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Post by delention on May 3, 2014 21:13:52 GMT -5
My 150cc ZNEN Heritage Scooter has died. More specifically, the entire front of the scooter is receiving absolutely no power, and as a result, I cannot start the scooter. No lights, no instrument panel, no horn, no anything. But the battery and solenoid are working just fine. I checked with my dad by short-circuiting the solenoid and testing the battery voltage with a voltmeter. The solenoid successfully turned the engine on and the battery was outputting around 12.5 volts, which I believe is normal. So we isolated the problem to the front of the moped, with all the cable connections. We went through all the cables in the front, disconnecting and reconnecting all the cables in their proper place and tightening some of the loose ones with some tape. This succeeded in returning power and I could start the Moped normally from the front with the ignition switch. But then it behaved extremely erratically. We'd turn it on and off just fine, but then when we jiggled her a bit to make sure, power disappeared again and we could not turn her on. After playing with the cables some more again, we restored power again and found that if the cables where moved in a specific way, the lights on the instrument panel would flicker on and off. This is what allowed us to restore power and let the moped function normally from there. I took her out for a test ride to see if it was a cable that was coming loose, but I had power the whole ride, even when I went over some serious bumps. It was only when I shut her off that she goes dead again, and we have been unable to start her up again since. I had complete power before I hit the off switch, and after I hit the switch, absolutely nothing. What's wrong? To give some background, I'm about to hit 1000 miles on her and I've fallen off her two times. We're planning to take her for repairs on Monday but, can anyone shed some light on the issue? If needed, this is the specific scooter. www.powersportsmax.com/product_info.php/products_id/14966 |
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Post by alleyoop on May 3, 2014 21:30:53 GMT -5
When you turn the key on do you have power, any lights and or instrument gauges work like the fuel gauge and volt meter if it has one? Or is it that nothing happens with you hit the start button only. If it is completely dead no lights or nothing Have you checked the fuse coming off the battery. The fuse may look good but could be bad, always check on both sides of the fuse to make sure voltage is passing to the other side of the fuse.
Alleyoop
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Post by delention on May 3, 2014 21:35:08 GMT -5
Absolutely no power. It's not that nothing happens when I hit the start button. Turning the key provides no power at all. I'll check the fuses right now with the voltmeter, but we checked those as well and they DID look fine. I'll check right now, but to answer the question, no power whatsoever. No lights, no instrument panel, no ignition.
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Post by alleyoop on May 3, 2014 22:04:17 GMT -5
Ok so suspect the fuse first Also I do not know if yours has a fuse box but if it does then when you turn the key on it sends the 12v from the battery to the fuse box and everything else is fed from the fuse box and it would have about 4-5 fuses in the box.
That red thin wire coming off the Battery with the fuse on it goes to the IGNITION and the KEY always has 12v right there it is when you turn the KEY TO ON it makes contact with a BLACK WIRE which in turn feeds the rest of the system. So you may have pulled one of those wires off when messing with the wires up front.
Alleyoop
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Post by delention on May 3, 2014 22:40:32 GMT -5
I'll post pictures tomorrow to give a general idea of how it looks, but the issue arose after I parked outside a store while riding around town. I hadn't tinkered with it or opened it at all beforehand, so whatever happened, I don't know if it was us pulling something out. Like I said, as soon as I turned it off, the whole thing lost all power, even though it was running with power literally two seconds ago. When we took it apart and re-plugged everything in, it worked fine, until it lost power again. The scooter also does not have a fuse box, it only has two fuses. One is close to the battery, the other is near the front of the moped itself. I'll check both tomorrow and post pictures of the front and engine if the issue remains.
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Post by alleyoop on May 3, 2014 23:17:59 GMT -5
Yea check those fuses if they are TUBE fuses they may look good but could be bad on the ends where you cannot see that the wire is broke. So just replace them, the Blade type fuses they usually break around the middle and you can easily see that they are broke, BUT the two blades may not be making good contact inside the holders. So always check BOTH SIDES of the fuse to make sure voltage is getting through the fuse.
Alleyoop
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Post by delention on May 4, 2014 0:54:05 GMT -5
One is a blade type of fuse, another is a tube fuse. I'll check and see if I can replace both or at least see if one's the issue. Updates tomorrow, but thank you so far!
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Post by alleyoop on May 4, 2014 1:02:57 GMT -5
Cool hope that is all it is if a fuse is bad you have a dead scoot. Good Luck man update tomorrow and hope with good news.
