycle. It wasn't long before I wanted to build a vintage Harley replica, circa 1907, as many of them were pedal start (with bicycle pedals and chain). -I never built that Harley replica, but I built a few different versions of springer seats and such for my motorbike. -I know that watching Harley and the Davidsons will make me want to start on that 1907 replica.
Absolutely! Powered bicycle conversions are a modern-day recreation of the early bikes.  Most early bikes like the first Harleys used a wide, flat leather belt connecting a small pulley on the crankshaft to a huge pulley (sheave) on the rear wheel. A big lever tightened an idler-pulley against the belt to turn the engine over for pedal-starting, and to engage the running engine to ride. The very same setup can still be found today, but using a V-belt, on the original and repro Whizzer motorbikes. As for the new motorized bicycles, I saw on You-Tube a truly marvelous innovation some fellow cobbled up... He took a 10-speed mountain-bike with a 2-sprocket derailer on the pedal crank, and connected the engine (centrifugal clutch) via bicycle-chain to the inside pedal-sprocket, or "chainwheel"... Now, he had a fully-functional 5-speed BICYCLE to pedal if desired, AND a fully-functional 5-speed MOTORBIKE with shift-on-the-fly clutchless shifting. Whew! Did that thing GO! Three horsepower little 2-stroke weed-whacker motor would hit near 50-mph in 5th gear, with plenty of low-end climbing power in the lower gears... Modern bicycle chains seem to easily handle the little engine's power, and by powering the PEDAL CRANK you get to keep the rear derailer gears!
Interestingly, non-suspension older mountain-bike frames resemble the early motorcycles. Put a repro bicycle springer-fork on one and you have a pretty credible replica vintage cycle!Pretty sweet!  Have a bone, and do build a turn-of-the-century motorbike if you can! Ride safe!Leo in Texas |
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Post by wheelbender6 on Sept 8, 2016 18:53:01 GMT -5
Yes. The simplicity of that belt clutch and many other parts on the pre-1912 motorcycles makes them very appealing to me. Exhausts and manifolds were basically plumbing fixtures. The sheave that holds the belt on the back wheel was usually a rim from a smaller diameter wheel. There were no parts on those early motorcycles that were unfamiliar to the average farmer.
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Post by flyangler on Sept 8, 2016 19:33:36 GMT -5
I've seen the first two parts and will finish it tomorrow, I'm enjoying it from an historical viewpoint, plus I live just 15 miles from the original Indian factory in Springfield Ma. .
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Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 8, 2016 22:11:21 GMT -5
Well, I watched all 3 parts...
Well-done, but considering the film-makers had SIX HOURS to tell the story... I think the series went overboard on family and corporate drama, and shorted viewers on some important Harley-Davidson history. The baby pig was a "biggie" whose story sort of got lost after "Shrimp" Burns presented the little porker to the Harley boyz... (I'm not all that sure Burns even brought the piggy on the scene, but it makes a good story...). I've always heard the HD team adopted the little guy on their own... But, because of the popular mascot, the HD racing team picked up the nickname "Hogs". In time, the term "Hog" became synonymous with the bikes themselves.
Harley-Davidson bikes have been called "Hogs" ever since.Then, the story morphs from the early 1900's primitive V-Twins right to the "Knucklehead" for the finale. Not a mention of the flathead 45 and 74 twins. The Knucklehead is pretty much an OHV upgrade to the 74 flathead.
The OHV Hogs really were the "death knell" to the big Indian flatheads. Sort of "poetic justice" if the Indian company was really as nasty as the series portrays. With all the time the producers had to tell the story, I had hoped the series would have continued through the 1970's, featuring the panhead, shovelhead and evo motors, AND the future near-bankrupt corporate adventures of HD. A perfect ending would have been when, after the DISMAL early 1970's AMF products... the sacrificial employee buy-back of Harley Davidson took place, and the magnificent resurrection of the iconic company became history. Seems that the story of Willie G. Davidson's masterful creation of "factory choppers" should have been in the story somewhere too. His contributions to the design of modern Harley semi-custom rides was a BIG factor in HD still being alive today.
The advent of the knucklehead, while being a major milestone in HD history, was hardly the end of the story. It was truly the beginning of the modern (WWII and post-war era) Harley-Davidson. A genuine 100-mph big twin ensured HD would dominate the flat track, and the police market for a long, long time. Now, will the new "Milwaukee-Eight" cruiser and the new HD flat-track bike dominate their modern Indian counterparts? Enquiring minds want to know... LOL.  
The saga continues, the road goes on 4-ever... and the party never ends.I did enjoy the show though. Learned a few things about Harley-Davidson I didn't know, too. Ride safe!Leo (Redneck film critic, who retired the Hog and is now ridin' the Mouse...) in Texas ______________________________________________________________
PS: Weren't some of those outlaw racing bikes WAY cool? Oh, YEAH!
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Putting miles on those Diablos
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Post by thecollector on Sept 9, 2016 17:14:23 GMT -5
I watched all three parts and liked it. It did not seem too big a ground-breaking a movie but it was informative in a one-sided sort of view. The usual throw it all together, sex it up a bit, and add some sentimentality TV movie. For me, who knew very little about these men, it was interesting.
I found some of the corporate intrigue interesting because of my background, but I agree there was probably too much of it. I would have liked a bit more time spent on explaining some of the mechanical ideas in their designs, It seemed like the show was made by people who retold what they heard about motorcycles.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 10, 2016 15:27:37 GMT -5
I watched all three parts and liked it. It did not seem too big a ground-breaking a movie but it was informative in a one-sided sort of view. The usual throw it all together, sex it up a bit, and add some sentimentality TV movie. For me, who knew very little about these men, it was interesting. I found some of the corporate intrigue interesting because of my background, but I agree there was probably too much of it. I would have liked a bit more time spent on explaining some of the mechanical ideas in their designs, It seemed like the show was made by people who retold what they heard about motorcycles.
I definitely agree with your observations. The coverage of Bill Harley's designs and interaction with the Davidsons creating their FIRST bikes was GREAT. But later designs were given little attention except for drama value. The view was DEFINITELY one-sided. I do hope Indian was not quite THAT nasty, but it's surely possible. And, the Ford attempt to bankrupt HD to do a primitive version of a "hostile takeover" is probably fairly accurate. Some of THE most intriguing facets of the history of HD however, came long AFTER the docu-drama's ending with the success of the "knuckle-head". I've been a die-hard fan of Harley-Davidson since the early fifties (building and riding choppers and baggers) and the one thing the show did portray well is Harley's long-term affinity for the "outlaw" rider and racer. That factor alone has kept HD in the forefront of the independent rider, separating it from the European and Asian brands. It's a brand-loyalty that is difficult to explain unless you've lived it.
I lived it for many decades, and now, in my old age, it's scooters for me...Enjoy being part of a great site, and... Ride safe!Leo in Texas |
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