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Post by SylvreKat on Jan 27, 2015 0:05:22 GMT -5
My wife even decided she doesn't like it either. Well then, damage away! I was just thinking about that you said your wife actually liked the bird. I didn't want the duck tape messing that up. But if she doesn't like it either now, who cares? Krylon that bad chicken! Gee, Larry wields a pretty bad spray can.... (uh, "bad" being crazy good in regards to Larry, but being just bad in regards to the chicken) (all clear as mud now?) Still like the purple though. I think try it with the beak and the creepy eyes covered, and the fender back on. See if the purple doesn't grow on you (or at least Missus). Maybe you can make it look less like feathers, and more like purple flames. Still wondering why someone would spend what had to be LOTS of money to get a chicken-bird painted on their scoot. >'Kat |
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Post by scootdude on Jan 27, 2015 0:48:57 GMT -5
My wife even decided she doesn't like it either. Still wondering why someone would spend what had to be LOTS of money to get a chicken-bird painted on their scoot. |
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Post by SylvreKat on Jan 27, 2015 8:33:03 GMT -5
See what I mean, dude? WHY, lady, WHY?? Did her parrot appreciate it? I feel zero desire to have my scoot painted like my old dog. Esp not for that much money. You are SUCH a rebel, dude. Ruining this poor lady's artistic vision/dream/uh..... like that. Sigh. Whatever shall we do with you, hm?  Wait a minute. Her parrot had a green beak? >'Kat |
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Post by scootdude on Jan 27, 2015 11:13:35 GMT -5
Wait a minute. Her parrot had a green beak? |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 27, 2015 22:41:34 GMT -5
Scootdude,
Ah, the saga of the whitewall... First, It's TRUE, nobody currently makes a 140/70/12 whitewall for the GV rear. Next, I'm running a Shinko 120/70/12 whitewall on the front and I love it! P-rated, smooth, shimmy-free and a great tire. Now, for the rear... I'm sure Shinko's 130 "rear" whitewall would be fine, but it IS noticeably smaller in diameter than the 140. I almost went with one, but I believe it would cut at least 3 mph off my top-speed, and a few mpg off my GREAT, near 100 mpg gas mileage. And, it just "looks too small" to my eye...So, my dealer actually was nice enough to contact Shinko, and inquire WHAT tire would be the best-handling matchup in a tire for me to paint a whitewall on. Cheesh, what a swell dealer! And Shinko recommended the P-rated Michelin "Power Pure" tire for the rear. I believe the Shinko is a bias-ply tire, and the Michelin is a radial, but... After nearly a thousand miles (and I ride fairly hard and fast) running the Michelin rear, and Shinko front, I must agree! A truly FINE combination!Not such great news on the painted whitewall though... I did a "monumental" test-post on the process, and can not really recommend painting a whitewall. The main problem is painting a NEW tire. Good tires "seep" brown "schmoots" consisting of dyes, mold-release, etc. for many years. That stuff turns the painted whitewall tan, brown, or makes it just flake off even when the tire is well-prepared. Short story is, I first tried "Dr. Whitewall" which has a good rep among the rat-rod guys. NO amount of prepping the tire worked, and the Dr. Whitewall paint flaked off in a few days. From there, I tried every recommendation from classic car sites: Krylon, Krylon for rubber, Rustoleum, Latex exterior house paint, even white exterior caulk. ALL flaked off in a week. I finally tried "Motor City Whitewall" paint. THAT is far and away THE BEST. It covers, and it STAYS PUT. However, it still discolors badly, requiring re-painting several times a season. Actually more than "discoloring" it "thins" out, becoming a tad transparent. It also shows a lot of brushstrokes, but those are barely noticeable. I can recommend the Motor City paint SO LONG AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT WILL NOT BE SNOW WHITE, and WILL REQUIRE RE-COATING AT LEAST ONCE PER SEASON. Here is the painted whitewall a month after painting...   Now THIS sounds CRUDE, but it works well... I keep the scooter "reasonably clean"... and let the front factory whitewall get just a tad "soiled" from brake dust and road dirt. Not FILTHY, but just slightly "off-white"... This makes BOTH tires nearly the exact-same pale "ivory" color, and the visual effect is quite presentable. Crude, but it works quite well! The Michelin tire has a handy molded-in rib just outside the rim making it easy to brush-paint the inside edge of the whitewall. The outside edge of the sidewall has a sharp edge which I just brush the paint out to, not worrying about slopping a little over the edge onto the tread. Next day, I take a drill with a sanding disk and gently trim the paint off the tread, leaving a perfect edge... NO masking, NO major hassle... I can apply a fresh coat to both sides in about a half-hour when the tire gets TOO shabby... One quirk of the Motor City paint is that it MUST cure a full 24 hours before riding, and the initial coats need to be at least 3 coats with a full day of curing in between.
