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Post by scooterglutton on Jan 28, 2016 18:03:41 GMT -5
Ok, on my recently purchased 2008 Xingyue xy260t-4, just under 10,000 miles. Just noticed what sounds like a bearing or gear howling from the rear transmission. I know there are probably 3 sets of bearings, input driveshaft, countershaft and final driveshaft. My questions are, is it normal for these bearings to fail? Usually these bearings would outlast the scooter, but this is my 1st chinese model. Also, could I be over-reacting to a lesser problem, say, the clutch bearing or are these gearboxes just noisy? I am scared to tear it down because it's my only source of transportation at the moment, I don't have a lot of tools and I would want to have the parts on hand but no one seems to list these bearings by application (maybe Napa/Advanced would have them. Oh I don't know...this is very frustrating. Probably should have thought about all this before buying this thing with no scooter experience (except a 50cc Roketa that NEVER broke). Does anyone have a picture guide for tearing these things down? I know, lots of questions...I am just freaking out I guess :/
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Post by kevinharrell on Jan 28, 2016 18:17:02 GMT -5
Fix it now before doing more riding! I ignored a howling bearing thinking it was a howling belt, and, the failed bearing tore up the crankcase. See the vendors banners at the top of the page, one of them is sure to have the right bearings.
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Post by scooterglutton on Jan 28, 2016 18:36:49 GMT -5
Thanks, I'm gonna have to ride for a few days at least. I don't want to but I have to get to work, and can't get a ride. This sucks SO bad. I am pretty sure it is those bearings. I was just hoping to hear maybe something easier and quicker. Oh well! This is my life ! I did check the gear oil and it appears to not be contaminated YET with metal. I'll keep in under 35 mph and check the fluid each way.
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Post by scooterglutton on Jan 28, 2016 18:39:31 GMT -5
Actually I just thought of this, there's probably no way I'd see metal in the gear oil from bearings. They are separated from the gear oil by an oil seal, wouldn't they be? Scooters are new to me.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jan 28, 2016 21:24:00 GMT -5
no, not all bearings in the final drive are sealed. there was only one sealed bearing in my drive and it was the outside wheel axle bearing.
you can replace the clutch as an entire assembly to eliminate it.
the final drive on these bikes are relatively simple, 3 sets of gears, 3 sets of bearings, a shim or 2, and the gasket. the only real area you need to pay attention is where, and what order the shims come off.
i recommend using a piece of cardboard to locate the bolts as you remove them from the cover, makes it a lot simpler to get them back to where they belong.
spacing is important, so don't try to use anything other that the gasket made for your bike, IOW don't make your own.
the gears themselves are pretty well idiot proof, you can't get them in backwards or in the wrong order.
buy 3 cans of WD-40 with the red tube nozzles and thoroughly flush the final drive before reassembly.
it's really a simple job once you get into it, it certainly isn't like a manual tranny.
but first, are you sure it's the final drive? like you said, it could be the clutch. maybe a piece of metal came loose behind the variator.
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Post by scooterglutton on Jan 29, 2016 13:42:15 GMT -5
I am pretty sure it's the final drive as it only howls when the rear wheel is turning. Of course there is also the clutch shaft bearing and 2 bearings on the intermediate gear, so I am thinking just get EVERYTHING, seals and all and do it all at once. I found a supplier partsatv.com that has excellent diagrams and all the parts are listed (without part #'s on some), but EXPENSIVE.....unreasonably expensive. I calledpartsforscooters and they didn't know how to look up the parts without part #'s. Argh! Here's the diagrams and part lists I found:
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jan 29, 2016 16:42:45 GMT -5
i would remove the clutch, you might need to get a couple of screwdrivers under it to pry it off). then see if the final drives howls.
item number 3, what they call washers, needs to go back EXACTLY like they came off. so pay attention to this.
you will also need a blind hole bearing puller, to pull the countershaft bearings.
out of curiosity, what kind of final drive oil was you using?
your final drive is modeled after the yamaha 257. find a service manual from yamaha for this engine, it should be of great value to you. BTW, all the bearing numbers are listed except for the countershaft bearings.
start a dialog with scrappydog, they should be able to help you.
a yamaha service garage MIGHT help. my local honda shop refused to help me with my final drive.
keep us posted.
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Post by scooterglutton on Jan 30, 2016 13:08:22 GMT -5
Thanks again, good information! I believe the previous owner JUST changed the gear oil cuz it looks quite clean. (maybe he knew the problem and this is why he sold it) So I have no idea what weight it is, or if it was loaded with metal when he changed it. I tried calling him and guess what??? "No longer in service" ARGH!!!! Of course he didn't mention that he just changed it. I didn't really do my diligence checking it out. It was night time, very cold and I let the friend who gave me the ride to go look at it talk me into just getting it. "For $800, so what if you have to fix some ." I was like, ya! Sure, I can fix anything anyway.....of course I should have known better. My friend doesn't have to search for parts and PAY for them and have to rely on it EVERY DAY to get me back and forth to work etc. I got hosed and now I know it. The scooter has been treated ROUGH. It appears to have been completely disassembled at some point because many fasteners and clips are missing, it's been repainted, the solenoid has been rewired and replaced and is just bouncing around next to the battery. The tach only works about 10% of the time and it bounces around. Oh well, I will learn a lot working on this and a lesson in buying used Chinese scoots. I am very knowledgeable in auto repair and parts, most of my working life spent managing repair shops and parts stores, so not much scares me....but it makes me a little TOO bold...I tend to always tell myself, "I can do that". Which is true, but I don't WANT to anymore. I have found some EXCELLENT information from this site with Yamaha part #'s and diagrams: partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/yamahagenuineparts/showmodel.asp?make=yamahascBUT, this is all for a 2005 and newer YP400.....but everything LOOKS the same. I'm gonna try cross referencing some of the KNOWN part #s I found for the Linhai/VOG 260(170mm) and see if they cross to the part #'s on the Yamaha parts website. If they do, this would make it much easier to find higher quality parts for it (the engine/trans anyway). partsatv.com Has diagrams w/part #'s, all chinese parts though and his prices are astronomical. He appears to have a warehouse FULL of these parts in TX. But, I'd rather cross them and get cheaper, better bearing parts from NAPA/Advanced. Another thought I am having now is that this could be the gears themselves. I need to stop conjecturing and searching for parts I may not even need and just tear it down. But then I'm walking for however long it takes. I don't want to buy ALL the parts for the tranny, that would cost more than what I could buy another bike for, LOL! I can't sell it without fixing it for what I paid, I wouldn't try to push it on anyone else like this, I just don't do that. So, come what may, aside from a catastrophic failure....I'm gonna learn this thing and do whatever it takes.
