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Post by florida on Nov 21, 2015 2:17:28 GMT -5
 My scoot is a 4 stroke long case w/ 83cc bbk and nearly every high performance modification installed. Im 212lbs and live in very flat Central Florida. Bikes never been ridden in rain. 8000 miles on odometer. ] Installed a dlh performance variator 1000 miles ago with 7.5g rollers. I have 3 8g and 3 7g rollers in the variator About 500 miles after installing it I rode without a helmet on and noticed how loud it was. The new cvt seemed to be "chattering" So, upon inspection of the belt I found it shredded and one of the 3 triangle shaped plastic clips is missing. I cant find the clip, so I think it is lodged down in the variator with the roller weights. I dont have an impact wrench ( or tools ) to take it apart and find out is going on in there. ***I just inspected the variator as best as I can and I spot a few rollers loose and lodged sideways like the ramp glides have broken. Has anyone experienced this? Had to have been the missing clip caused this right? I believe that the new variator is the problem as the v clip is missing but I want to make it work. Its a dlh. I cant afford a high dollar unit. I have seen other forum members do side by side comparison reports with cny/dlh/others. Again, I do have the mnf. specs for belt size, but I belive that because my bike is heavily modified it created problems causing the belt to shred. What caused the belt to shred? Was it too short and riding high on the drive face. The higher torque forces from the bbk? The belts shoddy Chinese manufacturing processes? Its a gates Chinese belt. What size belt should I get for a 139qmb long case? Its a 83cc and heavily modified. I believe my current problems will be remedied with a longer than stock size belt ( for the bigger than stock variator ) and a replacement clip for the moveable drive plate. The rollers might be salvageable. The current belt size is a gates powerlink 729 17.5 30 |
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Post by geh3333 on Nov 21, 2015 2:28:22 GMT -5
Gates are the best belts you can buy . it sounds as if you have some other issue . I've had v- slides break and fall out before , but it was caused by bad tranny bearings. They were so bad that they were causing extra stress on the CVT causing the slides to break. I never had a gates belt break do to a missing v-slide.
You really need to remove the variator and clutch to inspect both.
For some reason you prob have belt slippage caused by a number of possible issues in the CVT or tranny , causing the belt to heat up and be torn apart.
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 21, 2015 7:11:58 GMT -5
There are Gates clones, Is it a powerlink? As for the variator I agree with geh3333 you need to remove the clutch and variator and inspect. John |
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Post by florida on Nov 21, 2015 7:55:30 GMT -5
There are Gates clones, Is it a powerlink? As for the variator I agree with geh3333 you need to remove the clutch and variator and inspect. John Yes, Powelink. |
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Post by lain on Nov 21, 2015 12:16:40 GMT -5
florida You may have gotten a cheap variator set. I have bought them online and half the time the plastic clips as you call them become damaged or disintegrate, and that of course throws EVERYTHING off. It first causes your weights to wobble and wear down while the plate behind it wobbles as well because it can't grab the post on the variator to keep it at one set angle. Then of course the weights wearing down will cause the entire variator to wobble on the boss and throws everything off, and eventually this will cause the belt to get jammed, slip, and work in ways it shouldn't which cause excessive wear and destroy the belt. Kevlar and aramid belts put up to the high torque of the engine as well as occasional abuse from messed up cheap parts and will last a very very long time. I've never seen a kevlar belt snap in even the worst conditions, the best kevlar belt maker I've found so far is MMG. Gates has the best aramid, but I've seen aramid belts snap where kevlar belts don't even get worn down... So obviously kevlar is better. Kevlar is what special ops uses as body armor, if they can put their life in the hands of kevlar then it just seems like the best choice. Then there's rubber... rubber (regular belts) heat up and tear and wear just from being used, even more so in your bbk setup. Rubber also stretches and effectively lowers the amount of power transferred from the engine to the rear wheel...
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Post by florida on Nov 21, 2015 14:24:10 GMT -5
Thank you lain.
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Post by geh3333 on Nov 23, 2015 23:29:09 GMT -5
Personally I've never seen a gates aramid belt snap either , however I do recall someone else may have had it happen. It would take a lot of heat and or tension to snap a gates aramid belt. Kevlar is made of aramid fibers so aramid is kevlar. |
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Post by rockynv on Nov 24, 2015 11:10:39 GMT -5
In Florida heat destroys belts like that and many times it will be a clogged filter on the CVT that is the root cause of the problem. The other issue is that some performance variators have cut down fan blades on the drive faces to reduce the amount of HP required to cool the belt which is fine for a short race however for street use they will not be able to keep the belt cool and it will fail from the lack of airflow especially on hot Florida Roadways.
Gates application of Aramid in belts seems to be better thought out than others using it formulated as Kevlar so I would stick with the Gates Premium or Possibly their G Force belts.
