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Post by vintagepgogod123 on Mar 18, 2016 14:04:10 GMT -5
How can I use gearing to get more top speed on hills currently pulling at 20mph uphill.
I am mainly interested in overhauling my rollers and possibly a new clutch.
My scoots pretty much mint for being 28 years old years old but a performance clutch in any vehicle/scoot will give you better performance.
My exhaust is about to be upgraded to tecnigas stage one stock muffler seeing my old muffler looks like a bumb took a fat load on it. The body work excluding the wheel well will be bypassed and I'll just pull my front panel and strengthen the edging of the paneling.
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Post by rockynv on Mar 18, 2016 22:44:11 GMT -5
Usually a performance clutch will let the engine wind up before engaging to give you more of a neck snap when engaging but will not enhance hill climbing very much unless you put in a stronger contra spring. Putting in sliders and keeping the stock clutch works better for me and is much cheaper too. I find a jerky clutch irritating after a while in city traffic. At almost 30,000 miles the clutch on my Piaggio powered Sport City is nowhere near requiring replacement.
Get a good selection of carb jets ready for when you replace the muffler so you do not end up running lean from the change in back pressure and burn a hole in your piston top.
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Post by vintagepgogod123 on Mar 28, 2016 13:28:35 GMT -5
currently it runs rich on the piolet circuit may change when it gets hotter out won't know until weather temp goes up but I have to kill the fuel flow to shut her down at 41 degrees. I found if it still runs rich in the hotter 70s perfect for expansion upgrade but it's a cloned carby. She runs lovely I can red line not sure if this is correct but my GPS indicates 31.83 mph while dash indicates about 50 redlining.
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Post by rockynv on Mar 29, 2016 11:53:00 GMT -5
currently it runs rich on the piolet circuit may change when it gets hotter out won't know until weather temp goes up but I have to kill the fuel flow to shut her down at 41 degrees. I found if it still runs rich in the hotter 70s perfect for expansion upgrade but it's a cloned carby. She runs lovely I can red line not sure if this is correct but my GPS indicates 31.83 mph while dash indicates about 50 redlining. Hitting the red line means you're about to destroy the engine. You usually do not redline a near to 30 year old vintage ride. You really do not want a connecting rod coming loose and poking through the side of the block. |
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Post by vintagepgogod123 on Mar 29, 2016 20:41:45 GMT -5
currently it runs rich on the piolet circuit may change when it gets hotter out won't know until weather temp goes up but I have to kill the fuel flow to shut her down at 41 degrees. I found if it still runs rich in the hotter 70s perfect for expansion upgrade but it's a cloned carby. She runs lovely I can red line not sure if this is correct but my GPS indicates 31.83 mph while dash indicates about 50 redlining. Hitting the red line means you're about to destroy the engine. You usually do not redline a near to 30 year old vintage ride. You really do not want a connecting rod coming loose and poking through the side of the block. Im aware now, so why am i only doing 31.63 mph ? Isnt 35 max a scoot can go? She already ticks upon hitting the throttle but at idle she makes no noises somone said its because i dont have an exhaust gasket. Wouldnt heavier rollers on it bring up my final speed i dont want to dog her though. If she cant do it legally by standard parts upgrade then maybe its time for a 4t swap and save my old case for super forged overhauling. Can a bad reed tick as well? |
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Post by rockynv on Mar 29, 2016 22:43:05 GMT -5
Depends on overall condition of the motor. An older 2 stroke needs some TLC to make it right. First is to ensure that the reed valves are clean without any pitting and that the carb is pristinely clean. Was there an oil injection system on that model or are you mixing oil with gas in the fuel tank at every fill up?
20 mph uphill may be a pretty good number for that bike if its an accurate reading. A 50cc can bog down to even less depending on the hill and the weight of the rider..
In general exhaust ports on the cylinder carbon up and need to be cleaned out as part of normal maintenance especially on the older 2 strokes or they get restricted causing overheating and poor performance. That is why many insist on only using the better 2 stroke oils to prevent carbon build up and extend the time between exhaust port cleanings.
