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Post by freefour1968 on Aug 25, 2013 0:49:28 GMT -5
I have been on two wheels for a very long time . I remember the jap bikes and all the crap everyone would talk about them also had a few older friends that remember the British Invasion in the sixties and fifties with their bike . It comes to mind now about the chinies bikes and all the negative comments I read and hear about on the web and at meetings with other scooter enthusiast . Hear ....is the deal everything they say bad about the chinies scoots was also said about the Hondas , yamahas , triumphs , BSAs and others when they came . Brit bikes used cheap electronics and would rust because their chrome was thin , ......jap bikes were cheap and junk , would rust because their chrome was thin and used to much aluminum ( back when Harley's still made the old shovel head ) .....even Vespas as much as we hold them dear were also bad mouthed amongst the cushman crowd as being a cheap Italian sardine can with rubber band engine . Now it's the Chinese scoots and bikes that are getting the bad rap. Does anyone but me and others who have some grey weathered hair ....or what's left of it ...lol....remember that everything that is said now was said years and years ago about those other bikes and scooters that we think are so awesomely great now? Yes they are great now but when they were just making it into the markets they faced the same critasizum as the chiniese scoots and bikes face today . There are many differant manufactures on the Chinese scoots now and world markets will see who will survive and who will be the best of the best. And when it is ten or twenty years down the line only a few will still be producing , but those few will be the best of the best and can compete every bit as anything from Europe , Japan , USA, or were ever you want to say is the best ....they will be able to raise the bar just as others have . Weather it be best bang for the buck or refinement into something others want to have to play catch up with . They are the worlds biggest manufacturing country and although their copywrite laws suck big time I'm sure there is plenty of enovation to be had . Japs were also branded as copiers of everything if memory serves me correctly ...they copied something from the states or Europe and tried to refine it and make it better .....something's worked out well , others didn't . When the Chinese manufacturing sees a need to innovate and such they will just like Honda did in 69 with the 750 and Kawasaki did with the old triple two stroke 500s ....they just needed that one thing that was truly their idea to make it big and set them on the map for others to take notice . Ok my rant is done . Lol. Didn't want to step on any shoes . The scootes and bikes out there now are great , no question but don't forget they were also at one time called everything these chinese scoots we ride and enjoy so much . Now get out on ya scoot and ride ;D
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Post by gimpdog on Aug 25, 2013 1:09:35 GMT -5
Yep, and if I remember correctly, the 1st things the Japanese made were scooters. All history seems to be is just a cycle.  |
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Post by spandi on Aug 25, 2013 1:13:03 GMT -5
It will happen, just give it time. I can remember when a non-U.S. made car was a "foreign job" and the idolized Vespa was on sale in Sears for 300 bucks.
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Post by freefour1968 on Aug 25, 2013 1:13:11 GMT -5
Yup DX
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Post by rockynv on Aug 25, 2013 4:28:31 GMT -5
I also remember that the first Japanese cars were junky rust buckets made mostly from recycled scrap metal that they bought by the barge load from the US to smelt down into automobile bodies, etc. I helped quite a few friends who bought them only to find out that they didn't hold up well to New England salted winter roads. Some you could box the frames and repair however many were too far gone to make road worthy again.
It wasn't until they embraced Dr. Demming that they upped quality and designed vehicles for the US market. Detroit didn't want to believe it until it was too late and then branded the good Doctor a traitor.
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Post by scootrboi on Aug 25, 2013 6:24:59 GMT -5
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 25, 2013 6:39:06 GMT -5
I've posted this before. When I first asked my Harley-friend for advice on scooters, he told me to stay away from Chinese, because I'm not mechanical and they're not reliable--yet. He said he remembers when the same was true of Japanese products. And that Chinese products will get there with quality and reliability, but they're not there yet.
And then it'll be someone else's turn to mass-produce low-grade products. Maybe India or Korea?
