New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 43
Likes: 9
Joined: Mar 21, 2015 23:22:52 GMT -5
|
Post by upfartoolate on Mar 24, 2015 12:48:03 GMT -5
I'm looking for something along the lines of the BalanceMasters active balancer that they use on ultralight airplane props... it's a metal disc with mercury inside a tube that runs the perimeter of the disc. It operates on the same principle as the wheel balancing beads.
Unfortunately, BalanceMasters doesn't have one that'd fit my flywheel, and don't seem interested in fabricating one. So... anyone know of any company making these or something similar?
I'll be getting the rotating assembly professionally dynamically balanced to 1/10th of a gram after the new piston gets ceramic-coated, but an active balancer would make things that much smoother, since it'd help to damp second-order vibration.
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 24
Likes: 7
Joined: Feb 5, 2015 12:48:31 GMT -5
|
Post by spudsmckinsey on Mar 25, 2015 8:35:15 GMT -5
That should be one smooth motor.
I use the balance beads in my scooter tires but have never heard of anything like that for scooters.
How many beans did the professional balancing set you back if you dont mind my asking?
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 43
Likes: 9
Joined: Mar 21, 2015 23:22:52 GMT -5
|
Post by upfartoolate on Mar 25, 2015 14:14:02 GMT -5
I haven't gotten it done yet. First, I'm having roller lifters fabricated to replace the flat tappet lifters. Baisley HiPerformance is doing that work.
Then I'll have a new cam ground to take advantage of the roller lifters (faster lift and seat, slightly longer open time). It'll also be ground to get rid of valve overlap. That'll hurt cylinder scavenging, but improve fuel efficiency. The custom expansionary exhaust I'll build will reflect a negative pressure pulse back toward the exhaust valve just before it closes (at 6500 RPM, the engine speed at highway speeds). Thus, the cylinder will have a partial vacuum locked in it.
When the intake valve next opens, that partial vacuum will help to pack more air into the cylinder by aiding in getting the air's velocity up.
Then I'll have a new connecting rod fabricated, with an offset big end. This will increase mechanical efficiency on the power stroke and reduce piston side-loading force. The new rod will be stronger than the OEM rod, so I can extend the rev limiter from 9,200 RPM to 11,000 RPM without worrying about sending the connecting rod through the crankcase.
I'll order a new OEM crankshaft, and have it and the connecting rod cryogenically treated, micro-polished and coated with tungsten sulfide. That'll make the metal less prone to stress fracture, and reduce friction.
After that's all done, I'll have it balanced. Then it'll go in the bike with the hybrid ceramic bearings I ordered from MicroBlue Bearings.
Along with the new crank and conrod, there'll be the new head with roller lifters, a new piston, and a new cylinder.
The new head will have the combustion-chamber-facing parts of the head and the exposed parts of the valves coated with ceramic by Swain Tech Coatings.
The piston will get WPC treated all over, inside and out, to remove stress risers and form a hard outer layer in the metal. Then it'll get MicroBlue tungsten sulfide on the piston skirts. Then it'll get Swain Tech ceramic on the piston face.
The new cylinder will be WPC treated, then coated with tungsten sulfide to reduce friction. The piston will get a Total Seal gapless top ring, and will run the OEM oil control ring and second ring. The rings will also be coated with tungsten sulfide.
That should make the engine run much more smoothly, give it more power due to lower friction, increase fuel efficiency and make it last much longer. But an active balancer would make it butter smooth.
I might have to end up making my own... I'll have to source mercury... it won't take a lot, just 15 milliliters, which would weigh about 200 grams. That should be plenty to balance our small engines.
I suspect they manufacture the whole thing, balance it, drill a tiny hole on the inside of the tube, inject the mercury with a syringe while the tube ring is positioned such that the hole is horizontal, then seal up the hole by brazing. Hold the tube vertical with the hole at the (inside) top, the mercury goes to the bottom of the tube, so no mercury fumes while brazing. When it's spinning, there's no interaction between the brazed hole and the mercury, since the mercury is flung to the outside of the tube, and the brazed hole is on the inside diameter. Thus no possibility of leakage.
