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Post by oldchopperguy on May 15, 2014 2:10:00 GMT -5
OK scooters and scooterettes...
My thread on the painted whitewall is getting L-O-N-G, so I'm doing an "update" thread for those who STILL want to mess with such things... LOL!
To refresh the message, I replaced the tires on my Kymco Grandvista 250 with 92 mph "P-rated" tires, AND wanted whitewalls to go with the vintage styling of old "Minnie Mouse". I found a front tire (120-70-12) from Shinko, but NOBODY seems to make a (140-70-12) rear tire in a whitewall. I guess not even VESPAS use THAT size... LOL!
I originally painted the rear whitewalls with "Dr. Whitewall" latex paint, with NO success at all. The latex will not adhere to the NEW tire, no matter how well-prepped, due to mold-release, oils and whatever other stuff NEW tires secrete. In fairness, the product states that the tire MUST be severely ground down to fresh rubber... Which I did NOT want to do on a brand-new (and somewhat "pricey") Michelin...
So, after completely removing the old Dr. Whitewall paint (with a spray-wash wand and $5 in quarters...) I thoroughly cleaned the tire with mineral spirits, masked and spray-painted the whitewalls with RUSTOLEUM white plastic primer on one side, and KRYLON white plastic primer on the other as a comparison. For the record, BOTH paints go on FABULOUSLY, covering completely in 2 passes, and no tendency to run. For anyone painting their scooter (or anything plastic) with ENAMEL, THIS stuff IS the primer to use!!! Either brand.
I let them both cure for 5 days, then took a ride down the highway at 70+ mph, getting the tires plenty hot. BOTH sides exhibited some very MINOR cracking, and peeling. HOWEVER, the edges of the peel were still durable, and would not crack further even when dug with a knife.
I then spot-cleaned the peeled areas and touched them up with a simple cardboard mask and the same spray-can paint. I've now ridden nearly 200 miles with NO further problems!!! Whoopee!
There really IS a MAJOR problem painting over a new tire. The white paint now also shows a light-brown mottle, where the new-tire oils have been absorbed into the paint. BUT... it looks like the stuff is trapped there, the PRIMER did its job, and the paint is sticking to the tire OK.
My best guess is that some minor cracking/peeling may still show up with extended use, and can be fixed in minutes like I did before. Once it's all staying white, and is fully "baked" in the sun, I am almost sure a final coat over the paint will cover the slight brown mottle, making a near-perfect simulation of a factory whitewall, factory-lettering and all.
Probably, the paint will always require minor touchup each season, but with a mask, it's only a few minutes' work, and well-worth it.
Are "painted" whitewalls for everyone? I don't think so... LOL But if like me, you REALLY want a whitewall on a tire size that does not come in white (particularly, you Ruckus/skelly build riders with FAT tires...) it MAY be worth the effort. I emphasize MAY be... I'll say that you must REALLY want them, to justify the time and effort involved, but it's looking like the white plastic primers will do the job with enough patience, attention, and "TLC".
As the season progresses, I'll update information as to how the paint stands up to extended riding. The "look" is absolutely outstanding, completely altering the cosmetics of the old scooter. If it can be maintained with only minor periodic touchup, I'll be happy. If it all peels off in a month or so, I'll be very disappointed. Either way, I'll update... I'll also post pix of the peel, and the brown stains, AND the finished coat in a while, after all the paint is well-cooked...
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One final IMPORTANT note about the tires... "Minnie Mouse" came with brand-new 62 mph "J-rated" Kenda tires. They were extremely hard, with a very, VERY harsh ride. They had a slight "chatter" when decelerating from 60, or even from 35 mph. The "chatter" would continue all the way down to "walking speed". Headlights would BOUNCE, teeth would RATTLE and local squirrels salivated, hoping to harvest FALLING NUTS... LOL! They also would lock up and slide on dry pavement under hard braking. Absolutely "useable" but definitely not "ideal".
The Shinko street-tread tire on the front, and the Michelin Power Pure performance-tread tire on the rear seem to be a perfect match, as my dealer's inquiries indicated. The chatter is GONE, the ride is downright "cushy" and actually feels like larger-diameter tires (much like the 17-inchers on the SWEET little Kymco People 200 "loaner" my dealer gave me to use during the tire changeover). Braking is sure and straight, without skidding.
I now find myself relaxing, slumping back into the lumbar seat support, getting my smiling puss behind that great, factory GIVI windshield... and rolling on the throttle right up to 70 mph+, making fast surface streets, and slow-lane freeway riding as relaxing and enjoyable as it might be on a large motorcycle. HONESTLY, "relaxing" and "70 mph on a scooter" are NOT an "oxymoron"... BOTH are ABSOLUTELY possible on old Minnie Mouse, with her new runnin' shoes on!