Also verify that you have the correct size tires on the bike. 5 mph deviation at 30 is about normal not 20 mph and hitting engine redline indicated by the tachometer at a true 31 mph is not really right on a 50cc 2 stroke scooter and would be more likely at a true 45 or 50 mph albeit while going down hill. So really look closely at tire sizes, stuck sheaves not opening and closing fully, worn rollers, streatched belt, etc.
As for max that a 50cc 2 stroke can do my 1972 Motobecane Mobyette would do 40 tops and that was an old school pedal style moped. The 50cc Yamaha scooter of the day would do 45 mph top without redlining. A more modern Aprilia Ditec 50 2 stroke can top out at around 65 mph.
Yes worn or cracked reed valves can tick.
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Post by vintagepgogod123 on Mar 30, 2016 12:15:22 GMT -5
Depends on overall condition of the motor. An older 2 stroke needs some TLC to make it right. First is to ensure that the reed valves are clean without any pitting and that the carb is pristinely clean. Was there an oil injection system on that model or are you mixing oil with gas in the fuel tank at every fill up? 20 mph uphill may be a pretty good number for that bike if its an accurate reading. A 50cc can bog down to even less depending on the hill and the weight of the rider.. In general exhaust ports on the cylinder carbon up and need to be cleaned out as part of normal maintenance especially on the older 2 strokes or they get restricted causing overheating and poor performance. That is why many insist on only using the better 2 stroke oils to prevent carbon build up and extend the time between exhaust port cleanings. Also verify that you have the correct size tires on the bike. 5 mph deviation at 30 is about normal not 20 mph and hitting engine redline indicated by the tachometer at a true 31 mph is not really right on a 50cc 2 stroke scooter and would be more likely at a true 45 or 50 mph albeit while going down hill. So really look closely at tire sizes, stuck sheaves not opening and closing fully, worn rollers, streatched belt, etc. As for max that a 50cc 2 stroke can do my 1972 Motobecane Mobyette would do 40 tops and that was an old school pedal style moped. The 50cc Yamaha scooter of the day would do 45 mph top without redlining. A more modern Aprilia Ditec 50 2 stroke can top out at around 65 mph. Yes worn or cracked reed valves can tick. Retake, my actual up hill speed at kph is 14-15 mph at 20kph. More information: my carb is new with a full set up of new clear type lines to oil injection as well for fuel lines. It needs a new vaccum cock but is running currently as gravity style on a briggs fuel tap turned on just a pinch off the "o" mark. I have yet to inspect my reed valves is just about the only thing i did not do yet is it possiable for a bad reed to mimick or sound like is coming from the top end? When throttle is cracked open thats when tap occurs at idle shes quiet. The overall health before i rebuilt the top end custom with retrofitting a upgraded piston from dish to dome was flawless no crank play, good fitting needle bearing, etc. Whole top end except jug and cranks was replaced. There is only 1 used jug left on the market after that i will have to hirr a machinest to update mt case to take a new cylinder unless a nq50 fits up well. The belt is stretched from previous carb being bad for sure and possiably rollers are waiting on a trash can other then that i think my main issues rely in old assed reed valves. I would like to change my reed pedals to race carbon fiber as carbon reeds when they break they burn up upon getting sucked into the engine vs steel and plastic which kill your whole engine. What ever that tick is its not major or else she would not have as much kick before i started truely fixing her. Got her at 830 miles on speedo now has 890 miles i put 20 miles before the 830 and im second owner she was garage kept sleep for 18 years by orginal owner of brewington scooters back in early 90s. All damage on her is either from me fixing it as far as the plastics go and my kids playing around on it parked. WHAT EVER IS TICKING IS NOTHING TO DO WITH RED LINING OR THE CRANK/TOP end. Also i need to change to smell good oil preformance i did my rebuild on shitty valvoline 2 cycle multi purpose oil. In the process of phasing it out i want her poot to smell like chocolate or strawberry lol Heres an example of how i am sure my reeds are bad my scooter sounds like this ticking. |
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Post by vintagepgogod123 on Apr 2, 2016 23:21:05 GMT -5