I really went "the extra mile" attempting to get a rear whitewall with paint. On a new tire, even after cleaning over and over with lacquer-thinner and bleach, then light sanding, the ONLY paint that stayed put was MOTOR CITY WHITEWALL paint. NOTHING else worked at all... If you don't mind losing a few mph top speed (but GAINING a little acceleration) and losing a shy half-inch of ground-clearance... and aiming the headlight even a little higher... Oh, yeah, that pesky headlight... I'd go with the Shinkos at both ends... 130/70/12 rear, and 120/70/12 front. I've never heard of a problem with Shinkos at all. Great tires!
If you don't mind screwing around some to keep a painted whitewall looking somewhat presentable, I'd highly recommend the Michelin Power Pure 140/70/12 on the rear, because of it's great handling, and ease of painting the whitewall on. One last GREAT discovery I found... If your rear valve-stem is like mine, it's VERY hard to air the tire except with a small, right-angle hose-fitting. And those are not common on gas-station air hoses around here. THIS little device, made for performance-bicycles allows you to use a straight-on air-hose (or most any other) to fill that pesky rear tire with the brake disk in the way... You ONLY install it to air the tire, then remove it. I purposely "overinflate" a little, then, remove the ZERO-LOSS doodad, and deflate to proper inflation. Amazingly, the thing really DOES not lose any air when removing it...  upload picsBoth Motor City Whitewall paint and this inflation device are available sporadically on eBay. Not cheap, but they do the job... As a side note, most painted whitewalls seem to be on rat-rods, applied to OLD, rotted, dried-out tires. THOSE tires will seemingly accept most ANY paint with few problems... But you would not want THOSE tires on a scooter... LOLOLOL! New tires do NOT like paint. It takes a lot of patience, but I wanted them on my "old-school" ride badly enough to screw around with them... At least, I can save you MONTHS of failed experimentation... I REALLY wanted whitewalls badly on the old Minnie Mouse...Just me... Hope this helps, I've about tried EVERYTHING to have a full-diameter rear tire with a whitewall... So, Shinko; would you PLEASE make a 140 version of your 130 whitewall???
Leo (ridin' white n' ratty in Texas)
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Post by scootdude on Jan 29, 2015 2:57:00 GMT -5
OMG! I had no idea you had to go through all that just to get a whitewall tire on the rear of your bike!! After hearing all that, I think I'm satisfied to stick with plain old black. My bike isn't a beauty queen anyway. I've duct taped over all the ugly, unmanly purple feathers, green beak, and stupid chicken eyes. I don't have any desire at this point to make my bike pretty. I only paid $1500 for it and by the time I get done with it there will be no value left to it. So I'm not concerned with the paint. Right now my only concern is that it be reliable to get me back and forth to work. My work is 21 miles one way, so I really need the bike to be robust and reliable. I just changed the front brake pads, and I've inspected every inch of the radiator and cooling system lines to be sure she's ready for the 115 degree summer temperatures of Phoenix.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 29, 2015 14:57:12 GMT -5
OMG! I had no idea you had to go through all that just to get a whitewall tire on the rear of your bike!! After hearing all that, I think I'm satisfied to stick with plain old black. My bike isn't a beauty queen anyway. I've duct taped over all the ugly, unmanly purple feathers, green beak, and stupid chicken eyes. I don't have any desire at this point to make my bike pretty. I only paid $1500 for it and by the time I get done with it there will be no value left to it. So I'm not concerned with the paint. Right now my only concern is that it be reliable to get me back and forth to work. My work is 21 miles one way, so I really need the bike to be robust and reliable. I just changed the front brake pads, and I've inspected every inch of the radiator and cooling system lines to be sure she's ready for the 115 degree summer temperatures of Phoenix. Scootdude,
Yeah, After many months of irritation and totally wasted time, I finally ended up with a tire paint I can "live with" but it's far from perfect. Unless you REALLY just GOTTA have a whitewall, I'd go with a matched pair of good P-rated regular tires. I got WAY too involved with wanting wide whites, and with a factory front whitewall already installed, I just kept at it... LOL! I still love the look, especially on a white scooter. Now that I have it sort of "handled" I can live with seasonal re-paints but I truly can't recommend the painted whitewalls unless you're willing to do some serious "messing" with them.
I'm very impressed with my Shinko (same tire is available in a blackwall too) AND my Michelin Power Pure. I've always had good service from Michelin, Pirelli, Dunlop and such. I think Pirelli even makes a white-letter "billboard" tire.
