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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 0:45:56 GMT -5
How's it going , in the last couple days Dmartin , help me figure out why I had to buy a new battery just about every year. At the same time we found that my headlights where only getting about 7-8 volts. That explains why they were never really bright. About 3-4 years ago I bought a new engine off of eBay . the new engine came with a 6 pole stator and a 5 pin regulator. The engine that came with my scoot only had a 4 pole stator and a 4 pin regulator. The new regulator had an extra black wire that was not present in the scoots 4 pin regulator harness , but the other 4 wires on the regulator were the same as the wires on the scoots harness. I did have to rearrange the 4 wires in the the scoots harness and in the regulator clip so the yellow , green , white , and red wires lined up with each other . I was able it insert the harness into the regulator clip but had to use some electrical tape to hold the harness together so it didn't vibrate loose. For the last 3-4 years I thought everything was ok and really didn't think much of my battery situation since I've heard others say they also have to buy a new battery just about every year. And my dim headlights were another one of those things where many say theirs are also dim , so I didn't pay much attention to them either. Thanks to Dmartin I found out that the black wire that I left unconnected from the voltage regulator was called a sensor or monitor wire . it monitors the voltage of he battery and adjusts how many volts to send to the battery for charging, and without it hooked up I was reading 18+ volts at the battery ! And I was only reading 7-8 volts to the headlights  . I had to run a wire from the black on the regulator to the black on the ignition acc , this dropped the voltage to the battery " battery problem solved" , but I still have an issue with my headlights , because it dropped the voltage to them also. So I either have an issue with a bad wire in the lighting or the way the harness is set up for the 4 pole 4 wire regulator , It may not be correct for the 6 pole 5 wire setup. I checked for bad wire " none found " so instead of busting my head for days figuring out the wiring , I'm going to run the headlights DC , and leave the instrument panel and the small lights in the headlight assembly connected to the regulator since it is putting out enough volts to run them . I know others have bought new engines from eBay and they also came with the 5 pin regulator instead of the 4 pin , so I suggest testing the voltage to the battery with the scoot running to make sure your not over charging . |
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 26, 2015 7:05:47 GMT -5
When you make the change to dc lights recheck your charging voltage.
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Post by lain on Apr 26, 2015 8:29:47 GMT -5
Regulators are important:
So let me get this straight, you have been overcharging by just riding it because it was outputting more than 14 volts? That does sound a bit high being at 18 volts, but how much amperage was it outputting? Maybe at this point you could use a new regulator that goes with your system?
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 18:49:25 GMT -5
When you make the change to dc lights recheck your charging voltage. Yes , I will def recheck charging . I'm thinking I shouldn't have a problem keeping in up with charging. I won't have the lights running during the day , just at night , and its not like I'll be riding for hours at night. Even though , I'm still hoping for enough power to run the lights for as long as I'd like , especially with the h4 55/60 watt bulbs. |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 19:00:54 GMT -5
The main reason of this thread is to let others who have bought a new engine with a different regulator " 4 pin to 5 pin " know , not to leave the black wire unplugged. They will need to run a black wire from the regulator and tap into the black on the ignition . I know many others have issues with having to buy batteries every year , and I know these scoots have dim headlihts but for the past 3-4 years mine have only been running around 7 volts ! You could imagine how dim mine were, ,lol . others may also have this issue . if you have a 6 pole stator and the lights dim bad at idle ,and if you were one of the ones who purchased a new engine with different regulator , this may be your problem also.
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 19:04:17 GMT -5
My situation may be different from others since my 150cc scoot came with a 4 pole stator , and I'm not sure if the wiring is the same as scoots with 6-8 pole stators ?
