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Post by nulldevice on Apr 7, 2013 21:10:55 GMT -5
I have 4500 miles on my TMAX and it is obvious I will be buying at least one front and two back tires per year if I stay with scooter tires. I don't accept as reasonable to only get 5-10k miles out of a radial tire, especially since that is what I was getting 45 years ago on motorcycles/scooters of similar size, power, and weight on bias ply tires. Car tires lasted about 15-20k miles back then but get about five times that mileage today.
Any one out there with tire design and testing experience who can tell me what I am getting for the increased cost and lack of tire mileage improvement over the last 45 years? With ---->testing numbers<-----? I am feeling truly ripped off.
Testing numbers would be nice.
Anecdotal stories from dark siders are OK too.
Saying more yada yada or less yada yada need testing numbers to back them up.
OMG! YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!! posts are not helpful.
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Post by ridecheap on Apr 7, 2013 21:17:58 GMT -5
Car tires are much wider means less replacing while scooters tires are skinny usually less rim size which equals more tire to the ground more wear.
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Post by ridecheap on Apr 7, 2013 21:22:36 GMT -5
I have the Michelin S1 tires
Michelin S1 Performance Scooter Tire The Michelin S1 tire emphasizes performance and cutting-edge style. While its large tread blocks help promote superb wear resistance, the directional design combines durability and handling. High-performance, directional tread design for durability and handling
Up to date styling looks great on any scooter
Center groove to disperse water and increase traction
I am guessing the more thick tread the more miles.
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Post by woowilly on Apr 7, 2013 21:48:04 GMT -5
Try a harder compound tire. ( I'm not sure if there is much of a selection for scooter tires.) For motorcycles there are comparison charts online that show you where different tires are for the traction and wear rates. Harder rubber compound tires wear slower but have less traction than softer compound tires. If your riding stye pushes it to the limits go with a soft compound tire, if slow and easy is your thing you can get by on a hard compound tire and have long tire life.
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Post by Paladin on Apr 7, 2013 23:37:42 GMT -5
... Anecdotal stories from dark siders are OK too.... In my opinion, as far as I know, etc.: Friends on the Savage Forum, stand on their dark side tires. You can see YouTube with darksiders on their motorcycles having no problem. AFAIK, tires are *far* better and sticker than the past. Both my Savage and me Vespa has no problem grinding the pegs or equivalent. The only times I got a little squirmy was on steel and painted lines in the wet. I don't crash. I don't want to crash. I want tires that are far sticky than I need. But they are. In the dry, in curves on the edge of car tires, you are just fine. If you are a high mileage commuter/tourer that are mostly upright, dark side tires far cheaper per mile. You have 120/70R15 and 160/60R15 tires. You can try Michelin X - 125R15 tires front and common 165-15 tires in the rear. |
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Post by nulldevice on Apr 9, 2013 19:05:57 GMT -5
Again, where are the improvements over the last 45 years. I was grinding foot pegs and kickstands on Brittish and Japanese bikes back in the late 60s on Dunlop k70 tires, and so were those I rode with.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 10, 2013 3:44:44 GMT -5
Long wear tires are a trade off today just as they were back then. You want long wear you trade off wet traction especially. Your most expensive hi-performance automotive tires of today only last around 5,000 miles too. Personally I went with the Sava MC-28 Diamond for the front and the Pirelli MT-66 in the back on my Aprilia. Both are metric cruser tires of compatible tread and compounds however they have much more rubber on them compared to a scooter tire which I feel contribures to the longer wear. Both last about 12,000 miles and perform well wet or dry in town and on the interstate at speeds beyond 75 mph. I had to mix and match as my bike takes the same as the Burgman and Majesty up front 120/70-15 with no altenatives (I will only go up 1 in width or aspect however there is not enough clearance to do that and I won't go down sizes) and there are no radials in the 130/80-15 (alts: 130/  -15 or 140/80-15) sizes that are only available in bias ply for the rear otherwise I would be considering Metric Cruser radial tires instead. The Sava MC-26 and Pirelli MT-66 both have tread patterns and formulations similar to the Pirelli Diablo or Metzler (owned by Pirelli) Marathon 880 and I may go with the Marathon 880 in the 140/80-15 when its time. I quite often watch the Touring Cruisers I ride with do low speed slides off the road when it is slightly damp out due to their long wearing hard rubber touring tires. 25,000 miles with regular slides off the back roads because its humid or damp out is no bargain to me. |
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Post by wiscompton on Apr 10, 2013 23:12:34 GMT -5
Thats just the way it is.
Scooter tires are pretty cheap and take like half an hour to swap in your own garage.
Consider how many more times a given section of tire contacts the pavement on a 10-14" rim than on a 20" motorcycle or car rim.
I am not a mathematician but lets consider the basics of it.
3.14 times the radius of the tire squared. Where as a scooter tire might have a 7" radius, a motorcycle tire might have a 10" plus radius.
Long story short a scooter wheel has to spin a lot more e.g. spend a lot more time on the road than a bigger wheeled vehicle.
Someone who knows what they are going can run the numbers but basically what I am saying is its not the miles you should be counting but the millions of rotations.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 13, 2013 6:29:17 GMT -5
The average contact patch of a motorbike tire is smaller than the size of a credit card so a lot is going on in that small amount of space.
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Post by nulldevice on Apr 14, 2013 0:22:15 GMT -5
[replyingto=wiscompton]wiscompton[/replyingto]Your scooter tires may be cheap, and maybe take a half hour to change.
The Bridgestone tires that came on my scooter cost about $100 each and I am looking at buying about three sets per year (mu first guesstimate was off). I don't consider 500 to 700 dollars per six to eight month riding season to keep my scooter well shod cheap.
I am looking at alternatives . . .
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Post by jwalz1 on Apr 14, 2013 17:01:10 GMT -5
Nulldevice,
I know beans about motorcycle tires, but if those are OEM on a TMAX which is the sportbike of scooters, I am guessing they went with some very sticky soft compound. It is going to be a tradeoff for longer wear, but I guess I'd be a little upset about only 4500 miles too. Woowilly is right though, try a harder compound and it will probably last longer and see how upset you are with any tradeoff in handling.
The tires of yesteryear you compare to would not hold the road anywhere near what they do today, both in terms of rubber compounds and tread design. I will take the added safety for a little more expense, but at maybe a couple thousand miles a year for me, I can get three years or so out of a set.
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-15 or 140/80-15) sizes that are only available in bias ply for the rear otherwise I would be considering Metric Cruser radial tires instead.