And, cramped traffic, parking lots and city maneuvering is still as snappy and nimble as on the old Chinese 150. Talk about "the BEST of BOTH worlds..." I guess THIS is what the shorty-wheelbase, light-touring-scooter is all about! I could happily ride this one until I'm too old to remember where it's parked... If Minnie (or I) last that long!
I had Kenda tires on my old 150, the whole six years I rode it, and they were great on that light, 230-pound scoot, at 55 mph or less. They just didn't work out well on the 360-pound, 75 mph Kymco. That being said, if YOUR ride is not handling as you'd like it to, different tires might well make a whole lot of difference! Worth a try anyway! Cheaper than a new scoot... LOL!
I'll keep posting on the tires as the season progresses...
Ride safe,
Leo (ridin' REAL comfy) in Texas |
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Post by spandi on May 15, 2014 10:02:03 GMT -5
Hey Leo, I was wondering how the plastic paint was holding up. If I recall, the guy with the french car had minor cracking and brown spots (at first) but nothing time and a touch-up couldn't handle. Glad to hear it's working out. (keep us posted)  |
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Post by rockvegas on May 15, 2014 10:43:17 GMT -5
Not to derail your post or your efforts (and I'm new here) but has anyone ever used Portawalls? They have them in 10" for $48. I'm assuming they're sold for cars at that size so a 'set' would be enough for two bikes.
I was into VW's a long time ago and they were the shiz for putting whitewalls on your Beetle.
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Post by earlylight160 on May 15, 2014 16:00:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the great documentation of your whitewall project. 
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Post by SylvreKat on May 15, 2014 21:45:47 GMT -5
So which do you think is doing better, the Rustoleum or the Krylon?
Not that I'm going whitewall, but I'm just curious.
>'Kat
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 16, 2014 11:32:07 GMT -5
Not to derail your post or your efforts (and I'm new here) but has anyone ever used Portawalls? They have them in 10" for $48. I'm assuming they're sold for cars at that size so a 'set' would be enough for two bikes. I was into VW's a long time ago and they were the shiz for putting whitewalls on your Beetle.
Welcome to the site! And, yes... I'm from the old-school 1950's "Porta-Wall" generation... I used them in the sixties, but had DISMAL results. Today's versions are probably better (although photos of "rat rods" with them don't back that up... LOL!). My experience with them included them "curling" away from the tire at the outer edge, after spinning out like a Frisbee at speed. They would eventually STAY away from the tire, and curl like bacon at their yellowing edges. They also were strictly for tube-type tires, offering TOO much possibility for rim-leaks. Just not good at all. They were used more on the early show-cars, where they could be glued to the tires at the Porta-Wall edges, and the cars never driven. In theory, they are a great idea, but in actuality, they didn't work out at all for me, or my pals 50 years ago... Many thanks for the idea though! Sincerely, Leo in Texas |
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 16, 2014 12:10:41 GMT -5
So which do you think is doing better, the Rustoleum or the Krylon? Not that I'm going whitewall, but I'm just curious. >'Kat
Kat,
With 200 miles (with intentional high-speed, hard acceleration and braking to flex the tire as much as possible) the KRYLON definitely has the advantage! Here is a picture of the RUSTOLEUM side, showing the peeled and cracked area... (The REST of the sidewall is still holding up fine.) I didn't take pix of the Krylon, since it looks identical, but without the peeling... The weird bright-white patterns in the picture are just sun shining through a lattice fence.
While it looks AWFUL, it's only a small area... and, unlike other paints I tried, the edges of the peel DO stay STUCK to the tire, as do the other "checked" areas. What I've done with these areas, is wipe them down with mineral-spirits, which actually melts the paint, smoothing out the edges and removing the checking and cracking. Then, I can easily touch up with a cardboard mask and the spray can.
This picture also shows the somewhat "yellowed" or brownish color which (hopefully...) appears to be well-trapped in the primer, and should cover over OK with fresh paint.
The KRYLON side has the EXACT same color and appearance, BUT... NO peeling so far (save for one small area which only peeled the top layer, not exposing the black rubber). With this in mind, I believe I'll ride it "as-is" for a few weeks, and see if I can finally stop the cracking on the RUSTOLEUM side with continual touchups. If not, AND if the KRYLON side continues to remain intact, I'll wipe down the Rustoleum side and lightly sand it, then re-coat both sides with a fresh coat of KRYLON. If THAT process works, but still yellows, I'll then re-coat both sides with white LATEX over the primer, which being water-based, should stick OK to the primer, and not absorb the oil-based polluting colors.
For the record, the peeled RUSTOLEUM feels almost like broken eggshells. It's VERY brittle... Explaining why it tends to check and crack worse. In defense of it though, it tends to remain on the tire pretty well, even with tiny cracks.
