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Post by volatilepulse on Oct 21, 2015 1:52:00 GMT -5
Hey guys, fairly new to the forum and owning a scooter. I picked up my Wildfire WFH50-S2 about a month ago and have tuned the carburetor already. I plan to do some regular maintenance in the next day or two but need some assistance.
I've already received my CR7HSA spark plug and my manual recommends to gap at .035 but the 139QMB service manual recommends .024 I believe. Which should I use?
My manual also recommends using 5W-50, 10W-50, or 15W-50 full synthetic oil for both the engine AND final drive. I picked up a bottle of Valvoline 20W-50 Full Synthetic Motorcycle oil but I read on the manual I should be using gear oil in the final drive and 5W-30 for the engine. I'm confused now.
I also need to retune the carb since cold weather is here and I plan on riding it as much as possible through the winter. Any suggestions or what else I should do? Scooter has either 800 or 1300 miles on it (figuring out odometer in the next few days as well).
Thanks for your help in advance.
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Post by cyborg on Oct 21, 2015 8:22:44 GMT -5
i've used 20-50 in bikes for a real long time,,,never had a problem,,,altho it gets really hot here in southern cal,,,,and gear oil is what should be run in the rear gearcase,,,i would not use "engine oil" it is not up to the task
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Post by JerryScript on Oct 21, 2015 12:47:09 GMT -5
When you get your new plug in, take it on a quick WOT ride, then pull the plug and check the color of the ceramic around the tip. Coffee brown is what you want. Too white is too lean, too dark is rich, err on the rich side when tuning (lean is dangerous for gy6 engines).
As for gap, follow your scooter manual.
Welcome to the forums, and enjoy the ride!
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Post by volatilepulse on Oct 21, 2015 13:52:29 GMT -5
Definitely appreciate the advice. Motor oil definitely didn't sound right for the final drive, but my owners manual insists on it. Any specific weight gear oil I should use? Does it need to be full synthetic? I am leaning towards 80w- conventional or 75W- full synthetic. Also, .8 liters is what I've been hearing is the oil capacity of these engines, sound about right? As for the plug, unfortunately, mine is located right above the frame rail and is pointing towards one of the rear plastic pieces. I have a feeling it's going to be a major PITA to get out with removing that panel and these aren't exactly designed with ease of use in mind. I'll debate the WOT run depending on if I can get it in and out without having to remove that panel. One last thing, my scooter squeaks with every bump and squeaks when I mildly apply brakes. The brakes are acceptable and will be taken care of down the round, however, I was wondering if there was a way to silence the suspension, even if only temporarily. I'll have pictures up tomorrow since I got a late start to the day and have a bunch of chores to get done yet (hopefully the last mowing of the year).
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Post by scooter on Oct 21, 2015 18:54:56 GMT -5
i've used 20-50 in bikes for a real long time,,,never had a problem,,,altho it gets really hot here in southern cal,,,,and gear oil is what should be run in the rear gearcase,,,i would not use "engine oil" it is not up to the task Is there 30wt or 10w-40 gear oil? I have seen this recommended in some manuals, but it does not say gear oil or engine oil. It just says oil. What are they referring to?
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Post by volatilepulse on Oct 21, 2015 22:22:47 GMT -5
Alright, I ended up getting the plug replaced and the oil changed. I accidentally put a little too much oil in there but I just took the excess oil, had about 2 ounces too much. I haven't had a chance to run it since I replaced the plug but I will run it WOT and check it. Any advice on how long and can I just leave it on the rear kick stand and run it that way? I noticed my old plug was black and on one side of it, it was slightly lighter than the other, I'm assuming that side was pointed towards the intake valve. Anyways, here's a picture. I stopped by by my local walmart and picked up FloTool's MixMizer from the automotive department. It's a 2oz syringe with a 4" clear plastic tube designed for 2stroke oil/gas mixing. Worked great for removing the excess oil and will need the other one to do my gear fluid. Any recommendations on weight for that? I also decided to check my air filter and while it was surprisingly clean, my best friend said it should be sticky from the oil and I should clean it. He advised buying dirt bike/ATV air cleaner oil on line. Is there anything in a local store I could use, like the K&N air filter cleaner kits? When checking my air filter, I noticed a vacuum line coming off of it that wasn't attached to anything. I wasn't sure where it went, so I stuck it on the only nipple I could find. You can see it in the picture. Is that the right connection? The scooter seems to have more of an issue idling now before it warms up but otherwise seems to run ok. I plan on getting the air filter and gear oil done within the next two days along with tuning the carb since I did work and adjusting the throttle cable since there is A LOT of play in the throttle. Is there anything else I can do while I have the spare time? I thought about checking the valves, but I don't have time to wait for new gaskets as I only have about 48 hours to work on this and can't exactly remove the engine if that needs to be done. If I can adjust the valves with the engine still in the scooter, I'll attempt that too. Thanks for all of your help so far guys.