I noticed one member had bad results with a Shinko, having the tread separate at 1,000 miles. I suppose any tire can be a "lemon" but that's the first time I've heard a bad report on a Shinko. He was going with Kenda tires. My past experience with Kendas is mixed. My old 150 had Kendas from the factory and they were superb for 6 years. My Kymco had new J-rated Kendas on it, but I didn't like the way they handled on the 250. They felt extremely "hard" tending to skid quite easily, both sideways, and, when stopping hard, and they tended to "shudder" when decelerating (even when riding below their 62 mph rating). All that went away with the installation of the P-rated Michelin and Shinko tires.
Whatever tires you go with, so long as they're name-brand and P-rated, you'll probably be pleased with them. Tires have come a LONG way since I started riding... A LONG way!
Ride safe!
Leo
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Post by bandito2 on Jan 30, 2015 2:27:42 GMT -5
140/70-12? You want reliability? I use 145/70R12 car tires on my Honda Reflex 250 scooters. I've used other sizes too, but the 145/70R12 is closest to the stock scooter size as far as car tires go for that bike. And it does not negatively affect the ABS brakes. The first one I used I changed out after 35,000 miles... No, that was not a not a typo. Thirty Five Thousand Miles, and it could have gone at least a few thousand miles more but I wanted to try another size car tire.
It's not nearly as crazy as it sounds initially, but it does handle a little differently of course though it is easy enough to adapt to. In the 6 1/2 years I've been doing this, there have been at least 33 other folks with a Honda Reflex or Big Ruckus scooter (that I know of, but there may actually be more... I'm sure) that have gone and put a car tire on the rear of their scooter.... Several wished they had known about doing it a long time ago. Most have said they'll never put another scooter tire on the rear again.
BTW, this is only for the rear.... the front needs the rounded profile of a stock bike tire on the front. It is worth considering, but you still might want to do some homework and research it to find out more about it before you decide.
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Post by scootdude on Jan 30, 2015 15:56:37 GMT -5
140/70-12? You want reliability? I use 145/70R12 car tires on my Honda Reflex 250 scooters. I've used other sizes too, but the 145/70R12 is closest to the stock scooter size as far as car tires go for that bike. And it does not negatively affect the ABS brakes. The first one I used I changed out after 35,000 miles... No, that was not a not a typo. Thirty Five Thousand Miles, and it could have gone at least a few thousand miles more but I wanted to try another size car tire. It's not nearly as crazy as it sounds initially, but it does handle a little differently of course though it is easy enough to adapt to. In the 6 1/2 years I've been doing this, there have been at least 33 other folks with a Honda Reflex or Big Ruckus scooter (that I know of, but there may actually be more... I'm sure) that have gone and put a car tire on the rear of their scooter.... Several wished they had known about doing it a long time ago. Most have said they'll never put another scooter tire on the rear again. BTW, this is only for the rear.... the front needs the rounded profile of a stock bike tire on the front. It is worth considering, but you still might want to do some homework and research it to find out more about it before you decide.
Thanks!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 30, 2015 16:03:07 GMT -5
140/70-12? You want reliability? I use 145/70R12 car tires on my Honda Reflex 250 scooters. I've used other sizes too, but the 145/70R12 is closest to the stock scooter size as far as car tires go for that bike. And it does not negatively affect the ABS brakes. The first one I used I changed out after 35,000 miles... No, that was not a not a typo. Thirty Five Thousand Miles, and it could have gone at least a few thousand miles more but I wanted to try another size car tire. It's not nearly as crazy as it sounds initially, but it does handle a little differently of course though it is easy enough to adapt to. In the 6 1/2 years I've been doing this, there have been at least 33 other folks with a Honda Reflex or Big Ruckus scooter (that I know of, but there may actually be more... I'm sure) that have gone and put a car tire on the rear of their scooter.... Several wished they had known about doing it a long time ago. Most have said they'll never put another scooter tire on the rear again. BTW, this is only for the rear.... the front needs the rounded profile of a stock bike tire on the front. It is worth considering, but you still might want to do some homework and research it to find out more about it before you decide.
GREAT POST!
I had forgotten about CAR tires... Being an old-school Harley guy, we regularly used 16" truck tires on our old Hogs... Especially on the rear. Harley dressers had 16" auto-style rims, but back then, 15" was the biggest car tires you could find. Had to use truck tires, and yup, they'd last forever!
If you can find an affordable 12" car tire that will fit and clear (the more square-shoulder will be a little wide on some scooters) you'll be WAY ahead of the curve. On a 400 pound SCOOTER, the CAR tire suffers very little stress!
The flat-tread, square-shoulder car tire does take a little getting used to (especially "up on the edge" cornering on slippery pavement...) but they work fine. We found the more cornering we did, the more the shoulder of the truck tire rounded off, and the better the handling got... There's a ton of rubber on those edges, so I doubt you would ever thin them out too much from riding.