Depends on overall condition of the motor. An older 2 stroke needs some TLC to make it right. First is to ensure that the reed valves are clean without any pitting and that the carb is pristinely clean. Was there an oil injection system on that model or are you mixing oil with gas in the fuel tank at every fill up? 20 mph uphill may be a pretty good number for that bike if its an accurate reading. A 50cc can bog down to even less depending on the hill and the weight of the rider.. In general exhaust ports on the cylinder carbon up and need to be cleaned out as part of normal maintenance especially on the older 2 strokes or they get restricted causing overheating and poor performance. That is why many insist on only using the better 2 stroke oils to prevent carbon build up and extend the time between exhaust port cleanings. Also verify that you have the correct size tires on the bike. 5 mph deviation at 30 is about normal not 20 mph and hitting engine redline indicated by the tachometer at a true 31 mph is not really right on a 50cc 2 stroke scooter and would be more likely at a true 45 or 50 mph albeit while going down hill. So really look closely at tire sizes, stuck sheaves not opening and closing fully, worn rollers, streatched belt, etc. As for max that a 50cc 2 stroke can do my 1972 Motobecane Mobyette would do 40 tops and that was an old school pedal style moped. The 50cc Yamaha scooter of the day would do 45 mph top without redlining. A more modern Aprilia Ditec 50 2 stroke can top out at around 65 mph. Yes worn or cracked reed valves can tick. What are my reed options? Afo5e non metal or plastic stock plz. |
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Post by rockynv on Apr 3, 2016 7:13:14 GMT -5
I have not been deeply involved with two strokes for some years so I am behind on the new plastic reed valves however it is surprising that with only 890 miles there would be so many issues. The bike should just be broken in and should have only required a good cleaning of the fuel system and some polishing of the reed and plate.
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Post by vintagepgogod123 on Apr 3, 2016 17:31:29 GMT -5
I have not been deeply involved with two strokes for some years so I am behind on the new plastic reed valves however it is surprising that with only 890 miles there would be so many issues. The bike should just be broken in and should have only required a good cleaning of the fuel system and some polishing of the reed and plate. bike was built in 87 but sat undriven in a garage for 18 of its undriven life if you spend all that time from valves sitting of corse their bad. I can check them but i can guarentee  % that there f'd off from their first high speed drive in 28 years as they probably only been changed 1 time if the reeds are not good then my timing is off why i say reed is because of tick when fully warmed up and splooge at low idle cold which means it has to be partially open on one of the sides. Its got a new upgraded piston with rings, oil lines, gas lines,battery etc. I fixed it my self meaning not even PGO them selves remember crap about this scooter anymore. Last is reeds, Cvt gearing, and rear brake pads. "I tell ya everyone calls me a foo for it but i died for my scooter, i will go ham on anyone who f's with it. "Ever seen a mother hawk f somone up over her babies? Ya well thats me..." |
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Post by rockynv on Apr 3, 2016 22:43:42 GMT -5
Be mindful that its just a thing. Don't really need to remember much specific to it since its a fairly simple two stroke. If its been sitting indoors unused for so long and has no appreciable wear I don't really understand replacing the piston and such since only the fuel lines and high tension wires really needed attention along with a carb bowl gasket with a float valve seat. Mostly should have just needed cleaning up and replacing of the rubber/leather parts.
Now if you were talking 1950's 35 to 50 hp automatic compression release two stroke outboard boat motors that is a whole nother matter. Dealing with the floating trigger coils, daisy read plates and automatic compression release mechanisms can be very challenging especially when they have been sitting unused for over 40 years after being exposed to salt water. Getting those twins with their big iron wedge pistons running can be frustrating but satisfying. A big Twin Evenrude or Johnson from the 50's has a certain music to it when its running right.