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Post by cyborg on Oct 22, 2015 8:05:26 GMT -5
75- gear oil is what i'd be running,,,,,as far as air filters go if it's a paper filter do not use oil,,,if it's a gauze cloth type it should be lightly coated
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Post by volatilepulse on Oct 22, 2015 10:15:25 GMT -5
The air filter is a dark grey/black foam. Kind of like a sponge. I'm just not quite sure what kind of oil to use for it. The owners manual is no help and I needed something within driving distance. I have a bunch of auto parts stores near me and some large retail stores.
I'm more concerned at this moment with that airline. In the picture above, it's the line that comes from the air cleaner inlet and runs to the valve cover. The service manual states it's a breather for the crankcase and doesn't show it attached to anything but also doesn't show the air cleaner. The air line is perfect length to reach where it was previously connected. I also noticed a vacuum port on the air cleaner box AFTER the air cleaner that was plugged off and thought it might be better in there. Is anyone able to verify on their 139QMB where the line from the valve cover goes? My car had the same kind of vacuum line running from the intake to the valve cover so it would make sense.
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Post by JerryScript on Oct 22, 2015 21:15:26 GMT -5
Yes, it does go to the air filter housing.
The other one is an oil collector, for the bit of oil that doesn't get sucked back in. Check it when you change oils, drain if necessary, shouldn't be more than a sip.
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Post by volatilepulse on Oct 23, 2015 12:04:21 GMT -5
Thanks Jerry. So I got most of my maintenance done these last three days. A complete list is a new oil change with Valvoline 20W-50 Full Synthetic Motorcylce Oil, a new spark plug using an NGK CR7HSA, cleaned and oiled my foam air filter with the K&N Recharge Kit, changed my gear oil with SuperTech 75W- Synthetic Blend Gear Oil, tightened up my throttle cable so there is minimal play, tuned the carburetor, and took it on a healthy run. I'm working on a write up for when I did the gear oil, even though I'm sure there are plenty on the forum. I have yet to pull my plug back out and check it for a lean or rich condition, but that is on my todo list before I leave for the weekend. I also used the K&N oil prior to knowing there is dedicated foam air filter oil, but I figure it will be better than a completely dry filter. My run showed it didn't harm anything, but I'm trying to get my hands on some No Toil foam filter oil. I can't help but wonder why the scooter still has some trouble starting up. It used to start as soon as I hit the ignition button, now it takes about 2 seconds to fire up and tries to bog out until it's warned up. Any suggestions in that area? Anyways, I appreciate everyone's help and advice.
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Post by volatilepulse on Oct 23, 2015 13:08:53 GMT -5
As promised, here is the write up. Any comments or suggestions? Changing the Gear Oil in Your 50cc Scooter Things you'll need Gear Oil - I used SuperTech 75W- Synthetic Blend Gear Oil from Walmart 10mm Wrench - Mine have been lost or stolen over the years so I used a ratchet Syringe or something similar to fill the gear box - I use the FloTool MixMizer Oil Pan - I just used a cut up bottle Used Oil Container - Apple Juice anyone? Towels - You're bound to make a mess Gloves - If you like to stay clean Drain Plug Washers - Only if needed I did this on my 2008 Wildfire WFH50-S2 139QMB scooter. It only has about 1350km or 850mi. It was easy enough that anyone who could turn a wrench can do. First, start off by locating the two plugs you'll need. One is the fill plug, the other is the drain plug. The drain plug is located on the bottom of the gear box (noted by my gloved finger) And the fill plug is located to the right side, in the bottom right corner of the belt cover Both of these plugs were 10mm on my scooter and we a bit tight. Make sure your scooter is up on the rear kick stand before starting. This not only makes it much easier to work with right bolts, but also allows you to get the right amount of oil into the gear box. I ran my scooter to the gas station and back to warm it up, but it's up to you. Start by breaking loose the fill hole plug. Mine was a bit tight and the scooter shifted when I broke mine loose. Make sure you have your oil pan ready in case any fluid comes out. I had a small stream come out when I removed the plug. If your plug falls into the oil pan like mine did, you'll have to fish it out. Make sure you grab the plug AND the washer. Let the fill hole drain until it's to a slow drip and grab your wrench again. The drain plug is straight up and down and makes it hard to have your oil pan ready while trying to break the plug loose. I broke the plug loose with my ratchet and put my oil pan back under. I unthreaded the plug the rest of the way with my fingers. My plug fell into the oil again as well. Make sure you fish out both the plug AND the washer again. I fished both of my plugs out and cleaned them off. The drain plug, in the top right, had a bit of dirt and debris on it. Check your washers at this point to make sure they're not damaged. It may take a little while for the gear oil to drain, especially if you didn't warm it up prior to starting. I took the time to open my bottle of gear oil up and loaded up my syringe. My manual says the gear box takes 3.5oz so I filled the syringe to the 2oz line. If your left your tube on there like I did, make sure the plunger stops at 2oz. It will still only suck up 2oz of oil. By this point, my oil was drained minus a drop or two. I wiped off the excess oil and reattached my plug (don't forget the washer), making sure it was tight. Do not over tighten the plug or you risk crushing the washer and can cause a leak down the round. I went to stick my syringe in the fill hole and realized that my tube was slightly larger than the hole. This was no good. I took the cap off of the top of the gear oil bottle (the little white thing), and cut the very end of it off. This fit perfectly in the fill hole and I was able to push the oil in as fast as I wanted. Once the syringe is mostly empty, minus some in the tube, go back and fill it up again. I filled it back up to 2oz since I missed a little with my first 2oz, but you should only need 1.5oz. Once you're loaded up, go fill the rest of the gear oil. Make sure you put your oil pan back under where you're working. I had some extra run out, most likely due to using 4oz instead of 3.5oz. If some gear oil runs back out, you're fine. It's just like any other gear box, you fill it until it comes out. Let it drain the excess until it's barely dripping. Wipe up the wet spots and put the plug back in (don't forget the washer). Make sure you make it tight. Double check your work and that both plugs are tight. Make sure that you have no left over parts, like washers. Pour your old gear oil into your used oil container and recycle at you favorite local shop. Clean up should be pretty easy if you used some paper towels or rags to catch the oil drips. Thanks to the advice of the people that have helped. My owners manual said to originally use 5W-50 Engine Oil for the gear box but didn't sound right. The general consensus was to use actual gear oil.
