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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 17:14:28 GMT -5
Scooter in question: TaoTao ATM50-A1 2013, GY6 139QMB 50cc engine. Scooter has about 10k miles on it. I've consistently changed the gear and engine oil, as well as kept up on maintenance, and replaced parts (indicated below).
I've replaced the stock fuel filter and carburetor, belt, Variator, spark plug, clutch, and already replaced fuel lines as well as the fuel pump valve petcock with a switch. Pretty standard modifications from what I've seen. I replaced all default parts with equivalent parts (there are no "enhanced" or "performance" parts) per matching specifications. I've also done valve adjustments to keep them within spec, and generally managed to achieved 35-40 MPH up hills until recently.
The problem: After a given RPM, indicated about 25-30 MPH on flat land, the engine will rev to maximum (gauged by sound) and all power to the drive is lost. I replaced the variater and clutch thinking the clutch might be the cause (and I might as well replaced worn parts). The rear wheel will also, regardless of the idle speed, continuously spin as though the clutch is permanently engaged. This occurred with the old and new clutch, and in spite of removing the housing to observe the clutch I could not visually determine the cause.
As I've reached the end of my rope and ability to search for an issue so close to the common fuel issues (like "bogging down", etc), I've had to make my first post here to ask for help. There are no scooter shops that service Chinese model scooters within 20 miles of me, unfortunately, so I'll be doing all servicing myself (as I have been).
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Post by tvnacman on Jan 16, 2016 17:48:03 GMT -5
have you inspected the variator? Checked that the rollers are round free of flat spots?
John
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Post by gy6er on Jan 16, 2016 17:56:09 GMT -5
For your rear wheel spinning,seems your inner (3) clutch springs are defective. I just installed a brand new gy6 clutch and did the same thing. You will need to take a 38 or 39 mm impact socket and remove huge nut.There is also a youtube video of a guy using hugh adjustable wrench to remove it,I've done that and it works like a charm. Be careful, make sure you can put both feet on the outside of the clutch as they are under spring load. Then you may have a backing plate or maby not. Parts for scooters or scrappy dog scooters will have the springs you need,then you also may need snap ring pliers if you have to remove a back plate. Other than that I find just a regular pic to remove the 3 springs is pretty ok. Beware, sometimes i have bought new springs and installed them only to have same result. You might get a set of 1500 springs and like a set of stock in case the 1st don't work. Don't know about your other issues. I will think the thread over. Make sure you can comfortably reach the clutch when working on. Sometimes you may get the nut off and yet the clutch will not come apart easily but it should. If not you will need to keep foot on it and tap around edges with rubber mallet until it breaks loose. Use pic or preferred method to re install and that should take care of that. Good luck, gettin scoot to truck!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 17:58:46 GMT -5
have you inspected the variator? Checked that the rollers are round free of flat spots? John I replaced the variator even though the old one was in working condition just to pre-empt that possibility. Again, the engine runs powerfully until some arbitrary RPM at which point all power to the rear drive is lost (but the engine then goes full boar). I don't think a variator could do that, but even so I did replace it and the rollers are in good working condition. There's no worn spots on the new variator (nor old one) or anything. The problem is like...the engine is running but nothing is engaging. So after a given speed or RPM (again, around 25-30 MPH) it's like the engine is running free and "goes in the red" audibly. Unfortunately there's no easy way for me to attach an RPM meter nor can I afford to do so at the moment, so I can't give exact values. |
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Post by gy6er on Jan 16, 2016 18:10:37 GMT -5
If it's a gear thing it should be front variator or rear clutch related(max reves low MPH) and not just lost power. Do you know what weight the rollers are cause they might be to light?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 18:14:34 GMT -5
For your rear wheel spinning,seems your inner (3) clutch springs are defective. I just installed a brand new gy6 clutch and did the same thing. You will need to take a 38 or 39 mm impact socket and remove huge nut.There is also a youtube video of a guy using hugh adjustable wrench to remove it,I've done that and it works like a charm. Be careful, make sure you can put both feet on the outside of the clutch as they are under spring load. Then you may have a backing plate or maby not. Parts for scooters or scrappy dog scooters will have the springs you need,then you also may need snap ring pliers if you have to remove a back plate. Other than that I find just a regular pic to remove the 3 springs is pretty ok. Beware, sometimes i have bought new springs and installed them only to have same result. You might get a set of 1500 springs and like a set of stock in case the 1st don't work. Don't know about your other issues. I will think the thread over. Make sure you can comfortably reach the clutch when working on. Sometimes you may get the nut off and yet the clutch will not come apart easily but it should. If not you will need to keep foot on it and tap around edges with rubber mallet until it breaks loose. Use pic or preferred method to re install and that should take care of that. Good luck, gettin scoot to truck! As noted in my first post, I've replaced the clutch wholesale. I already have an impact wrench and have replaced those parts. Unless you suppose the springs on the old AND new clutch are somehow defective, but visual inspection doesn't indicate this compared to images I've seen. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 18:16:21 GMT -5
If it's a gear thing it should be front variator or rear clutch related(max reves low MPH) and not just lost power The power loss happens exactly at a given MPH of 25-30 MPH. Otherwise it's got amazing power for a 50cc due to my tuning, as it always has. Again, to be clear, there is no "bogging down" or "power loss at maximum throttle" like other issues. This issue is that it is as if the drive shaft disengages entirely after a given MPH. Contrariwise, this only happens ridden, because without any weight on it the engine will (on stand) go to high speeds. |
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Post by gy6er on Jan 16, 2016 18:23:13 GMT -5
If it's a gear thing it should be front variator or rear clutch related(max reves low MPH) and not just lost power The power loss happens exactly at a given MPH of 25-30 MPH. Otherwise it's got amazing power for a 50cc due to my tuning, as it always has. Again, to be clear, there is no "bogging down" or "power loss at maximum throttle" like other issues. This issue is that it is as if the drive shaft disengages entirely after a given MPH. Contrariwise, this only happens ridden, because without any weight on it the engine will (on stand) go to high speeds. Thats a thinker,These machiens are fairly simple. Something should point to something. Aside of the good accel,do you think she may be winding down? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 18:34:50 GMT -5
I'm thinking it might be an engine issue, personally, but the thing is I've never touched an engine before. So if somebody has that experience or has experienced a broken piston or something that causes this weird effect, that might help. The rear wheel continuously spinning is why I originally replaced and kept checking the variator/clutch, but that didn't do it. I would try calling the scooter shop 20+ miles away but they probably wouldn't appreciate giving ideas to somebody who won't be purchasing anything from them due to distance.
