|
Post by rcq92130 on Oct 26, 2014 20:03:43 GMT -5
The emissions system on this 150 GY6 vanished. Now, the vent off the valve cover is a hose that goes back & up to the high point under the seat, then down to above the muffler, then back up & toward the front where there is a fuel filter that is open to air.
Didn't notice it before, but there is a LOT of smoke coming out in a constant stream from the fuel filter --- and splatterings of oil (and WATER, I think !!!). Maybe this was there all along and I just didn't notice ... but it seems very, very "not normal". Scooter seems to be running very well otherwise ...
Brand new cylinder head, so not likely there is valve leakage. Maybe rings? Only 400 miles on the BBK jug, and did a semi-easy break-in. But maybe rings failed anyway.
Any thoughts anyone?
Video of smoke:
Video of splatterings:
|
|
|
Post by xyshannen on Oct 26, 2014 22:44:20 GMT -5
Smoke should linger...from the video I would say that's vapor. It doesn't seem to linger, but then again it's kinda hard to tell.
A certain amount of oil from that line is normal. and looking at what your getting that looks like it has more water in it then oil.
Check your oil just to be sure you don't have water in the crank case. If water somehow gets in the crank case and mixes with the oil, the oil will look milky.
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Oct 27, 2014 4:57:11 GMT -5
looks like blow by , if the engine is running well let it slide . That is a tell tale sign that a top end rebuild is nearing .
John
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Oct 27, 2014 7:53:39 GMT -5
Hi John
Thing is - zero miles on new head with new valves, springs, etc.
Also - nothing at all odd in exhaust out the end of the muffler (no smoke, etc.). Wouldn't I see something if it was rings?
|
|
|
Post by xyshannen on Oct 27, 2014 8:38:28 GMT -5
rcq92130 How did you break this top end in? If you ran it for short periods in cold weather you could have created condensation in the valve cover. Even running mine, it spits a lil water from that hose when it first fires up. By not allowing the motor to run long enough to evaporate this condensation, it could have built up.. And now it's actually blowing steam and water from the vent. Put the bike up on the stand, point a fan at the cooling fan on the stator and adjust the idle screw to bring the motor up to around 3k rpms. Now let it run until it burns off that water. Worse case is you loose the top end. If that is really smoke coming out of that vent, it's gone anyways. Still double check your oil to ensure water isn't in the crank case. Edit: I was just wondering...when you rebuilt your top end, did you take a paper towel and dowse it in oil then wipe out your cylinder jug? There is usually a good bit of machining dust left on the surface of a new cylinder. Mine took 5 wipes with fresh paper towels before it was clean. I was actually surprised at just how much I removed. The first couple of wipes made my paper towel absolutely filthy. If you don't do this, that dust can wipe out your rings before the motor is even broken in.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Oct 27, 2014 13:15:40 GMT -5
No, I did NOT wipe down the jug before installing it. Checked compression yesterday --- 135 is not fabulous for a new piston/jug/head assembly, but not out of the norm either (and my reading might be low since i don't have a tester that will screw into the small plug hole - had to use the one with a rubber bulb on the end that you just push against the spark plug hole .... with of course chance for leakage).
Will change the oil and see if there is any water in it. Time to switch over to synthetic anyway ...
|
|
|
Post by xyshannen on Oct 27, 2014 13:26:01 GMT -5
Synthetic in our motors isn't a good idea. From what I understand the heat of an air cooled engine breaks synthetic oil down.
Ya I hope your reading is low because of the way you had to test it. A stock motor should read around 150, Ours should be higher. I haven't tested mine yet because my gauge is MIA, so I have to wait until I can order a new one.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Oct 27, 2014 16:15:08 GMT -5
Well, kind of have an answer.
Did another compression test - this time squirting a little oil in first. Gained 30 to 40 psi.
So, ordered another jug & piston - not knowing if it's the rings or the cylinder walls, and not willing to tear the thing down just to find out.