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 26, 2015 20:01:40 GMT -5
My situation may be different from others since my 150cc scoot came with a 4 pole stator , and I'm not sure if the wiring is the same as scoots with 6-8 pole stators ? Hey George. A couple of things I did that may be food for thought for you. On my scoot I installed a little bank of 4 O’Reilly’s illuminated switches (about $4 each):  Here is what they do: #1: This turns the radio on/off. I need this b/c the radio is inside the trunk, so to turn the volume down I would need to stop, unlock the trunk to get to the radio. This way I can just switch it off and then back on. #2: This controls the little driving light bulb that is in the headlight dish to the side of where the main H4 bulb is (normally “on” at all times). I clipped the wire to the bulb and routed it thru the switch so I can turn this bulb circuit on or off. Why, you might ask, since the tiny ChinaBulb that comes with the scoot is a wimpy little, far left 1 millionth of a watt bulb that barely glows? Well, I wanted this to be a driving light used during the day. So …. I first got an LED stack that gives out WAY more light at a fraction of the current of the ChinaBulb. It’s not bright enough to use as a headlight, but is much more than just the ChinBulb ‘glow’. Then I got a cheap little $20 flasher unit from EBay. The clipped wire first goes to Switch #2, then to the flasher, then back to the LED stack that sits in the hole where the chinaBulb was. With the switch “off” – nothing. With the switch “on” the LED stack flashes – makes it pretty visible to other traffic so they don’t flatten you. Don’t know if Bambi would have paid attention … ps: I happened to have an extra LED stack and put it in the box you should be getting tomorrow. If interested, use it – if not, pass it along. #3: I use this to turn the low beam on or off. The low beam is normally “on” at all times, which I didn’t want since I have a large flasher unit (see Switch #4). So, when Switch #3 is “ON” the H4 low beam illuminates like it normally would; when the switch is off it does not. Either way, sliding the headlight switch to high beam turns on the HIGH beam – so still simple to get instant light even with this switch in the off position. I don’t really use the H4 low beam very much any more except via Switch #4. #4: I have a BIG flasher unit also connected to the H4 low beam, and this turns it on or off. The low beam clipped wire that goes to the input of Switch #3 ALSO goes to the input of Switch #4. But from there the wire goes to the flasher, and from there back to the H4 low beam. So – both Switch #3 and #4 control the H4 low beam ---- #3 giving a steady light when “ON”, #4 giving a flashing H4 low beam when “ON” (much brighter than the flashing LED). Good for a driving light when overcast or foggy – but of course uses much more current than the LED stack. Ps: I mentioned to you I had an extra flasher unit – put it in the box for you. Use or pass along if no interest. This is not like the cheap driving light flasher – this is an ultra high end flasher use mainly on ambulances. Very efficient. !!!BUT!!! – it’s intended to be used ONLY for LED bulbs, and if you use it and wire it directly to your H$ low beam you will for sure burn it out. S – wire it: clipped low beam wire to switch, switch to flasher, flasher to RELAY. Then wire the contacted terminals of the relay from battery to H4 low beam. That way the flasher unit is ONLY driving the relay, and the relay is the thing actually providing current to the H4. Anyway – food for thought maybe. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 26, 2015 20:02:17 GMT -5
When you make the change to dc lights recheck your charging voltage. Yes , I will def recheck charging . I'm thinking I shouldn't have a problem keeping in up with charging. I won't have the lights running during the day , just at night , and its not like I'll be riding for hours at night. Even though , I'm still hoping for enough power to run the lights for as long as I'd like , especially with the h4 55/60 watt bulbs. You're free to do as you wish, but I can tell for 100% fact that if you try running two of those of those lights, you're going to burn up either your R/R or Stator itself. The R/R itself is only 10 AMMP max current R/R... That's 140 wats, assuming you can pull off 14 volts... However, I'm not sure if the 6 pole stator can even produce that many watts and if it does, it's running at absolute max capacity and will eventually fry. Also, if anyone reads this thread and see's Geh is bypassing the AC circuit for the lights and going to power them from DC... You can only do this IF you have the black wire being discussed in this thread.... |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 21:18:17 GMT -5