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Post by scooterglutton on Jan 30, 2016 14:58:49 GMT -5
SO many bearings in this thing...GOLLY!
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jan 30, 2016 16:31:00 GMT -5
since you seem to have good mechanical aptitude, this shouldn't be much of a problem for you. since the final drive housing is aluminum, i just hope the bearing mounts aren't reamed out. if you find that to be the problem, then look around for a blown 257 and salvage the CVT case. speaking of aluminum, take it easy with the scrapers and sand paper (and the torque)
there are only 3 sets of bearings in the final drive, 2 for the clutch shaft, 2 for the countershaft, and 2 for the wheel axle. on my bike, all of these are open race except the wheel side of the wheel axle. the countershaft bearings were needle, the other 4 were ball.
these drives are vented, so make sure you don't pinch the vent hose on reassembly.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jan 30, 2016 17:09:38 GMT -5
man, i don't believe this. i was checking out some part numbers for ya, and i found out the clutch shaft used in your ride is the same one used in the cfmoto v3/v5. the cfmoto v3/v5 uses the 244cc, the same engine i have. it's simply unbelievable the final drive would be the same, but i got some numbers for ya. bearing 6304 crosses to honda # 91001-gf6-004 bearing 62/22 crosses to honda # 91005-ks4-003 countershaft bearings crosses to ta1416z.
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Post by scooterglutton on Jan 31, 2016 13:24:50 GMT -5
Awesome, thanks much for the help! Having Honda #s might help out a lot. I hope the gears and axles are OK too. We'll see! I am probably gonna have to buy a bicycle to ride back and forth to work for a few days while I tear this down, then wait for parts. I will have to ride a few more miles unfortunately until next payday, so I can get this handled. Thanks again and I'll keep this updated with what goes on.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jan 31, 2016 14:43:51 GMT -5
keep in mind that this isn't a for sure thing. the clutch shaft may be the same and the other parts totally different. but, if they are the same then the honda part numbers will be valid. here are the tooth counts for the gears for a check: clutch shaft 14 counter shaft large gear 37, small 14 wheel axle 35 BTW, these parts are for the honda elite, production years - . edited to add: about item 3, the shims. your parts list only mention 2 of them, one on each end of the countershaft. some drives, mine was one of them, has 3, two on one end and one on the other. also keep in mind that these shims might be "stuck" to the drive housing. pay particular attention to this area of the drive, because these shims has to go back like they came off.
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Post by scooterglutton on Feb 1, 2016 14:01:50 GMT -5
UPDATE: Tore it down with relative ease. Was VERY happy to see that the culprit was only the clutch-shaft bearing on the left side (in the cover). SO, got a SKF bearing from Napa and dropped it off just a iminute ago at a local shop to replace the bearing for me. I'd like to be replacing everything wearable in there, but it'll have to wait. Money is short and I can't be without wheels without completely messing up my life. The outer bearing in the clutch is starting to feel a little rough, but I'll be replacing the whole assembly within a month or so...I am quite relieved that I can at least take care of the terrible howl and potential BIG problem today, without interrupting my regular routine too much. I'll definitely update my progress with this scoot as I plan to keep her for a while. BTW, the part # for the bearing I needed doesn't match ANY of the diagrams I have got...my diagram says 6025c3, but the # on the bearing is 6205/p53. Strange huh? I thought all of these 257cc Yamaha clones would be the same....maybe not. Anyway thanks for all the advise, I am less intimidated now, knowing I didn't have to call China for parts!
Now I can worry about the tire I need, the leaky rear brake hose (not bad, YET), the rear brake pads, both master cylinders (sight glass is turning to mush, why do all the Chinese scooters do that? Cheap acrylic/plastic I guess), an airbox and hose (might make my own, custom intake. I can't seem to find one like it anywhere, they are different than all the other 260cc one's apparently) A new windscreen (mine's hard to see through with all the spider-cracks, once again, cheap plastic), a new intake elbow etc etc etc....this is SO much fun! (total sarcasm when I say that) But really, my life is so boring without something to fix all the time. Thankfully (knock on wood) the motor is clean and has no issues. My temp gauge never gets over the "C" on the left side, but it does move. I almost wish this thing were air-cooled like my old 50cc was...so simple and less to worry about. But I wanted something bigger and faster and worthy of longer trips so.....I ASKED FOR IT! I am a glutton for punishment, hence my name.
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Post by crawford on Feb 1, 2016 15:14:38 GMT -5
Air cooled is only good to a point if you get into a traffic slow down you will wish you had water cooled I been there LOL
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