New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 37 
Likes: 1
Joined: Apr 12, 2015 9:26:24 GMT -5
|
Post by wamgaming on Apr 12, 2015 19:37:27 GMT -5
what is this thing called? Do any of the wires on the cdi have the same color on the ignition switch?(the pink) Do you have power at the solenoid? I look pictures of the ignition switch, the cdi unit and the starter solenoid with its plug. I just retested, touching the positive side of the battery and both green(positive) and green and yellow leads at the ignition switch. Somehow they both read 13.2volts. Weird? How can that be? |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Apr 12, 2015 19:41:59 GMT -5
I can not see the colors on the ignition switch , I see green and yellow (in the pic)
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Apr 12, 2015 19:45:30 GMT -5
does this have reverse? show me the shifter where it connects. some buggies have a neutral safety switch. If it is in gear it will interrupt.
John
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
Joined: Apr 12, 2015 9:26:24 GMT -5
|
Post by wamgaming on Apr 12, 2015 20:07:48 GMT -5
does this have reverse? show me the shifter where it connects. some buggies have a neutral safety switch. If it is in gear it will interrupt. John There is no switch on the gear shifter. Here is the ignition wires  This is the ignition switch with what is written on it  |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Apr 12, 2015 20:30:16 GMT -5
did you pull any wires off the cdi?
How is the drive set up with an external trans or an internal?
Whats your engine number?
|
|
|
|
Post by lain on Apr 13, 2015 1:09:59 GMT -5
It kind of sounds like when you retested you said you were touching the battery positive and the wires, it reads 13.2 because you were not reading the wires, you were reading the battery and using the wires as ground.
Go back a step, use the meter and touch the red wire on the meter to the wires, and touch the black wire on the meter to the frame, and then check again the same way but with the black wire on the meter to the negative of the battery.
Your starter solenoid and relay look like they could use some new wires, I suspect you may either need new wires or may have a wire making contact with another or the frame where it shouldn't.
Try to read for stray power leak by putting the black wire of the meter on the negative of the battery, and the positive on the frame in various places, but I would start with near the area where the switch goes and along the area where the wires run. Unless you have exposed all wires and checked them all individually this could be a way to test for it.
I once had a leak basically where one of my positive wires going to my ignition was frayed after someone tried to steal my ride. It gave weak battery symptoms and then stopped responding altogether till I traced all the wires and found the issue, but before I traced the wires I did the above test and found there was power coming from the frame, and there shouldn't be any power coming from the frame.
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Apr 13, 2015 9:26:04 GMT -5
It kind of sounds like when you retested you said you were touching the battery positive and the wires, it reads 13.2 because you were not reading the wires, you were reading the battery and using the wires as ground. Go back a step, use the meter and touch the red wire on the meter to the wires, and touch the black wire on the meter to the frame, and then check again the same way but with the black wire on the meter to the negative of the battery. Your starter solenoid and relay look like they could use some new wires, I suspect you may either need new wires or may have a wire making contact with another or the frame where it shouldn't. Try to read for stray power leak by putting the black wire of the meter on the negative of the battery, and the positive on the frame in various places, but I would start with near the area where the switch goes and along the area where the wires run. Unless you have exposed all wires and checked them all individually this could be a way to test for it. I once had a leak basically where one of my positive wires going to my ignition was frayed after someone tried to steal my ride. It gave weak battery symptoms and then stopped responding altogether till I traced all the wires and found the issue, but before I traced the wires I did the above test and found there was power coming from the frame, and there shouldn't be any power coming from the frame. We were telling him to check his ground wires that way. His ground, green, wire is obviously good. I don't know about the other two wires. I would suggest he run a continuity meter across the terminals of the ignition so he can see how they function. That might help him hook them up correctly. Obviously, two of the terminals should not have continuity until the switch is turned on. The terminal for the lights and the engine electric should read continuous with the key on. If two of the terminals are continuous with the switch in the off position, then I'd assume those were the two hot wires. If there is an accessory only terminal, it should be continuous when the key is in the accessory position, and the other terminal should not be. |
|
|
|
Post by lain on Apr 13, 2015 11:55:43 GMT -5