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 43
Likes: 9
Joined: Mar 21, 2015 23:22:52 GMT -5
|
Post by upfartoolate on Mar 25, 2015 14:23:13 GMT -5
Oooh... idea. Rather than a whole balancer that bolts behind the flywheel, why not just make a tube partially filled with mercury that fits inside the existing flywheel? Much simpler construction, no chance of it flying apart at high RPM (since the flywheel is the supporting structure)... I've got to think of a way of fastening it into the flywheel, though.
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Mar 25, 2015 16:50:12 GMT -5
Oooh... idea. Rather than a whole balancer that bolts behind the flywheel, why not just make a tube partially filled with mercury that fits inside the existing flywheel? Much simpler construction, no chance of it flying apart at high RPM (since the flywheel is the supporting structure)... I've got to think of a way of fastening it into the flywheel, though. It doesn't have to be mercury. You can use a safer material. I believe tiny ball bearings can be used as a balancer too. Don't cars have something called a harmonic balancer, like a flywheel with a rubber bushing in it?
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 43
Likes: 9
Joined: Mar 21, 2015 23:22:52 GMT -5
|
Post by upfartoolate on Mar 25, 2015 22:50:21 GMT -5
We could use the same method used to balance the Mini Cooper engines... a steel ring inside a thick silicone gel. But that'd increase the overall dimensions due to packaging considerations. There's no danger from mercury if it doesn't leak out. The problem with tiny ball bearings is that they eventually wear, so you get a lot of metal "dust" rather than bearings, which clumps up, prevents the bearings from moving freely, and throws off the balance.
{EDIT} Another idea... rather than just one ring, have a flat container with thick silicone gel in it, with several differently sized rings. Thus, the different harmonic frequencies of the various rings means the active balancer can absorb a wide range of frequencies of vibration. It'd be shallow, just wider than the rings themselves... but figuring out how and where to mount it would be a pain. Perhaps it could be machined as part of the variator engine-side sheave.
I'll have to get a clear container, some silicone gel, several different ring sizes, and an electric motor and speed controller, and do some experimentation. That could be a pretty effective means of damping vibrations, and a new product category... vibration damping variators.
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 43
Likes: 9
Joined: Mar 21, 2015 23:22:52 GMT -5
|
Post by upfartoolate on Mar 26, 2015 21:40:56 GMT -5
Ok, so I did a bit of research.
Come to find out Balance Masters puts their mercury in neoprene tubing. I intend to use metal tubing for mine.
It appears that the best readily available common metal to hold mercury is AM350 stainless. It's pretty close on the galvanic scale, so there won't be any galvanic interaction between the two metals, and mercury doesn't interact with AM350 like it does with some other metals (which dissolve in mercury).
AM350 consists of the following: Carbon: 0.09% Manganese: 0.80% Silicon: 0.30% Chromium: 16.5% Nickel: 4.3% Molybdenum 2.75% Nitrogen: 0.10% Iron: 75.16%
According to the Hand Book of Chemistry by Leopold Gmelin and the paper titled 'Mechanism And Kinetics Of Corrosion Of Selected Iron And Cobalt Alloys In Refluxing Mercury' by NASA: Mercury won't interact with carbon unless there is potash present. Mercury won't interact with manganese unless there is chloride present. Mercury won't interact with silicon unless there are nitrates or fluorine present. Mercury won't interact with chromium unless there is nitric acid present. Mercury won't interact with nickel unless there is chloride present. Mercury won't interact with molybdenum unless there is potash and nitric acid present. Mercury won't interact with nitrogen unless there is hydrofluoric acid and water present. Mercury doesn't seem to interact with iron at all.