DLH as far as I know is a really cheap product that is known to snap belts. The $29 price tag including 9 rollers and new clutch springs along with a drive boss is too low for them to be of decent quality.
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Post by geh3333 on Nov 24, 2015 12:15:58 GMT -5
I run a fanless drive face and have never had an issue with heat destroying the belt. I later cut the CVT cover to let heat escape but even when it wasn't cut , it was fine. I don't think the heat from the engine along with the heat from normal belt running would cause a gates Kevlar belt to break. Something has to be out of wack to cause that much heat. Bad for ranny bearings , a variator which is stuck fully compressing the belt , or a stuck clutch pulley that will not open will cause of excess tension , belt slippage and high heat hot enough to destroy the belt.
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Post by lain on Nov 24, 2015 13:46:42 GMT -5
Kevlar is a type of aramid yes, but it is a very specific type. Gates aramid is not as strong as kevlar brand aramids. While a gates aramid belt may last a very long time it will still snap, an actual kevlar made belt will not snap, it just won't, period, it's impossible the scooters don't have enough power. You'll have the entire thing fall apart with threads tearing and falling out and the backing will tear and it will still push you home, I can show you the difference between kevlar and regular aramid belts in p[ictures, but you wouldn't be able to identify what's left of the regular aramid belts, while the kevlar belts are torn and tattered but still in one piece. A gates aramid belt or even bando for that matter when damaged enough will just snap if you try to ride it. I have rode some seriously bad looking scooters and gates premium aramid belts snap, unless new. Kevlar even when dried out will not snap, it's just a different composition of aramids but a stronger type.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 24, 2015 16:21:28 GMT -5
That is why Kevlar is known for destroying or prematurely wearing out drive faces. I have seen a number of deeply cut drive faces from the use of Cheap Kevlar Belts that were just left too raw on the sides so that the overly harsh Kevlar cut deep grooves into the faces destroying them in a relatively short time. With the correct belt one should expect to get 50,000 miles or better from a decent variator.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 24, 2015 16:39:07 GMT -5
I run a fanless drive face and have never had an issue with heat destroying the belt. I later cut the CVT cover to let heat escape but even when it wasn't cut , it was fine. I don't think the heat from the engine along with the heat from normal belt running would cause a gates Kevlar belt to break. Something has to be out of wack to cause that much heat. Bad for ranny bearings , a variator which is stuck fully compressing the belt , or a stuck clutch pulley that will not open will cause of excess tension , belt slippage and high heat hot enough to destroy the belt. Big difference between a Summer Ride in PA and South Florida. Here roadway temps can hover around 120 degrees when its only in the high  's out with the CVT case getting too hot to touch without getting a burn. With the sugar sand and other dust blowing around CVT filters clog and overheat belts regularly here. You need to clean CVT filters every 1,000 to 3,000 miles to help prevent this if you ride in a Semi-Tropical area. Won't use a Kevlar belt myself as they shorten the life of the drive faces too much and accelerate the rate of grooving. I get 12,000 miles or better from an OEM belt on my bike and at 30,000 miles have no signs of belt damage to my original variator or clutch while I have seen Kevlar belts eat out drive faces in 4,000 miles a number of times. |
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Post by dyoung1167 on Nov 26, 2015 9:26:38 GMT -5
my first scooter would blow a belt about every month-month and a half or so. very damn annoying. when i got my new scooter they were side by side with the belt covers off and i just happened to look from one to the other (i wasn't trying to figure it out) and i saw that the pulleys on the old scooter were out of whack, meaning not in line, so it was always running a bit warped causing much more friction and tearing up the belts prematurely.
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Post by florida on Nov 27, 2015 18:30:43 GMT -5
my first scooter would blow a belt about every month-month and a half or so. very damn annoying. when i got my new scooter they were side by side with the belt covers off and i just happened to look from one to the other (i wasn't trying to figure it out) and i saw that the pulleys on the old scooter were out of whack, meaning not in line, so it was always running a bit warped causing much more friction and tearing up the belts prematurely. Yea, i might when i get a new belt reinstall the OEM cvt. I think maybe if the missing clip from variator wasnt the problem then the cvt and clutch being out of line might be the culprit. I have found a gates belt at walmart for my long case gy6 and the length and angle are a little bit off. Ive decided to go with an Aramid belt. Napa and Oreilly auto part stores have belts. |
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Post by steve on Nov 28, 2015 7:00:42 GMT -5
Are Gates belts made of Aramid?
I've had several, and they are not much different than the crappy ones that come on the scooter. I ordered a Kevlar one from Scrappy's, and the quality difference was remarkable. There is no comparison between the Gates, and the Kevlar one. Performance was very noticeably better, also
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's out with the CVT case getting too hot to touch without getting a burn. With the sugar sand and other dust blowing around CVT filters clog and overheat belts regularly here. You need to clean CVT filters every 1,000 to 3,000 miles to help prevent this if you ride in a Semi-Tropical area.