It kind of sounds like when you retested you said you were touching the battery positive and the wires, it reads 13.2 because you were not reading the wires, you were reading the battery and using the wires as ground. Go back a step, use the meter and touch the red wire on the meter to the wires, and touch the black wire on the meter to the frame, and then check again the same way but with the black wire on the meter to the negative of the battery. Your starter solenoid and relay look like they could use some new wires, I suspect you may either need new wires or may have a wire making contact with another or the frame where it shouldn't. Try to read for stray power leak by putting the black wire of the meter on the negative of the battery, and the positive on the frame in various places, but I would start with near the area where the switch goes and along the area where the wires run. Unless you have exposed all wires and checked them all individually this could be a way to test for it. I once had a leak basically where one of my positive wires going to my ignition was frayed after someone tried to steal my ride. It gave weak battery symptoms and then stopped responding altogether till I traced all the wires and found the issue, but before I traced the wires I did the above test and found there was power coming from the frame, and there shouldn't be any power coming from the frame. We were telling him to check his ground wires that way. His ground, green, wire is obviously good. I don't know about the other two wires. I would suggest he run a continuity meter across the terminals of the ignition so he can see how they function. That might help him hook them up correctly. Obviously, two of the terminals should not have continuity until the switch is turned on. The terminal for the lights and the engine electric should read continuous with the key on. If two of the terminals are continuous with the switch in the off position, then I'd assume those were the two hot wires. If there is an accessory only terminal, it should be continuous when the key is in the accessory position, and the other terminal should not be. 3 terminals, 3 wires... only 9 possibilities. Just try all 9 possible ways to hook up the wire, if ALL of them don't work then it's something else. If the power coming out of the wires is 5v and the battery is giving 13.2, you are obviously losing power somewhere between the battery and the ignition switch. Possible bad wire, frayed, burnt, or bad connection or bad ground. |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
Joined: Apr 12, 2015 9:26:24 GMT -5
|
Post by wamgaming on Apr 13, 2015 12:15:55 GMT -5
We were telling him to check his ground wires that way. His ground, green, wire is obviously good. I don't know about the other two wires. I would suggest he run a continuity meter across the terminals of the ignition so he can see how they function. That might help him hook them up correctly. Obviously, two of the terminals should not have continuity until the switch is turned on. The terminal for the lights and the engine electric should read continuous with the key on. If two of the terminals are continuous with the switch in the off position, then I'd assume those were the two hot wires. If there is an accessory only terminal, it should be continuous when the key is in the accessory position, and the other terminal should not be. 3 terminals, 3 wires... only 9 possibilities. Just try all 9 possible ways to hook up the wire, if ALL of them don't work then it's something else. If the power coming out of the wires is 5v and the battery is giving 13.2, you are obviously losing power somewhere between the battery and the ignition switch. Possible bad wire, frayed, burnt, or bad connection or bad ground. Ok so thinking out loud here. If I try all the possibly combinations, and none work. How to I measure the voltage at the ignition. Sorry for the dumb question but do I put the positive on a lead and negative to ground? Positive and negative leads on the positive and negative wires at the switch? If it checks out at 13.2v at the switch, it must then be the starter solenoid? Correct? |
|
|
|
Post by lain on Apr 13, 2015 12:27:26 GMT -5
wamgaming 3 terminals, 3 wires... only 9 possibilities. Just try all 9 possible ways to hook up the wire, if ALL of them don't work then it's something else. If the power coming out of the wires is 5v and the battery is giving 13.2, you are obviously losing power somewhere between the battery and the ignition switch. Possible bad wire, frayed, burnt, or bad connection or bad ground. Ok so thinking out loud here. If I try all the possibly combinations, and none work. How to I measure the voltage at the ignition. Sorry for the dumb question but do I put the positive on a lead and negative to ground? Positive and negative leads on the positive and negative wires at the switch? If it checks out at 13.2v at the switch, it must then be the starter solenoid? Correct? The starter and solenoid are devices powered by the battery on a separate circuit, they have nothing to do with the power to your lights and dash and controls. The starter button just sends a signal to the switch in the solenoid to make it bridge the 2 big terminals on top to feed the power to the starter, it does not actually give it power, the power comes from the battery to the solenoid to the starter. Yes, you use the positive of the meter to "probe" wires to see which wires have voltage and how much they have. The negative of the meter is just ground so connect it to the frame or a grounding wire. |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
Joined: Apr 12, 2015 9:26:24 GMT -5
|
Post by wamgaming on Apr 13, 2015 12:32:05 GMT -5