The KRYLON however, seems to be more flexible, and most likely will last better with less touchup.
Both paints go on AMAZINGLY well, covering the black completely in two light coats, with little tendency to run. BOTH paints are thick, heavy and REALLY go on beautifully, and DO seem to stick to surfaces which are hard to get paint to stick to... making them great candidates for priming any "questionable" surface (like SCOOTER PLASTICS maybe?) in preparation for finish-painting. HOWEVER, remember this is ENAMEL, so the finish paint must be enamel... NO lacquer over this primer.
So... Why go to all the trouble to paint a whitewall...? Well... Because nobody makes a factory whitewall my size... See... SIZE really DOES matter! LOL! Probably NOT the best rationale, but doggone, I surely do love the "look". And so do other riders! Absolutely nothing can enhance the appearance of a vehicle more than noticeably-different wheels and/or tires.
I'm well-aware that the KRYLON may exhibit the same problems as the RUSTOLEUM over the miles, but so far it's the best of the two. Mold-release and manufacturing oils in NEW tires make it VERY difficult for ANY paint to properly adhere to them. However, these new "wonder-primers" for PLASTICS seem to offer the best possibility for success so far, but they will still require fine-tuning and constant touchup to maintain the finish.
I'll post any new "discoveries" to the project!
Ride safe,
Leo in Texas |
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Post by spandi on May 16, 2014 16:53:00 GMT -5
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 17, 2014 2:08:21 GMT -5
Spandi,
Again, GREAT info! On my tire, the Krylon is definitely working BETTER than the Rustoleum. No major cracking at all. I do think however that it will be necessary to use a finish-coat of white over the primer, as it does not stay "white"... The old, yellowish appearance would be PERFECT as-is on a rat bike or car! I think I'll end up cleaning off most of the Rustoleum, and giving both sides a good coating of Krylon primer, then ride a few weeks and if all is well, finish off with a final coat of regular white Krylon for plastic. I think the primer will seal the tire, and allow a regular finish coat of paint to be the final finish. We'll see!Tonight I got on my back and close up to the Krylon side to check the gearbox oil. The tire looks great except for the yellow (which is NOT terrible, but not as white as I'd like...). One COULD paint the sidewall any color in theory, once the primer sets up. Bright-\yellow, red, blue or green sidewalls could be neat! Checking the gear oil was a good reminder to check everything now and then! It was down some, but clean. So I topped it off, and could actually FEEL a slight difference in smoothness! I'll keep posting on any results I obtain with the whitewalls... So far, the Krylon has the definite advantage!Ride safe,Leo
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Post by wheelbender6 on May 18, 2014 8:07:05 GMT -5
Will-i-am had a good idea on his c-2 corvette. He wanted the the period appearance of whitewalls and the cornering performance of a modern low profile tire. The solution was to add the whitewall to the wheel, rather than the tire. Todd and Buzz would approve.  |
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Post by spandi on May 18, 2014 10:38:48 GMT -5
I poked around after seeing this  and they were a custom job from Colorado Customs (but I don't think you could get them for scoots) BTW, here's a look at some of the customers choppers (I guess now-a-days they're going for the Big Wheel look?) ccmotorcyclewheels.com/gallery-en/ |
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 18, 2014 12:30:34 GMT -5
Will-i-am had a good idea on his c-2 corvette. He wanted the the period appearance of whitewalls and the cornering performance of a modern low profile tire. The solution was to add the whitewall to the wheel, rather than the tire. Todd and Buzz would approve.
How COOL!!! A "Nylint" toy car wheel made full-scale! It works on toys, why not real cars! Thanks! Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 18, 2014 12:35:40 GMT -5
I poked around after seeing this and they were a custom job from Colorado Customs (but I don't think you could get them for scoots) BTW, here's a look at some of the customers choppers (I guess now-a-days they're going for the Big Wheel look?) ccmotorcyclewheels.com/gallery-en/
Wow! Those bikes are NICE! I'm afraid I'm just old enough (well, really PLENTY old enough) to still prefer the "normal" sized wheels and tires... Too many Chevy Caprice and Ford Crown Vic cars around here that look like 4-wheel-drive trucks on monster-size rims with two-inch sidewalls. It's possible to get most any part of a vehicle just plain TOO big, and out-of-proportion to look "right". Except the ENGINE of course... LOL! Thanks for the link! A lot of younger guys and gals will LOVE those big bikes!Leo |
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Post by spandi on May 18, 2014 12:49:52 GMT -5
You're welcome Leo. But I do love the "Normal" green one at the bottom of the page.
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Post by walterwhite on May 18, 2014 13:12:32 GMT -5
(but I don't think you could get them for scoots) why not? a paint shop can just paint the rims edge, thats possible. |
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