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Post by vintagepgogod123 on Apr 4, 2016 12:46:35 GMT -5
Be mindful that its just a thing. Don't really need to remember much specific to it since its a fairly simple two stroke. If its been sitting indoors unused for so long and has no appreciable wear I don't really understand replacing the piston and such since only the fuel lines and high tension wires really needed attention along with a carb bowl gasket with a float valve seat. Mostly should have just needed cleaning up and replacing of the rubber/leather parts. Now if you were talking 1950's 35 to 50 hp automatic compression release two stroke outboard boat motors that is a whole nother matter. Dealing with the floating trigger coils, daisy read plates and automatic compression release mechanisms can be very challenging especially when they have been sitting unused for over 40 years after being exposed to salt water. Getting those twins with their big iron wedge pistons running can be frustrating but satisfying. A big Twin Evenrude or Johnson from the 50's has a certain music to it when its running right. Satifaction is forever but the orginal piston was chipped, but after my findings it is probably "me" who f'd it over after rebuild. Now that i know as much as i do now I am thinking I screwed up my timing at the pickup on the cvt side before the rebuild. Ticking and dieseling after hot sounds like i should be pulling my cover and move the pickup back to the center. I cant remember but i think it should be adjusted to the rear tire side undrilled but i cant remember if i drilled out both sides in that case i can take two fingers and pinch it til it feels even on both sides which will center it back. I dont trust timing the pickup with the engine on, sounds like there is a chance that it can hit the magnetic point leading to snapping the pickup at the bump. "Im knee deep in my scooter sloshing the fuel around like we been down since 87." Piston is far from stock but is stock on newer models peep game 1984 aero nb50m rated at 40mm x 39.3 (dished low compression piston) now changed to 40mm x 39.2 (Dome top high compression) The .1 is subtracted to clear the cylinder head change in characteristics in the past before tanked it only went 42kph now redlines at 50kph no butting or lag. 50kph last calculated at 31.63 mph gps on app on no cvt upgrade meaning my previous speed was less then probably 25mph The dome increases top speed by a short circuit effect in combustion. The heat is evenly distributed between the pipes and cylinder excluding the tick factor caused by funky timing when fully at temp. Making it preform has not been an issue i just want her ready for a rev limit delete and have it dyno tested to see its stress level @ red line. If limiter is deleted im speculating 40-45mph on slight heavier rollers which will require me to own two cvts Pulley systems stock rollers are currently well for pulling me and my giant bag of tools together we top at 210lbs max. For speeding days just me and the bike thats only 154-156 lbs second cvt will contain lighter clutch with heavier rollers which pushes the ability to get up a hill lower round 20kph to 15kph speculation but on flat land pushes you further away from redline by rpm meaning the 10mm crank wrist pin will have to be tested to match the max rpm that can be handled. (The enemy can talk but as of now this scooter is so old that it got lost in its time PGO Star been out since 87-  if i am correct the problem with the 87 model is when you first build by pgo they kind of cloned honda (jug match is a  Nb50 which means its cloned or based off.) Was not until 1990 that jug style leaned more into yamaha jog style the 83 model of the cv50 riva/buluga matched as well to a tee but some models applied the reeds in the jugs them selves vs in the case siding. #snaps finger# |
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Post by rockynv on Apr 4, 2016 23:04:44 GMT -5
I can appreciate your passion for the endeavor however where I live the only 50cc that would safely deal with the area traffic in its stock configuration was the Aprilia/Derby DiTech. Not an antique yet but a very nice foundation being capable of 50+ mph from the factory. Capable of 65 mph with some minor tuning, After being on a + mph 250 I would be hard pressed to step back to a 50 but if I did it would probably be one of the Aprilia DiTech bike. The Aprilia RS50 is a great example of what a well sorted 50 can do in a small sport bike: |
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% that there f'd off from their first high speed drive in 28 years as they probably only been changed 1 time if the reeds are not good then my timing is off why i say reed is because of tick when fully warmed up and splooge at low idle cold which means it has to be partially open on one of the sides.
if i am correct the problem with the 87 model is when you first build by pgo they kind of cloned honda (jug match is a 
Nb50 which means its cloned or based off.)