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Post by JerryScript on Oct 23, 2015 16:03:50 GMT -5
I can't help but wonder why the scooter still has some trouble starting up. It used to start as soon as I hit the ignition button, now it takes about 2 seconds to fire up and tries to bog out until it's warned up. Any suggestions in that area? Anyways, I appreciate everyone's help and advice. Have you set the valves? Number one cause of hard starts is valve lash being off.
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Post by volatilepulse on Oct 23, 2015 20:35:10 GMT -5
I can't help but wonder why the scooter still has some trouble starting up. It used to start as soon as I hit the ignition button, now it takes about 2 seconds to fire up and tries to bog out until it's warned up. Any suggestions in that area? Anyways, I appreciate everyone's help and advice. Have you set the valves? Number one cause of hard starts is valve lash being off. I have not. Is this something that can be done with the engine still in the scooter? Do you have a link to a walk through? I did notice my engine was running fairly rich so I leaned it out a bit and it's a tad easier to start now, but still bogs out a bit before warming up. I need to get a video uploaded of it starting cold so you can hear what's going on. If the valves aren't adjusted immediately, will it cause any damage? I doubt I'll have a chance for at least a week but it still needs rode to work in that time.
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Post by JerryScript on Oct 23, 2015 22:22:21 GMT -5
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Post by volatilepulse on Oct 26, 2015 21:42:41 GMT -5
Just got back from my weekend away yesterday and I left my key in the ignition in the on position, oops. I took it out last night thinking nothing of it. This morning I was getting ready for work and went to start the scooter. The electric choke (?) was making sounds with the start button, but no engine cranking. Oh no. It took me a bit to realize I had a kick start as I only used it once. Kicked it to start it a few times and fired up.
I continued my trip to work, thankfully leaving early enough to deal with that issue and went to start the scooter again to test the charge. It fired right up. Great success!
9 hours later, I came out to start the scooter again, no crank. My first thought is I killed the battery from being able to hold a charge now and I'll be stuck kick starting it from now on. No big deal. After 15 minutes of trying to kick start it, it finally turned over and kept going (that part has me worried as well). Since it was late, the first thing I noticed was the dim dash lights and no more low beam. My high beam continues to work, but no low beam. The lights would gradually dim out while running as well until the scooter warmed up.
I recently replaced the severely underpowered 9004 bulb the previous owner installed with a very bright and well powered LED bulb. This is the first time I noticed the bulb was very dim. I could barely see it reflecting on surfaces, let alone on the ground. And go figure, the day all of this happens is the day I forgot my bag of tools at home so I couldn't unhook the battery to see if that assisted the charging system at all.
I'm really starting to hate this whole AC electrical system and I'd love to attempt a DC conversion on it. This winter would be a great opportunity to do that if this is even feasible. I love electrical work on cars and feel this would be easy enough to do, given enough time that is, and I should have 4 months or so to work on this.
My question is though, aside from removing the battery temporary, is there anything else I can do to test the rest of the electrical system? There is a bunch of bugs in it as far as I can tell, but I haven't really read more than to test battery voltage during standby, idle, and under throttle. Also, what all would I need for the AC->DC conversion? I read an 11-pole stator isn't a bad choice, probably a new CDI for the DC system, new rectifier, and probably a large spool of wire. Anything else I'm missing? Anything specific I need to look for when it comes to each piece? And good guides? The money isn't necessarily an issue, but I don't want to buy 10 different stators to find the one I need and don't want to buy the most expensive things I can find if something else is just as good but cheaper, I avoid eBay like the plague when it comes to any electrical stuff. I'm sure this is going to get me in deep over my head, but thankfully, i won't need the scooter anymore, but I've enjoyed it and tinkering with it so I think this would be a great DIY and a chance to learn, and maybe teach someone else, how everything works.
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