My situation may be different from others since my 150cc scoot came with a 4 pole stator , and I'm not sure if the wiring is the same as scoots with 6-8 pole stators ? Hey George. A couple of things I did that may be food for thought for you. On my scoot I installed a little bank of 4 O’Reilly’s illuminated switches (about $4 each): Here is what they do: #1: This turns the radio on/off. I need this b/c the radio is inside the trunk, so to turn the volume down I would need to stop, unlock the trunk to get to the radio. This way I can just switch it off and then back on. #2: This controls the little driving light bulb that is in the headlight dish to the side of where the main H4 bulb is (normally “on” at all times). I clipped the wire to the bulb and routed it thru the switch so I can turn this bulb circuit on or off. Why, you might ask, since the tiny ChinaBulb that comes with the scoot is a wimpy little, far left 1 millionth of a watt bulb that barely glows? Well, I wanted this to be a driving light used during the day. So …. I first got an LED stack that gives out WAY more light at a fraction of the current of the ChinaBulb. It’s not bright enough to use as a headlight, but is much more than just the ChinBulb ‘glow’. Then I got a cheap little $20 flasher unit from EBay. The clipped wire first goes to Switch #2, then to the flasher, then back to the LED stack that sits in the hole where the chinaBulb was. With the switch “off” – nothing. With the switch “on” the LED stack flashes – makes it pretty visible to other traffic so they don’t flatten you. Don’t know if Bambi would have paid attention … ps: I happened to have an extra LED stack and put it in the box you should be getting tomorrow. If interested, use it – if not, pass it along. #3: I use this to turn the low beam on or off. The low beam is normally “on” at all times, which I didn’t want since I have a large flasher unit (see Switch #4). So, when Switch #3 is “ON” the H4 low beam illuminates like it normally would; when the switch is off it does not. Either way, sliding the headlight switch to high beam turns on the HIGH beam – so still simple to get instant light even with this switch in the off position. I don’t really use the H4 low beam very much any more except via Switch #4. #4: I have a BIG flasher unit also connected to the H4 low beam, and this turns it on or off. The low beam clipped wire that goes to the input of Switch #3 ALSO goes to the input of Switch #4. But from there the wire goes to the flasher, and from there back to the H4 low beam. So – both Switch #3 and #4 control the H4 low beam ---- #3 giving a steady light when “ON”, #4 giving a flashing H4 low beam when “ON” (much brighter than the flashing LED). Good for a driving light when overcast or foggy – but of course uses much more current than the LED stack. Ps: I mentioned to you I had an extra flasher unit – put it in the box for you. Use or pass along if no interest. This is not like the cheap driving light flasher – this is an ultra high end flasher use mainly on ambulances. Very efficient. !!!BUT!!! – it’s intended to be used ONLY for LED bulbs, and if you use it and wire it directly to your H$ low beam you will for sure burn it out. S – wire it: clipped low beam wire to switch, switch to flasher, flasher to RELAY. Then wire the contacted terminals of the relay from battery to H4 low beam. That way the flasher unit is ONLY driving the relay, and the relay is the thing actually providing current to the H4. Anyway – food for thought maybe. I'll def use them . I used one of the illuminated switches for my fog lights . which now don't work because of crash. U used the 55/60 watt halogen h4 bulbs and powered them from the regulator . you didn't blow or burn anything up did you ? |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 26, 2015 21:31:59 GMT -5
Yes , I will def recheck charging . I'm thinking I shouldn't have a problem keeping in up with charging. I won't have the lights running during the day , just at night , and its not like I'll be riding for hours at night. Even though , I'm still hoping for enough power to run the lights for as long as I'd like , especially with the h4 55/60 watt bulbs. You're free to do as you wish, but I can tell for 100% fact that if you try running two of those of those lights, you're going to burn up either your R/R or Stator itself. The R/R itself is only 10 AMMP max current R/R... That's 140 wats, assuming you can pull off 14 volts... However, I'm not sure if the 6 pole stator can even produce that many watts and if it does, it's running at absolute max capacity and will eventually fry. Also, if anyone reads this thread and see's Geh is bypassing the AC circuit for the lights and going to power them from DC... You can only do this IF you have the black wire being discussed in this thread.... Your saying if I run the h4 bulbs DC I'll still burn the stator or regulator up ? Or if I try to run them AC ? Rcq is running the same bulbs but AC . I'm at the understanding if I run these