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Post by lain on May 20, 2015 6:50:45 GMT -5
The engine shroud gives you less cooling than a standard heatsink on a CPU. It just loosely encloses the area for the fan to blow around, a better approach would be to add heatsinks to draw the heat away and have the shroud push the air out the bottom all around, maybe add a fan to the other side. Idk though, I don;t have any overheating so I haven't invested any real time into the idea. The cylinder jug itself is a heat sink with its cooling fins. The shroud is designed to force air through those fins. Without it, turbulence would make the air flow around them instead of through them. But wouldn't adding more heatsinks help? Like to the valve cover? I barely have a shroud anymore and never messed with it, just have some ideas. I just have a warm engine when I stop I can put my hand on the valve cover without getting burned. I like to run a little on the rich side so my engine stays cool. That's all I do for heat management for my ride.
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Post by hillbillybob on May 20, 2015 7:11:28 GMT -5
This thread is hilarious......I'm having trouble believing geh3333 is for real.... under your tongue ?....seriously? Look....If you want to monitor engine oil temperature you need to get a gauge that is designed to do just that, not something you can stick in a piece of meat to see if it has reached 160*, or under your tongue to see if you have a fever. Something made by Stewart Warner, or VDO....something that says "OIL" on the face of the gauge, and reads to at least 300*F. Then make sure you have the right sender for that gauge. A sender for a 240* water temp gauge, won't work right.....a sender for a gauge with a needle that sweeps 270* won't work right with one that only sweeps *.....don't think I'd mix a gauge and sender of different brands either...at least not without knowing the resistance numbers. Our scooters need a sender that is a M12x1.5 thread. VDO's part number for one this size, and a gauge with a * sweep, is VDO 323092. I'm sure SW and other gauge makers offer them in this size also. This will replace the oil drain plug on the left side (CVT side) of your engine. You need to have a tool designed to do the job, to get it done right. This is all I'll say on this topic.
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Post by geh3333 on May 20, 2015 19:02:51 GMT -5
Why would that not be a way to see it the gauge is accurate ? If it reads tight both ways , that is in boiling water and gives me an accurate body temp, lol. It may be a cheap oil gauge , but many use them . most of these oil gauges sold , that I've seen only go up to 100 degrees Celsius . I'm not sure if they made any other ones or not that go up higher. This is the thing. There is a lot of room left after 100 degrees Celsius, but is not marked. There is about 1/3 of room left for the needle to move , so its not like the needle stops at 100 c and I'm guessing how hot the engine temps have been . it the temps go higher , like recently , the needle will go higher, but at that point since its not marked then I have to guess about what the temp is . considering the numbers are pretty much spaces pretty evenly around the gauge " most of the gauge" , I can then tell about what the engine temps are . its not like I made the oil gauge myself, lol. Its actually made for these scoots .
I also have gauges I use to test the air coming out of the registers for when I work with HVAC. U vcan also use these temp gauges to take the outside temp and to take the temp of really whatever you want. So I'm not sure if I missed something , but how again was testing the gauge in boiling water and taking my body temp a bad way to test a temp gauge ? Was I suppose to take the gauge to a lab and have it put under a microscope and and pay someone $10,000 just to tell me that the gauge is accurate, lol , I would love for the rest of it to be marked but hey , when it usually doesn't go over 100c then why do I need another gauge. Remember it doesn't go that high unless I run it really hard , when my oil pump is working. I'll have to test it again when I get the new pump.