Alleyoop
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Post by william42 on May 4, 2014 6:41:06 GMT -5
The "automotive type" fuse on the front of the bike (near the stearing column) is for the alarm system. I know that because I disconnected mine because the alarm system is a pain in the !
Now, you said that you unplugged and then replugged in the wire cables up front and tightened some with tape, and power was restored. That tells me that you have a loose connection in one, or more, wire(s) at a plug. What I would do if I had that problem is remove the tape you had put on to "tighten the connections", turn on the key, and wiggle and push and pull on the wire cable connectors until you find the one that restores power again. Then, one at a time, wiggle and push and pull on each individual wire at the suspected plug connector until you find the wire that makes the lights come on and off.
You never know how or why some folks wire their machines so why power would have to go up front to complete a circuit is anybodys guess. But by your initial discription of the problem, and my experience with electrical connections, indicates to me that you have a bad connection of a wire. The weakest part of any wire is where the electrical connector is crimped on to the wire. Should a wire break at that connector you no longer have a continuous electrical path. The wire's insulation will hide the break so they're hard to find but by pushing on the wire near the connector could possibly reconnect the wire strands where they broke in two, at least momentarily, allowing current to again flow to it's destination. That's what I think happened when you put on some tape. You reconnected the wire. But a break is a break and it won't stay connected like that forever, which is what I think happened in your case.
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Post by tvnacman on May 4, 2014 7:48:59 GMT -5
On the ignition switch jump the red to black if the fuse is good . Do that with the key in the tun position .
John
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Post by delention on May 5, 2014 17:19:42 GMT -5
It's not the fuse. We ran through it and checked both and nope, they are functioning fine. It's been almost impossible to really diagnose this thing because it only loses power when I use it for a few minutes and then shut her off. I went to my college, a 15 minute drive, and had power all the way until I parked and turned it off. Then nothing! But when I drove to my work, a five minute drive, she was fine! And all we've done to restore power is open her up and jiggle some cables around. What can possibly happen where turning her off drops all power?
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Post by delention on May 5, 2014 21:47:59 GMT -5
Update: Whatever it is, it's electrical. It's most likely a broken wire, as someone mentioned before, but the issue is, it's almost impossible to find, even if we tore the thing apart. All we really did was jingle and move some cables and disconnect and reconnect some things in the front and that successfully restored power. When I took her out for a drive and deliberately made the ride extremely bumpy, to see if anything would come loose, she still turned off and on fine. The only possible thing I can see is to either strip and replace the wiring or take her to the shop. -_- Any recommendations, guys? And if I do have to take her to the shop, how much would it run me, since it's an evident electrical issue?
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Post by alleyoop on May 5, 2014 22:04:43 GMT -5
You take it to a shop and they will rape you for labor, electrical problems they have to untape the harness to try and find the break and or bad connection. They also will strip the bike down to frame and wires and motor if they cannot find it right away. Even if they find it right away they will give you a story and a huge labor bill for it  They depend on the labor to make their money. You already have the best clue in the world you jiggled the wires and VIOLA!! So I would grab a few wires were you jiggled them before and trace the bad connection that way. Then you can isolate the wire that is causing it and trace it back to what it is hitting or moving or not making good contact with. That is the best CLUE and best way to find the culprit. Alleyoop |
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Post by delention on May 5, 2014 22:54:31 GMT -5
Ok. We'll take her apart and figure it out that way, even if it's so difficult to really recreate the issue, since unless she's running for a while or over long distances, she works fine. I'll work on her on a weekend most likely and we'll see then. Thanks for the help, guys!
I would imagine that I would need an in-depth understanding of the electrical system on this thing. Is there anywhere where I could get more information and help on that, btw?
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Post by alleyoop on May 5, 2014 23:27:39 GMT -5
Well the way things get voltage is through the KEY SWITCH. The Key switch ALWAYS has 12v coming from the battery.
Then when you turn the KEY ON it makes contact with usually a BLACK wire that then plugs into a plug and there may be jumper wires on that plug to send voltage to other systems on the scooter.
Now also if the scoot has an alarm or remote that effects whether it lights up the system or not. If it has been started with the remote it must be turned off by the remote voltage from the key will be dead. To get it to then work from the key you must disable the alarm usually hitting the unlock twice.
So all that happens in the from from the ignition to the wires up front.
The usual suspects would be bullet type connectors the male bullet plugs into a female connector and some do not fit tight and are loose.
Alleyoop
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