NASA tested AM350 in boiling mercury for as long as 5000 hours at 1300 degrees F, and found only a moderate surface etching and uniform wall recession with only slight surface roughening and grain transformation, with no marked changes in the corrosion zone over time or temperature... so AM350 should stand up pretty easily to mercury that isn't boiling at 1300 degrees F.
AM350 is sold in a variety of tubing sizes, is ductible enough to form it into a loop, and is readily brazed or welded to close the loop.
If I can't find any commercially available active balancers, I plan on buying some mercury and AM350, getting the AM350 cryo-treated (which increases its resistance to corrosion), forming it into a loop and welding it shut, drilling a hole in the inner part of the ring, using a syringe to put the mercury in, then brazing the hole shut.
Then I'll dip the whole thing in liquid neoprene a few times to get a thick coat. It'll slip inside the flywheel, held in place by the force fit between the rubber coating and the inner surface of the flywheel. Since it'll expand a little when it heats up (which I'm assuming it'll do with liquid metal whirring around in it at several thousand RPM, with nowhere for the heat to go since it's insulated by rubber), it'll lock itself in even tighter as it warms up.
I plan on replacing the OEM generator stator with a flywheel that has magnets embedded in it. That second flywheel will fit in the space where the OEM stator sat, and will be connected to the shaft of a proper brushless waterproof alternator, with a proper voltage regulator to replace the OEM ground-shunt regulator. That will increase the electrical generation capabilities of the bike, and save that power that would have otherwise been shunted to ground. So with the new alternator-side flywheel, there'll be room for the balancer inside the engine-side flywheel without interfering with the alternator-side flywheel.
|
|
|
Post by nulldevice on Dec 11, 2015 13:56:32 GMT -5
Where are you finding the room to put your ring inside the flywheel? There are a bunch of wire coils in there for running and charging the electrics.Are you removing the stator and running a full loss electric and ignition system?
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 43
Likes: 9
Joined: Mar 21, 2015 23:22:52 GMT -5
|
Post by upfartoolate on Dec 11, 2015 14:19:37 GMT -5
No. I'll be removing the stator, and creating a second flywheel that fits inside the OEM flywheel, with magnets in it to transfer torque between the two flywheels. That second flywheel will be fit on the shaft of a conventional (but small) 30 amp regulated brushless waterproofed alternator that will be mounted external to where the OEM stator now sits.
This is to do away with the ground-shunt voltage regulator. The OEM setup generates power at full capacity all the time, and dumps any excess to ground, which is a waste. A side benefit is that I'll have about 10 amps more generating capacity.
So I should be able to create the balancer such that it fits inside the second flywheel, while being mounted to the first.
|
|
|
Post by pistonguy on Dec 18, 2015 11:37:55 GMT -5
I haven't gotten it done yet. First, I'm having roller lifters fabricated to replace the flat tappet lifters. Baisley HiPerformance is doing that work. Then I'll have a new cam ground to take advantage of the roller lifters (faster lift and seat, slightly longer open time). It'll also be ground to get rid of valve overlap. That'll hurt cylinder scavenging, but improve fuel efficiency. The custom expansionary exhaust I'll build will reflect a negative pressure pulse back toward the exhaust valve just before it closes (at 6500 RPM, the engine speed at highway speeds). Thus, the cylinder will have a partial vacuum locked in it. When the intake valve next opens, that partial vacuum will help to pack more air into the cylinder by aiding in getting the air's velocity up. Then I'll have a new connecting rod fabricated, with an offset big end. This will increase mechanical efficiency on the power stroke and reduce piston side-loading force. The new rod will be stronger than the OEM rod, so I can extend the rev limiter from 9,200 RPM to 11,000 RPM without worrying about sending the