Ok so thinking out loud here. If I try all the possibly combinations, and none work. How to I measure the voltage at the ignition. Sorry for the dumb question but do I put the positive on a lead and negative to ground? Positive and negative leads on the positive and negative wires at the switch? If it checks out at 13.2v at the switch, it must then be the starter solenoid? Correct? The starter and solenoid are devices powered by the battery on a separate circuit, they have nothing to do with the power to your lights and dash and controls when the engine isn't even on yet. The starter button just sends a signal to the switch in the solenoid to make it bridge the 2 big terminals on top to feed the power to the starter, it does not actually give it power, the power comes from the battery to the solenoid to the starter. Yes, you use the positive of the meter to "probe" wires to see which wires have voltage and how much they have. The negative of the meter is just ground so connect it to the frame or a grounding wire. I should be looking for 13.2 on the positive. On the negative that it has continuity to ground. And on the accessory 13.2 as well. |
|
|
|
Post by lain on Apr 13, 2015 12:49:10 GMT -5
The starter and solenoid are devices powered by the battery on a separate circuit, they have nothing to do with the power to your lights and dash and controls when the engine isn't even on yet. The starter button just sends a signal to the switch in the solenoid to make it bridge the 2 big terminals on top to feed the power to the starter, it does not actually give it power, the power comes from the battery to the solenoid to the starter. Yes, you use the positive of the meter to "probe" wires to see which wires have voltage and how much they have. The negative of the meter is just ground so connect it to the frame or a grounding wire. I should be looking for 13.2 on the positive. On the negative that it has continuity to ground. And on the accessory 13.2 as well. You got it |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
Joined: Apr 12, 2015 9:26:24 GMT -5
|
Post by wamgaming on Apr 18, 2015 14:05:23 GMT -5
I should be looking for 13.2 on the positive. On the negative that it has continuity to ground. And on the accessory 13.2 as well. You got it Ok sorry for the late response have had a busy week and am just able to start working on it again. I have ground on the green plug to the engine. But I do not have any power from the green and yellow. The green and yellow cable has continuity through it so that must mean the starter solenoid is not sending power to the switch correct? |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
Joined: Apr 12, 2015 9:26:24 GMT -5
|
Post by wamgaming on Apr 18, 2015 14:45:19 GMT -5
It kind of sounds like when you retested you said you were touching the battery positive and the wires, it reads 13.2 because you were not reading the wires, you were reading the battery and using the wires as ground. Go back a step, use the meter and touch the red wire on the meter to the wires, and touch the black wire on the meter to the frame, and then check again the same way but with the black wire on the meter to the negative of the battery. Your starter solenoid and relay look like they could use some new wires, I suspect you may either need new wires or may have a wire making contact with another or the frame where it shouldn't. Try to read for stray power leak by putting the black wire of the meter on the negative of the battery, and the positive on the frame in various places, but I would start with near the area where the switch goes and along the area where the wires run. Unless you have exposed all wires and checked them all individually this could be a way to test for it. I once had a leak basically where one of my positive wires going to my ignition was frayed after someone tried to steal my ride. It gave weak battery symptoms and then stopped responding altogether till I traced all the wires and found the issue, but before I traced the wires I did the above test and found there was power coming from the frame, and there shouldn't be any power coming from the frame. We were telling him to check his ground wires that way. His ground, green, wire is obviously good. I don't know about the other two wires. I would suggest he run a continuity meter across the terminals of the ignition so he can see how they function. That might help him hook them up correctly. Obviously, two of the terminals should not have continuity until the switch is turned on. The terminal for the lights and the engine electric should read continuous with the key on. If two of the terminals are continuous with the switch in the off position, then I'd assume those were the two hot wires. If there is an accessory only terminal, it should be continuous when the key is in the accessory position, and the other terminal should not be. Ok so this is weird. I hooked a jumper cable to my break switch and when I did that I get continuity between my positive and negative terminals. Why might this be? |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Apr 18, 2015 17:12:03 GMT -5
3 wires on the spring loaded ignition switch, 1 wire is power from the battery, when the key gets turned internal in the switch it bridges power to one of the other two wires. When you turn the key on the spring position the third wire gets power and the stater turns. You could be working the other way and instead of making 12v power you could be switching ground/making a path to ground.
John
|
|