Thanks for the heads-up!
Have a bone on the Old Chopper Guy!
Leo in Texas
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Post by bandito2 on Jan 31, 2015 0:04:38 GMT -5
The thing is, it might have been that way with the bias ply tires, but radial tires behave a little differently. It doesn't actually ride on a narrow edge of the tire shoulder per se, but rather some of the tread is flexed and lying flat onto the pavement. They just won't ever get over onto the sidewall..... if they did then you'd already be well into a crash. But that is pretty far over and the outcome would be the same even if a bike tire were on it at the time. In a turn on a bike with a car tire on the rear, the contact patch is a bit like a half moon shape and in a steep turn it will be more elongated. Car tires grip better on wet pavement because of the softer rubber compound. Motorcycle tire compounds are typically harder though racing tires for motorcycles approach the Durometer hardness numbers of car tires. (which are softer)
"But softer rubber wears faster right?" Well normally yes, but consider the weight that a scooter imposes on a car tire as opposed to what weight and dynamics that a car imposes on a tire. However, even then, a car tire lasts longer on a car than a bike tire lasts on a bike... "But if a bike has harder rubber to make it last longer, then why do they wear out so fast?" This is heading toward that question some skeptics pose. "Why don't motorcycle tire manufacturers make a decent tire to last; don't they do that just because they have us over a barrel and just want to charge us so much for tires that wear out so fast because they can?"
Nope. Car tire manufacturers try to make the best tires they can for cars and motorcycle tire manufacturers try to make the best tires they can for bikes. It's all in how the tires are designed and made and how they are used that determines almost completely how long and well they wear.
A car tire, even with a softer, stickier compound lasts longer because all the load and wear is spread relatively evenly across the FULL width of the tread for most of its life. But, a motorcycle tire can have only about 1/4 to 1/3 of its total available tread down on the pavement at any one time, That is because the tread face is in an arc. (rounded profile) And since most of the time a bike is upright when riding, the center line of the tire tends to wear first and most. And so they often end up a bit squarish with unused tread at the outer edges toward the sidewalls. A "squared off" well worn bike tire begins to behave much like a car tire does handling wise. A bit uncomfortable maybe, but certainly manageable. If the motorcycle tire manufacturers could make a motorcycle tire that could last as long as a car tire, then I think they would.....but it would look an awful lot like a car tire.... There really is no other way to make a motorcycle tire last longer except by making the rubber even harder for longer wear, but then the trade-off is grip. It is that rounded profile of motorcycle/scooter tires that helps maintain a relatively consistent contact patch shape that makes their handling so smooth, consistent and predictable in and out of turns, but it is also the thing that causes them to wear out so fast.
Sorry, once I get started on this car tire thing it's hard to stop. I wrote several pieces that used responses that I had posted on other forums once upon a time ago. Of course the subject of contention was using car tires on bikes. I think the first one was titled something like "Car tire use on scooters: In defense of an unconventional idea" I think it was in that one that I admitted that even I was wrong once about the differences in rubber compound hardness between car tires and motorcycle tires. That was way back when I first started using car tires on my scooters and was still learning.
Oh there's plenty more I could say about using car tires but not in this thread.
Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread... but it happens sometimes because one thing is related and relevant and things can drift off a bit........
Anyway, I looked to see if I could find WW tires that might fit the OPs scoot even from places that sell tires for vintage vehicles.... other sites too, but no such luck.... Nothing that I could find smaller than 185 width tires for 13" rims... I did find some 10" car tires that >might< fit on a Honda Helix (boy would I like to try that out!!!) but alas, not in whitewall either.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 31, 2015 18:32:47 GMT -5
Ah, I agree with what SCOOTDUDE said... 
Leo (likin' it stout n' tasty too) in Texas |
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Post by shalomdawg on Jan 31, 2015 20:16:56 GMT -5
howdy, yup, i agree with the hijacked thread. a good stout-and-tasty as close to where it was brewed as humanly possible. like the same room----- or the same town. what i wouldn't give
lotsa miles and smiles to ya
ken
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Post by rockynv on Feb 1, 2015 7:18:46 GMT -5
Note that when putting different sized tires on a bike you need to understand that you could end up introducing head shake that during fast braking or an accident avoidance maneuver such as a sudden swerve could throw you off the bike.
If you ride mainly on chip roads where there is little rain the Shinko's may suit you well however they tend to last longer due to harder rubber formulations that may not grip as well on smooth roads especially when they are wet. Many of their tread patterns are not of their own design but knockoffs of Bridgstone or Dunlops using rubber formulations and substructure quite different from what the tread pattern was designed for so results may vary.
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