connecting rod through the crankcase. I'll order a new OEM crankshaft, and have it and the connecting rod cryogenically treated, micro-polished and coated with tungsten sulfide. That'll make the metal less prone to stress fracture, and reduce friction. After that's all done, I'll have it balanced. Then it'll go in the bike with the hybrid ceramic bearings I ordered from MicroBlue Bearings. Along with the new crank and conrod, there'll be the new head with roller lifters, a new piston, and a new cylinder. The new head will have the combustion-chamber-facing parts of the head and the exposed parts of the valves coated with ceramic by Swain Tech Coatings. The piston will get WPC treated all over, inside and out, to remove stress risers and form a hard outer layer in the metal. Then it'll get MicroBlue tungsten sulfide on the piston skirts. Then it'll get Swain Tech ceramic on the piston face. The new cylinder will be WPC treated, then coated with tungsten sulfide to reduce friction. The piston will get a Total Seal gapless top ring, and will run the OEM oil control ring and second ring. The rings will also be coated with tungsten sulfide. That should make the engine run much more smoothly, give it more power due to lower friction, increase fuel efficiency and make it last much longer. But an active balancer would make it butter smooth. I might have to end up making my own... I'll have to source mercury... it won't take a lot, just 15 milliliters, which would weigh about 200 grams. That should be plenty to balance our small engines. I suspect they manufacture the whole thing, balance it, drill a tiny hole on the inside of the tube, inject the mercury with a syringe while the tube ring is positioned such that the hole is horizontal, then seal up the hole by brazing. Hold the tube vertical with the hole at the (inside) top, the mercury goes to the bottom of the tube, so no mercury fumes while brazing. When it's spinning, there's no interaction between the brazed hole and the mercury, since the mercury is flung to the outside of the tube, and the brazed hole is on the inside diameter. Thus no possibility of leakage. Some list of custom parts there toolate. Question, are you reducing overlap and staying with oe compression Ratio or Reducing that also? In my experience I think you will find that TiN coating on the Top Two rings works Very well or Better than The Tungsten. Better Rings can be sourced from NPR here in the States if ya know were to look, Total Seal can mod to gapless for ya. Lateral Gas Ports on the Piston to Compliment. offsetting the Big end of the Rod is Tricky, if Ya want to Reduce the Rod Angle and or have a more favorable Rod-Stroke Ratio. Stuff a +.125 Longer Rod in there, Straighten out the Rod Angle, Easier on the Cylinder Wall and Piston Skirts, Piston is More Stable thru its Entire Stroke keeping the Rings Square resulting in Superior Ring Seal. Also Adding the Piston now has a longer TDC and BDC Dwell Time and a Custom Cam Specs Wold have to consider this. And another With a +.125 Rod LOOSE the Second Ring pack, Knock 28 or more Grams off the Piston. Hera ya go. lost Second Ring Pack. Lateral Gas Ports, Shot Peen Stress Relieved. Stuff a long enough Rod in there and all ya need for a piston is a Ring Holder. Ya can't tell from the pic its running a .5mm offset on the Pin.
|
|
|
Post by pistonguy on Dec 18, 2015 11:50:48 GMT -5
www.polydyn.comFrom experience. These Folks for the Coatings. Ive had some. lets say Bake the Heat Treat Right out of Pistons from the Process. Although I currently enjoy some Skirt Coatings there not really what the marketers write it up as.
|
|
|
Post by pistonguy on Dec 18, 2015 11:54:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by pistonguy on Dec 18, 2015 12:02:48 GMT -5
Hers a couple Ex. for ideas. Expansion or Volume gained . First is a Pro-Circuit then a FMF
|
|
|
Post by chewbaca on Oct 23, 2017 9:48:13 GMT -5
Big sigh 😏 Rich guy toys Kicks a rock 😒
|
|
|
Post by cyborg55 on Oct 23, 2017 22:18:54 GMT -5
Whew that’s some kinda build,,you sure you wanna go thru all that?,, I smell 5 g’s easy,,,,then trans and brakes, chassis work,,,another 2g’s,,,all that to get eaten alive by a $3000-3500 fz6 yam off craigslist
|
|