lights DC , the regulator with the black wire hooked up should not burn up . is this correct ? You would think the regulator would have a limit with the black wire hooked up . I know it monitors how much to send to charge the battery but you think it would have a limit so it doesn't burn up . the. Battery was showing 18+ volts at 3000 rpms without the black wire hooked up . so it had to be much higher at 7500 rpms , maybe close to 20-24 volts ? At what point will the regulator burn up ? If hooked up DC wouldn't the lights just start to drain the battery if they are too much , and not burn the regulator up ? THat is with the black wire connected. Will it be able to keep the battery fully charged when the lights are on ? That I'll have to find out . |
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 26, 2015 21:45:26 GMT -5
Hey George. A couple of things I did that may be food for thought for you. On my scoot I installed a little bank of 4 O’Reilly’s illuminated switches (about $4 each): Here is what they do: #1: This turns the radio on/off. I need this b/c the radio is inside the trunk, so to turn the volume down I would need to stop, unlock the trunk to get to the radio. This way I can just switch it off and then back on. #2: This controls the little driving light bulb that is in the headlight dish to the side of where the main H4 bulb is (normally “on” at all times). I clipped the wire to the bulb and routed it thru the switch so I can turn this bulb circuit on or off. Why, you might ask, since the tiny ChinaBulb that comes with the scoot is a wimpy little, far left 1 millionth of a watt bulb that barely glows? Well, I wanted this to be a driving light used during the day. So …. I first got an LED stack that gives out WAY more light at a fraction of the current of the ChinaBulb. It’s not bright enough to use as a headlight, but is much more than just the ChinBulb ‘glow’. Then I got a cheap little $20 flasher unit from EBay. The clipped wire first goes to Switch #2, then to the flasher, then back to the LED stack that sits in the hole where the chinaBulb was. With the switch “off” – nothing. With the switch “on” the LED stack flashes – makes it pretty visible to other traffic so they don’t flatten you. Don’t know if Bambi would have paid attention … ps: I happened to have an extra LED stack and put it in the box you should be getting tomorrow. If interested, use it – if not, pass it along. #3: I use this to turn the low beam on or off. The low beam is normally “on” at all times, which I didn’t want since I have a large flasher unit (see Switch #4). So, when Switch #3 is “ON” the H4 low beam illuminates like it normally would; when the switch is off it does not. Either way, sliding the headlight switch to high beam turns on the HIGH beam – so still simple to get instant light even with this switch in the off position. I don’t really use the H4 low beam very much any more except via Switch #4. #4: I have a BIG flasher unit also connected to the H4 low beam, and this turns it on or off. The low beam clipped wire that goes to the input of Switch #3 ALSO goes to the input of Switch #4. But from there the wire goes to the flasher, and from there back to the H4 low beam. So – both Switch #3 and #4 control the H4 low beam ---- #3 giving a steady light when “ON”, #4 giving a flashing H4 low beam when “ON” (much brighter than the flashing LED). Good for a driving light when overcast or foggy – but of course uses much more current than the LED stack. Ps: I mentioned to you I had an extra flasher unit – put it in the box for you. Use or pass along if no interest. This is not like the cheap driving light flasher – this is an ultra high end flasher use mainly on ambulances. Very efficient. !!!BUT!!! – it’s intended to be used ONLY for LED bulbs, and if you use it and wire it directly to your H$ low beam you will for sure burn it out. S – wire it: clipped low beam wire to switch, switch to flasher, flasher to RELAY. Then wire the contacted terminals of the relay from battery to H4 low beam. That way the flasher unit is ONLY driving the relay, and the relay is the thing actually providing current to the H4. Anyway – food for thought maybe. I'll def use them . I used one of the illuminated switches for my fog lights . which now don't work because of crash. U used the 55/60 watt halogen h4 bulbs and powered them from the regulator . you didn't blow or burn anything up did you ? Yes, I use that bulb BUT!!!!!!!!!!! I only have ONE headlight, and only use ONE H4 bulb. From what DMartin said, I'm guessing you have TWO headlights and are planning on using TWO H4 bulbs at the same time ... is that right? One H4 - no problem. Two ..... I dunno! |
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 26, 2015 21:47:30 GMT -5
If you have TWO headlights you could always install a switch and just power one or the other at a time.
I can tell you ONE H4 at night is great!