>'Kat
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Post by spandi on Aug 25, 2013 7:59:49 GMT -5
Funny how both the Henkel and Vespa were from ex bomber manufacturers. |
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Post by spandi on Aug 25, 2013 8:06:55 GMT -5
I've posted this before. When I first asked my Harley-friend for advice on scooters, he told me to stay away from Chinese, because I'm not mechanical and they're not reliable--yet. He said he remembers when the same was true of Japanese products. And that Chinese products will get there with quality and reliability, but they're not there yet. And then it'll be someone else's turn to mass-produce low-grade products. Maybe India or Korea? >'Kat No such luck Kat. The folks over in India make the Genuine line of high quality scoots and also have been turning out these beauties for years. vvvv |
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Post by freefour1968 on Aug 25, 2013 8:30:06 GMT -5
[replyingto=spandi]spandi[/replyingto]Wow I remember when they were first starting to Introduced those to export to the USA . They still had the old Lucus ignition system and trailing link suspension . Reliable enough for India but couldn't pass US standards whith those old style drum front brakes ,so they went to a more modern ignition system and disk brake and modern carbs . So want one of those modern classics , that and maybe a Ural . Something about those old simple bikes that just begs for a Sunday afternoon ride on a tree lined curvy country road ;D
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Post by spandi on Aug 25, 2013 8:43:19 GMT -5
DX Don't they though? (BTW, the bikes have EFI)
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Post by freefour1968 on Aug 25, 2013 10:02:47 GMT -5
Lol sorry about that ....reminiscing of old bikes lol...yeah they have EFI now ;D
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Post by larrball on Aug 25, 2013 10:33:15 GMT -5
Funny how both the Henkel and Vespa were from ex bomber manufacturers. good one Spandi. Got to get it right the first time,every time. Kind of wondered what they used all the left over manufacturing equipment for. |
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Post by spandi on Aug 25, 2013 10:44:39 GMT -5
Thanks Larrball..... Yep, they both came out with a postwar product that was "Right on target." ;D
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 25, 2013 11:13:19 GMT -5
Gotta agree with freefour1968...
I started riding in 1960, learning to ride on a hand-shift Harley 74 pan-head. Been hooked ever since! My sweet Missus' first ride was a horse... Rode it to high-school in Maine, and moved up to a Model-A Ford after graduation... Didn't bother to get a "modern" car until the 1970's. I well-remember the Brit invasion. I rode Triumph, BSA, Norton and Royal Enfield. Owned a few, including a "Horex" 500 single. Once you got used to the cloth-insulated wiring and what it would do when damp, they were great rides (or so we THOUGHT...). My first Harley even had cloth wires... The only Brit bike I found to be truly POOR was a BSA Hornet 650. Nowadays, the elusive and rare Hornet is prized by collectors, but mine was truly MUCH worse than the very worst of the worst Chinese scoots... Everybody makes a lemon once in a while... LOL! Somewhere in the mid-sixties, the Japanese invasion began... Everybody and their cat got a Honda step-through 50. Then a  . I remember parents saying: "I'll NEVER let my kid ride a MOTORCYCLE... but he can have a HONDA." Then (be still my beating heart) a REAL motorcycle in the 160 twin. Then, WOO HOO... The unbelievable 305!!! First the 160 and 305 "Dream" with Earls fork and incredibly-strange sheetmetal... But then, the Super Hawk that was enough "motorcycle" to love inspite of the strange gas tank. Finally, the Scrambler versions. Actually looked like REAL motorcycleS... AND ran like them! With the 450 twin putting out more ponies than a Brit 650, the die was cast... Of course, there were many good bikes from other Japanese builders but Honda led the pack! Yup, REAL Americans trashed the Japanese bikes, but they were here to stay. Most likely, the Chinese scooters will go the same way. I've been riding my Xingyue 150 for nearly 6 years now. And, it HAS exhibited some truly piss-poor issues that kept me wrenching more than I'd like to... But... It's not as bad as my BSA was. It's not even as bad as my first couple of old Harleys were! It's made dirt-cheap, and no doubt is EXCELLENT for the money. Taiwan-made scooters are still Chinese, and from the ones I've checked out and test-ridden, stack up well against any brands. At half the price of a Vespa...Yup, I'm old enough to remember the fifties' rides. Cushman, Harley, Indian... and all the English stuff. Kick and cuss... Kick and cuss... Wrench and cuss... search for Whitworth, Metric and SAE wrenches and cuss... FINALLY get it to fire up and show it off at the high-school sock-hop... Can't turn it off, as it may not re-start... sit there idling with pungent smoke curling up from the oil-soaked engine, and watch a puddle of oil slowly form beneath your valiant "hoss"... LOL! If you had the "cajones" you could grab onto a spark-plug and poke some bare-waisted gal and watch her do a back-flip... EEWWWW... Those days were GOOD... But the bikes were MEDIOCRE at best... Someday, a few short decades from now, our grand-kids will be reminiscing about "those GREAT old Chinese scooters" and how they "put the whole world on 2-wheels"... Yup. Gotta happen. Enjoy the ride while you can. We're only here for a very, VERY short time... My last 67 years went by in oh, about 3 years... Remember ya'll, LIFE is what took place while you were waiting for your LIFE to begin. And it's all over in the blink of your eye.Leo (happily ridin' into the sunset) in Texas
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. I remember parents saying: "I'll NEVER let my kid ride a MOTORCYCLE... but he can have a HONDA." Then (be still my beating heart) a REAL motorcycle in the 160 twin.