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Post by geh3333 on May 20, 2015 21:26:29 GMT -5
This thread is hilarious......I'm having trouble believing geh3333 is for real.... under your tongue ?....seriously? Look....If you want to monitor engine oil temperature you need to get a gauge that is designed to do just that, not something you can stick in a piece of meat to see if it has reached 160*, or under your tongue to see if you have a fever. Something made by Stewart Warner, or VDO....something that says "OIL" on the face of the gauge, and reads to at least 300*F. Then make sure you have the right sender for that gauge. A sender for a 240* water temp gauge, won't work right.....a sender for a gauge with a needle that sweeps 270* won't work right with one that only sweeps *.....don't think I'd mix a gauge and sender of different brands either...at least not without knowing the resistance numbers. Our scooters need a sender that is a M12x1.5 thread. VDO's part number for one this size, and a gauge with a * sweep, is VDO 323092. I'm sure SW and other gauge makers offer them in this size also. This will replace the oil drain plug on the left side (CVT side) of your engine. You need to have a tool designed to do the job, to get it done right. This is all I'll say on this topic. Hey hillbilly , your saying that these temp gauges being sold will not read the temp of the oil ? I will say your 100% wrong. Is this the right way to do it , no , it would be better to have a gauge that has markings all tthe way around ,but it will read the temp just the same especially if the temp usually doesn't go over the highest mark . heat is heat , if the temp gauge you are using was not meant for high temps it will more then likely break. The oil temp gauge I'm using although only marked up to 212 f - 100c , it will still read higher . it actually has a little over 1/4 of the gauge unmarked . I know it still reads accurate since I tested that. How many of these gauges have you tested these gauges out in oil ? If none then how can you say it won't work ? Just because they only marked the readings up to 100c really doesn't mean much . this I what I suggest. Buy one put it through some tests and give us the results. Actually its the digital thermometers you really need to be careful with. If you get one that only reads up so high , it will destroy them if you use it for above the recommended temps. The temp gauges they sale for the oil dipstick replacement are very durable and will read up to at least 300 f . Did you watch my speed video ? I road pretty much at wot fro that entire run , and when I was not at wot , I was still running her pretty good and that was without a work in oil pump. A week before that I took the scoot for a 2 hr + trip and that was without a working oil pump. How hih do you think my temps were ? That's when the temps got to around 300 degrees may have been a little lower may have been a little higher. But if it the temps were higher then what my gauge said , there was a good chance I would have destroyed my engine , but I obviously did not. Just to let every one know , that the normal temps are between 220-250 f I've seen were others will let the scoot cool if it reaches 270 f . So that means my scoot reaching 212 or so degrees is only off by 8 degrees from normal ! How in gods name is that hard to believe ? , lol. Even if my temp gauge was slightly over 100c let's say 102c , that would be 215 f . remember I have nearly 20k miles on the engine and that could be because of the slightly lower running temps. Also I remember stating , other then the long trip I recently went on , I usually only ride the scoot 12-15 mins at a time , and if im not kistaken many of us only ride our scoots on short trips. This thread was meant to help others , and to keep there engine performing top notch. Its a simple test . if running around 270 or even higher please pull the valve cover and check to see if you are getting oil to the top end. For the ones who want to ridicule others for trying to help , please keep off the thread . remember this is coming from someone with nearly 20k miles on their scoot and has been working on them for awhile now . helping others is why we are here.
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Post by geh3333 on May 20, 2015 21:56:23 GMT -5
The reason I was worried about my scoot temps were because on all the trips I've ever taken " except for the long one " , my temps only ever reached the 212 degree area , even in degree weather. Remember this is a 15min ride at the most. Now I'll reach between 230-270 even on a 5 min ride and in 65 or so degree temps. That's what made me check the oil pump, and luckily I did. So please , if you are having the same type results , check to make sure your pump is working. Even is normal temps are between 220-250 and you are reaching them very quick , I'd check just to be safe. In my opinion you should be able to run the scoot hard and not reach the 250 degrees mark. Especially if you riding in 70 and under outside temps.
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Post by geh3333 on May 20, 2015 22:08:35 GMT -5
geh3333, If your oil temps never went over 212* while running hard, then your temp gauge is not very accurate. Maybe a corroded connection, or bad ground. I have 4 vehicles with oil temp gauges (counting my scooter).....all will climb to over 220* in warm weather when worked.....and other than the scoot, they are liquid/water cooled engines. Both my Camaro, and my Forester, run in excess of 200* just cruising along at 60, on level ground. Now the scoot being air cooled, and only holding 24 ounces of oil, (as opposed to 5 or 6 quarts) is naturally going to run a bit warmer....and that's ok. Todays oils are made to handle higher temps than what they did years ago. Thanks to the EPA, engines run hotter today...my Chevy pickup came with a 210* thermostat, and that is what the water temp runs, winter, summer.....always 210*. Oil temps always exceed water temps on a hot day, or when engine is worked (higher throttle settings) Wikipedi says this..... In petrol (gasoline) engines, the top piston ring can expose the motor oil to temperatures of 160 °C (320 °F). In diesel engines the top ring can expose the oil to temperatures over 315 °C (600 °F). Motor oils with higher viscosity indices thin less at these higher temperatures. Boy, that statement might make some people rethink what type of oil they want to use in their scoots, and lastly, if oil temps were supposed to max at 170* to 200* range, oil temp gauges would not read to 300* Your Wikipedia search is right . however it CAN get that high . that's the high end . it can also be well below 300 degrees . and the heat will dissipate in the oil and through the cylinder and head walls.
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Post by geh3333 on May 21, 2015 0:31:54 GMT -5
The cylinder jug itself is a heat sink with its cooling fins. The shroud is designed to force air through those fins. Without it, turbulence would make the air flow around them instead of through them. But wouldn't adding more heatsinks help? Like to the valve cover? I barely have a shroud anymore and never messed with it, just have some ideas. I just have a warm engine when I stop I can put my hand on the valve cover without getting burned. I like to run a little on the rich side so my engine stays cool. That's all I do for heat management for my ride. How many heat sinks do you have on it ? Can you post a pic. I imagine it would have to draw heat from the engine, I'm just not sure how much . I never tried it.