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 26, 2015 21:58:49 GMT -5
You're free to do as you wish, but I can tell for 100% fact that if you try running two of those of those lights, you're going to burn up either your R/R or Stator itself. The R/R itself is only 10 AMMP max current R/R... That's 140 wats, assuming you can pull off 14 volts... However, I'm not sure if the 6 pole stator can even produce that many watts and if it does, it's running at absolute max capacity and will eventually fry. Also, if anyone reads this thread and see's Geh is bypassing the AC circuit for the lights and going to power them from DC... You can only do this IF you have the black wire being discussed in this thread.... Your saying if I run the h4 bulbs DC I'll still burn the stator or regulator up ? Or if I try to run them AC ? Rcq is running the same bulbs but AC . I'm at the understanding if I run these lights DC , the regulator with the black wire hooked up should not burn up . is this correct ? You would think the regulator would have a limit with the black wire hooked up . I know it monitors how much to send to charge the battery but you think it would have a limit so it doesn't burn up . the. Battery was showing 18+ volts at 3000 rpms without the black wire hooked up . so it had to be much higher at 7500 rpms , maybe close to 20-24 volts ? At what point will the regulator burn up ? If hooked up DC wouldn't the lights just start to drain the battery if they are too much , and not burn the regulator up ? THat is with the black wire connected. Will it be able to keep the battery fully charged when the lights are on ? That I'll have to find out . I'm quite busy tonight so If I don't get back to ya, bare with me..... Volts are only one part of electrical capacitance value. You also have to take into account Amps... Amps, x Volts = watts... Now, watts can be directly translated into heat. To keep it simple, just think of it like this, more watts equals more heat..... Excessive heat is the number 1 killer of R/R's and Stators... If you examine the diagram I produced in the other thread with the R/R's specs, this R/R is spec'd to 10 AMPs MAX for the A/C input... That is not an RMS value... It also list the DC charge output MAX value at 5500 RPM's/6 AMP's/14.6 volts...That is 87.6 watts you have available at MAX charge... Now you're correct in assuming the R/R will automatically adjust now that you have the black wire hooked up, but it can not adjust beyond it's rated specs.. Is what would happen, is you would wind up running it at max capacity and that thing would be very hot to the touch even, then eventually fail to the heat.... Just do the math....you have 87.6 watts available... Them two lights you're talking about is a whopping 120 watts... And that's not talking about your tail, indicator and instrument lights. As to Rcq's setup? Who know's... Like you've seen, you can hook it up and get light, but you're going to be wreaking havoc on you're electrical... He may have an 8 or 11 pole stator with a full wave R/R... Full wave theoretically doubles your electrical output. *edit, now I know why... He only has one... His scoot would have no problems supporting one of these lights.  |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 26, 2015 22:02:24 GMT -5
Yes, I use that bulb BUT!!!!!!!!!!! I only have ONE headlight, and only use ONE H4 bulb. From what DMartin said, I'm guessing you have TWO headlights and are planning on using TWO H4 bulbs at the same time ... is that right? One H4 - no problem. Two ..... I dunno! Yes, that is his plan and his setup would in no way support that much of a power draw... One H4 he would be able to run no prob,.... |
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 26, 2015 22:42:29 GMT -5
DM says you have TWO headlights ... so here is a suggestion.
1. The flasher you will receive tomorrow is ideal for you. It has TWO outputs and is really designed to blink the lights alternately (it has 7 blink modes, I think - so "alternately" isn't exactly correct). Let's say it is designed to use TWO lights that blink in some sort of synchronized mode,. Having only ONE hedlight I can only use one output -- but you can use both. Ideal.
2 At the moment you probably can't run both at the same time. I don't know what the current draw would be running the two H4 bulbs 'alternately' - there is a large surge current when they turn on, so it might be you can't run both lights even though they are alternating and not really going "on at the same time". I don't know.
3. If you everntually upgraded to a more robust )8 or 11 pole) stator, and a beefier RR, I would imagine you could do whatever you wanted. So ---- you have a "TRANSITION" issue.
4. A solution might be to add TWO switches - one for each headlight bulb - so you could turn on none, either one, or both according to your switch. You can also run the flasher output to the switch so it controls whatever you are feeding to the bulb(s) - either a continuous current (as in simply using them at night) or flashing (as in using them during the day). Then, for now, just keep only ONE switch "on" so you don't draw too much current for what your electrical system can supply.
5. Then - if in 6 months you upgrade to a bigger output stator and RR, you can simply have both switches "ON" and bingo - instant upgrade to a 2-bulb system
6. Trust me - ONE H4 at night is great !!!!!!
7. Just make sure you also don't blast both HIGH beams when you switch on the high beams. Either don't connect the wire to one of the H$ high beam terminals, or have a pair of switches for them as well. I'd personally go with the first - tape it off inside the headlight cavity, then it's simple to attach once you upgrade stators (if you do). Again - ONE H4 high beam is GREAT at night!
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