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Post by tortoise on Jan 16, 2016 18:50:06 GMT -5
While on the center stand with the engine off, have you secured the clutch bell while turning the rear wheel to troubleshoot a rear gearbox issue?
Was the replacement belt a 669-18-30?
Any chance the variator plate was improperly installed? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 19:06:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure if you'd want pictures for me to "prove" I'm not being a derp, but in lieu of that I can honestly say the gearbox functions fine. The replacement belt is correct, and the variator plates (old and new) are perfectly fine. This problem began BEFORE I changed any parts, and that it continues after new parts have been installed correctly is baffling to me. To help ensure I didn't do something impossibly stupid like install the variator backward or something, I also watched videos of such installs and checked photos (as well as forums like this). That's why I'm at such a loss: By all accounts everything is visually intact, installed correctly, and should be working fine. So I'm obviously missing something, and I'm praying somebody has had this exact issue before to go "AH! Yeah, I know the problem".
If there is some way I could word a title or search so that it would bring up the issue as described, that would be immensely helpful too. So far all I get are issues relating to valve gap adjustments, belt replacements, and fuel injectors. None of which produce the problem I have.
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Post by JR on Jan 16, 2016 19:29:44 GMT -5
I'm not sure if you'd want pictures for me to "prove" I'm not being a derp, but in lieu of that I can honestly say the gearbox functions fine. The replacement belt is correct, and the variator plates (old and new) are perfectly fine. This problem began BEFORE I changed any parts, and that it continues after new parts have been installed correctly is baffling to me. To help ensure I didn't do something impossibly stupid like install the variator backward or something, I also watched videos of such installs and checked photos (as well as forums like this). That's why I'm at such a loss: By all accounts everything is visually intact, installed correctly, and should be working fine. So I'm obviously missing something, and I'm praying somebody has had this exact issue before to go "AH! Yeah, I know the problem". If there is some way I could word a title or search so that it would bring up the issue as described, that would be immensely helpful too. So far all I get are issues relating to valve gap adjustments, belt replacements, and fuel injectors. None of which produce the problem I have. Troubleshooting especially when one has a gremlin that is hard to find is a process of elimination sometimes and people give advice with experiences they have had or read about others having and the suggestions that were given were good ones indeed so let's move on to another one. You said the engine has 10k on it, it may have bad rings and you need to do a compression test on it. itistheride.boards.net/thread/8304/compression-test-readingsJR |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 19:52:17 GMT -5
I understand that. I don't have a compression tester unfortunately and will have to order one. I've owned the scooter for about two years now, and so far haven't had an issue that needed it. I'll order one, however, to trouble shoot that issue in lieu of other ideas. Do you have a recommendation on a specific one?
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Post by gy6er on Jan 16, 2016 20:07:44 GMT -5
For your rear wheel spinning,seems your inner (3) clutch springs are defective. I just installed a brand new gy6 clutch and did the same thing. You will need to take a 38 or 39 mm impact socket and remove huge nut.There is also a youtube video of a guy using hugh adjustable wrench to remove it,I've done that and it works like a charm. Be careful, make sure you can put both feet on the outside of the clutch as they are under spring load. Then you may have a backing plate or maby not. Parts for scooters or scrappy dog scooters will have the springs you need,then you also may need snap ring pliers if you have to remove a back plate. Other than that I find just a regular pic to remove the 3 springs is pretty ok. Beware, sometimes i have bought new springs and installed them only to have same result. You might get a set of 1500 springs and like a set of stock in case the 1st don't work. Don't know about your other issues. I will think the thread over. Make sure you can comfortably reach the clutch when working on. Sometimes you may get the nut off and yet the clutch will not come apart easily but it should. If not you will need to keep foot on it and tap around edges with rubber mallet until it breaks loose. Use pic or preferred method to re install and that should take care of that. Good luck, gettin scoot to truck! As noted in my first post, I've replaced the clutch wholesale. I already have an impact wrench and have replaced those parts. Unless you suppose the springs on the old AND new clutch are somehow defective, but visual inspection doesn't indicate this compared to images I've seen. Here's the thing, I and don't know who else has ever heard of the rear wheel spinning for another reason and just to let you know it is waayyy possible you did wear out your old set of springs and get a botched new set. FYI... I just had a used up battery,got a new one and did the run around when it still just clicked and sat there( solenoid,coil,connections & so forth) cause new batt said 13.6 v, but only after days,now it was only at 3.0 v . Was the new battery was dud also. I have had many dud parts. Just to help not rule out IMO a good cause. I just installed the other day a brand new clutch with the wheel spinning even at idle. Well I know in my case it is the 3 springs. Maby if you order some and have not found a solution,just might fix the ol boy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 20:16:39 GMT -5
I suppose that is possible too. Is there any way I can inspect this to verify that might not be the case? I really cannot afford to buy these parts, the reason I have a scooter is I can't afford anything else.
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