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Post by geh3333 on May 21, 2015 2:27:55 GMT -5
I just read another post were someon said they saw the normal temps should be between 180-200 f . he also used one of the oil dipstick gauges and his temps around 197 f.
Someone needs do debunk this , because no one has a legitimate answer. I say this because it seems as if no one has ever tested the oil temps with either this kind of gauge or any gauge . when I get the pump installed I will run the scoot with the dipstick gauge , then pull over and drop a different temp gauge into the oil. This way I'll show how accurate it is.
I also just read an old post about someone buying a dipstick gauge that went up to 350f . it was for his 250cc and the oil temps were 180 degrees.
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Post by onewheeldrive on May 21, 2015 2:31:23 GMT -5
It's tempting to get one of these oil temp gauges. Are they available locally or are you guys getting them online? If I could just go to Lowes or an auto parts store and pick one up it'd give me something to do tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I've seen one on a scooter parts site before, but maybe not.
I haven't searched online yet. I actually almost stopped in the local Honda dealer today to see if they had one.
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Post by geh3333 on May 21, 2015 2:48:04 GMT -5
It's tempting to get one of these oil temp gauges. Are they available locally or are you guys getting them online? If I could just go to Lowes or an auto parts store and pick one up it'd give me something to do tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I've seen one on a scooter parts site before, but maybe not. I haven't searched online yet. I actually almost stopped in the local Honda dealer today to see if they had one. How's it going. It seems as if the temps on these scoots are lower then most think . they are Sold on eBay and other scoot stores online. Did you read my last post ? I posted it right before yours . so many think that these scoots are running the same temps as cars. The more I do research, the more I find more info on true gy6 temps. All the ones who say the temps should be higher always mention cars and other vehicles, and do not have an actual oil temp gauge on the scoot . so far it seems like 180-212 are normal.
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Post by geh3333 on May 21, 2015 2:51:27 GMT -5
Throuh out the winter my scoot was running around 80c which is only about 176 f . now thats at 15-20 degrees out.
I even read where someone removed the cooling shroud and still isn't over heating . so it looks as if , when these scoots are running right , and with no problems , the oil temps are no where near as high as what many think.
I wonder how many out there are running with a broken oil pump ?
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Post by onewheeldrive on May 21, 2015 3:01:33 GMT -5
Yeah, just read it.
Not sure how many people have these temp gauges, but the more readings we get the better off we are. Even the type of oil would make a difference.
It's an interesting subject, to be honest.
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Post by geh3333 on May 21, 2015 3:05:01 GMT -5
Yeah, just read it. Not sure how many people have these temp gauges, but the more readings we get the better off we are. Even the type of oil would make a difference. It's an interesting subject, to be honest. Yep., I'm mean , of someone is riding without the cooling shroud and still not overheating we should take notice. I always use royal purple max cycle" . its about 17-18 bucks a quart, but its one of the best , if not the best synthetic motor oil.
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Post by geh3333 on May 21, 2015 3:10:31 GMT -5
I always fall into the unbelievable, lol. That is, on this sight, lol. My scoot hit 67mph on a straight run and I was told " no way " , I used a 32mm carb and I was told " wont work ,way too big !" And now my scoots temps are lower then expected and now its the same " no way " , lol. I've proven both the speed and the 32mm carb theory , now I have to get the temps straightened out. I honestly do not do this on purpose . my scoot always throws my to the wolves, lol. I post these things not realizing that its something that is going to cause others to be skeptical , and then I get hit with this like "is he for real ", lol. Tbh , I like showing others what is possible . Honestly I understand the skepticism , because of other vehicle temps . however when no one actually tries or test these things , and makes a claim as if I'm dead wrong , well let's just say" I think we need to do some real testing before we scold someone "
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Post by scooter on May 21, 2015 3:19:03 GMT -5
I hear of others having oil temps of 240+ even up to 300 degrees. My temps never really went over 212 degrees " and that's running hard " I was told that even 240 + was normal . my temps recently have been between 212 - 270 or so , maybe higher. I found that my oil pump is not working !. After about 20 mins of idling , my scoot had an oil temp of around 167 degrees. That is much higher then previous. My scoot usually idled around 130 degrees. I suggest all with high oil temps check their pump. Take the valve cover off and turn the engine over . you should see oil pumped into the rocker arms and cam bearings. If not then your pump is probably shot. I'm lucky I checked mine . any longer and my cam bearings would not of lasted. I had one last year. I was running just shy of 200F according to mine. itistheride.boards.net/thread/7041/product-review-tank-dipstick-gaugeI too would like to see more readings and less hearsay on the matter. Temps for Nov 2014 show lows of 55F to highs of almost 80F. Those are the temps I was riding at, at the time.
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