New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 48 
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Joined: Aug 17, 2017 22:41:42 GMT -5
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Post by jjt on Aug 31, 2017 23:51:12 GMT -5
So you're saying these motors have a bigger exhaust valve than the intake? I've never seen that before.
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Post by chewbaca on Sept 1, 2017 0:36:12 GMT -5
5000 to 10000 miles is what I have been seeing for a first valve adjustment and about 20% longer before the next
It depends on the quality of the head
The .001 or .002 plus .003 is how you get to the .004 thousandths
gap that is so popular.
It's a very good number a Goldilocks type of number.
Wile you can add more it will cost in added wear
And adding less will wear less on your head but you'll need to do more frequent valve adjustments
On my last scooter i had titanium valve spring retainers and dished valves
This helped me a lot it gave me better high RPM valve performance AND reliability was improved as their was less mass getting hammered about
You can't buy a dished valve tho you have to do it yourself
I would be a PITA to do on its own but as part of a needed valve grind it was not to bad
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Post by pistonguy on Sept 2, 2017 8:30:22 GMT -5
5000 to 10000 miles is what I have been seeing for a first valve adjustment and about 20% longer before the next It depends on the quality of the head The .001 or .002 plus .003 is how you get to the .004 thousandths gap that is so popular. It's a very good number a Goldilocks type of number. Wile you can add more it will cost in added wear And adding less will wear less on your head but you'll need to do more frequent valve adjustments On my last scooter i had titanium valve spring retainers and dished valves This helped me a lot it gave me better high RPM valve performance AND reliability was improved as their was less mass getting hammered about You can't buy a dished valve tho you have to do it yourself I would be a PITA to do on its own but as part of a needed valve grind it was not to bad K Chewy the clarification is much better. So your numbers given on each number how much "insurance" or "safety" has been built in them? thats using pc correct verbiage.. There is a thickness difference with the Ti retainers over oe and the produce taller installed spring height and lower opening pressure. a Non existent shim kit is in order.. On the Dished Valves,,, Stainless or Ti how many do you want and how fast? Pistondude didn't move from TX to NC for the BBQ, Pork is just plane wrong.. |
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Post by chewbaca on Sept 2, 2017 11:02:59 GMT -5
Insurance or safety ?? None. it works until it doesn't however it's a fail safe scenario. So if you don't catch it in time its fine no damage has occurred. But if you want a range 0.002 is for race day ripping around a track at 9000 plus RPM trying to avoid valve float. 0.006 would be your kids scooter with a rev limiter
And you don't want to be wrenching on it all the time
The TI retainers I got were to stock spec on the critical surface
It was ez to feel the difference in weight even with only my fingers.
I prefer a little bit lower spring tension
I get back the lost valve control range by having lighter valve train components. So I dished my valves and trimmed and polished my rocker arms
There is a LOT of room for improvement in the OEM valve train components.
Someone is probably going going squawk at me
But I managed to get better that stock RPM with only an outer valve spring. The inner spring was broken and I didn't have a replacement.
If you do that with stock valve train components the intake valve starts to float @ 5000 RPM
I was pushing 8000 RPM before I got a little bit of float.
I think that after I got my new set of springs I might have had a 1400 RPM capable motor. But I never went fast enough to test that.