Two or three days and then back at the thing. Getting repetitive! Worst thing is I'll have to go thru break in AGAIN! Argggggggggggggggg !!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by hillbillybob on Oct 27, 2014 18:33:14 GMT -5
You are not going to break in an engine in 400 miles. My scooter took about 2000 miles to fully breakin. I know this because it wasn't until the 2500 mile oil change, that the filter screen came out absolutely clean and free on any tiny bits of anything. The 5 oil changes prior to that one, all had a little crap caught by the screen.
Your profile doesn't include your location.....but as mentioned above, crankcase gases do contain a lot more condensation as the outside air temps drop....this could be part of your problem, also, as rpm's go higher, blow by gases increase.
I have a catch can installed in my vent hose, so I can monitor amount and contents of gases being expelled. Last time removed for empting, it contained .45 ounces, after 1200 miles. Three or four drops of oil, and a lot of watery stuff.....looked a lot like yours. That was at 3750 miles, now at 5650, and time to check it again.
Might suggest easy rather than semi-easy first few hundred miles, and no synthetics, just a name brand 10w/40 or my choice, a 15w/40. This is all just an old fart's opinion, but I bought my first new engine in 1965.....I own and maintain 10 engines at the present time, gas and diesel.....none of which have any issues..... hillbillybob
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Oct 27, 2014 19:13:49 GMT -5
I like your name Hillbillybob !!!!!!
Welcome to the forum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John
|
|
|
Post by xyshannen on Oct 27, 2014 19:40:12 GMT -5
rcq92130 Just an FYI, maybe there is an old mechanic trick I don't know about, to tell if your rings are gone or not, but if you pull the jug off of your piston, scrap the rings. They will never seat properly again. Good thing these things are relatively cheap. For your break in, a trick I learned wile breaking mine in is to do like I posted earlier. Put your scoot up on it's center stand, point a fan at your cooling fan, and adjust the idle to 3k RPMS, let it run for about an hour wile bliping the throttle every so often. Every time the rings seat better your RPMS will go up and you will have to readjust the throttle screw. Once your done, you should be broken in enough to drive it and not have to baby it. Just avoid running it WOT for long stretches. I did mine like this and it worked freakin awesome.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Oct 27, 2014 20:21:24 GMT -5
HBob -
About that catch can.
My first thought was to put in a crankcase vent (in the dipstick hole) leading to a can that would let the oil go back into the case at night/when off. But that was treating the symptom, not the problem. Expect the new piston liner/piston/rings will greatly reduce or nearly eliminate blowby, but still a can might make sense.
My question is, though : what about venting the can back into the intake manifold? I have only one nipple there, but am not using it since I have an electric pump and a pumper carb (so no vacuum lines needed). Another thought is to add a nipple to the intake duct (upstream of the carb) to preserve fuel/gas mixture ... but then any oil in the fumes might gunk up the carb butterfly, etc.
Your thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Oct 27, 2014 20:25:22 GMT -5
Yeah, what I ordered is a new jug, piston, rings, gudgeon pin. Whole thing (from Taiwan) is only $70, so it didn't make sense to see if new rings would solve it, or if maybe the liner was gouged, etc
RE: break in: Most seem to think the main commandment is to vary throttle at first. So wen the current (now gone bad) BBK was first in I spent a while going up and down local hills, over and over .... till I became worried someone would call the locals on me. Still something went bad obviously.
|
|
|
Post by xyshannen on Oct 28, 2014 8:52:47 GMT -5
That's why wile it's on the stand, you have to sit there and play with the throttle. You don't want to just set it at 3K and call it a day. I even would idle it down from time to time.
For what it's worth, as you know, I buggered my oil rings wile installing my piston the first time round. Those dang oil rings are flimsy as all get out and like to pop out of that almost to small oil ring groove one the piston.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Oct 28, 2014 13:38:12 GMT -5
In trying to figure out why this BBK failed so fast, I wondering if i installed the piston "upside down", causing it to wobble and damage the liner. Here is a photo of the piston i used. On the top it has the size ("60") stamped and an arrow pointing to one of the valve idnents. I htought the arrow should be pointing to the INTAKE side, and installed it with the arrow facing "up". Maybe that's wrong. Anyone know???
|
|