I never did get to find out how fast that scooter was before it was stolen 😖
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Post by pistonguy on Sept 5, 2017 12:12:17 GMT -5
Insurance or safety ?? None. it works until it doesn't however it's a fail safe scenario. So if you don't catch it in time its fine no damage has occurred. But if you want a range 0.002 is for race day ripping around a track at 9000 plus RPM trying to avoid valve float. 0.006 would be your kids scooter with a rev limiter And you don't want to be wrenching on it all the time The TI retainers I got were to stock spec on the critical surface It was ez to feel the difference in weight even with only my fingers. I prefer a little bit lower spring tension I get back the lost valve control range by having lighter valve train components. So I dished my valves and trimmed and polished my rocker arms There is a LOT of room for improvement in the OEM valve train components. Someone is probably going going squawk at me But I managed to get better that stock RPM with only an outer valve spring. The inner spring was broken and I didn't have a replacement. If you do that with stock valve train components the intake valve starts to float @ 5000 RPM I was pushing 8000 RPM before I got a little bit of float. I think that after I got my new set of springs I might have had a 1400 RPM capable motor. But I never went fast enough to test that. I never did get to find out how fast that scooter was before it was stolen 😖 These are General Consumer products no matter what hot rod labeling they have on them, the is No such thing as these products Without Insurance built in. Tis like the boneheads adding piston to cylinder clearance, It already has insurance built in don't mess with it. we say insurance to the public but in the meeting room its all about Idiot Proofing product. its already been idiot proofed as much as we can so don't mess with it.... The general public can't get there hands on the good stuff. Were your Ti retainers from NCY? or ? Glad you brought up the inner Valve Spring,, C'mon Chewy don't let me down here, Valve Spring tech. group A, Room #101, Did you note the against all we know of Valve Spring's logic that Second Spring? its Not a surprise she ran better with only the Outer main spring.. And you Do know how and why it broke right? |
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Post by chewbaca on Sept 5, 2017 23:10:44 GMT -5
Yea I know it's all nerfed and dumbed down ARRGG I WILL MAKE THE GOOD STUFF👹 So I started with stock parts and cut unneeded material Some times a casting is shaped the way it is for good reason But that doesn't mean that reason applies to my goals I have the freedom to try what I think will work So I do. I learned as much from what does not work as what does That and some of the parts really are better choices Like the snowflake clutch bell it is lighter than stock by about 200 grams but still more than strong enough my Ti retainers www.amazon.com/ScootsUSA-169-420-4508-Titanium-Spring-Retainers/dp/B00MXJBS4I/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504668151&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=valve+spring+retainer+gy6+150Yes I know why it broke the dang thing was upside down. It got bound up with the other spring I would love to get my hands on some bee hive springs in a proper size for a 150 And I really want an air amplifier It would probably revolutionize small engine boosting If only ppl would realize what they really do What do think you can do with 15 psi max boost |
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Post by pistonguy on Sept 6, 2017 9:45:59 GMT -5
Yea I know it's all nerfed and dumbed down ARRGG I WILL MAKE THE GOOD STUFF👹 So I started with stock parts and cut unneeded material Some times a casting is shaped the way it is for good reason But that doesn't mean that reason applies to my goals I have the freedom to try what I think will work So I do. I learned as much from what does not work as what does That and some of the parts really are better choices Like the snowflake clutch bell it is lighter than stock by about 200 grams but still more than strong enough my Ti retainers www.amazon.com/ScootsUSA-169-420-4508-Titanium-Spring-Retainers/dp/B00MXJBS4I/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504668151&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=valve+spring+retainer+gy6+150Yes I know why it broke the dang thing was upside down. It got bound up with the other spring I would love to get my hands on some bee hive springs in a proper size for a 150 And I really want an air amplifier It would probably revolutionize small engine boosting If only ppl would realize what they really do What do think you can do with 15 psi max boost Clarify "upside down".. please |
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Post by chewbaca on Sept 6, 2017 13:01:48 GMT -5
If you have the spring on the inside twist in the same direction as the spring on the outside.
It can cause the two springs to bind together
So now I check to make sure the coils are crossed
It will probably never ever happen again to any body ever
I was lucky it only broke the spring and didn't trash the head
I don't know how I ended up with a spring wound the wrong way
I didn't know that was even something that happened
How does a broken spring normally happen? I assume metal fatigue and destructive harmonics
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Post by pistonguy on Sept 6, 2017 15:55:41 GMT -5
If you have the spring on the inside twist in the same direction as the spring on the outside. It can cause the two springs to bind together So now I check to make sure the coils are crossed It will probably never ever happen again to any body ever I was lucky it only broke the spring and didn't trash the head I don't know how I ended up with a spring wound the wrong way I didn't know that was even something that happened How does a broken spring normally happen? I assume metal fatigue and destructive harmonics YES YOU GOT IT!!!!! Yaaaaaa. All the Springs I have are that way, Both Windings going the Same Direction. OE and Three others including the Fake Ti from NCY, all the windings go the same direction. are all the same. That sets up a real bad buzz of a frequency going up and down that spring, the inner spring wound the opposite direction counteracts that. its very simple.. Its the major block thats preventing me from moving forward on my project. I could get PSI to make me some but they only deal thru Dist, and the local person at the Dist is a Squirrel. |
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Post by chewbaca on Sept 6, 2017 20:18:17 GMT -5
What kinda idiot 😒 ....
It's COMMON !!!!
Well you can find the correct spring I did.
Now I wonder how the springs are in my new scoot 😕
I haven't done the first valve adjustment yet maybe I should do a preemptive inspection 😑
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Post by pistonguy on Sept 6, 2017 20:44:08 GMT -5
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