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Post by spandi on Feb 16, 2017 4:50:49 GMT -5
If your an occasional rider or just like to tinker rolling the dice on a Chinese bike can work out but for reliable 12,000 to 15,000 miles per year transportation they many times will cost more than a used or even new bike thats made of more sturdy materials. it's really hard for me to classify all chines rides as "less quality". my 50cc never gave me a bit of problems, and i rode it almost every day. although i do have to admit, it left me stranded once, but that isn't really unusual. my 250 on the other hand was a beast to be reckoned with. i was beginning to wonder who would win, me or it. i finally got it tamed enough that i was fairly certain it could go cross country. then it just gave up. i debated expending any more time/effort in it, and there it sits. i'll have to agree with you. if you aren't mechanically inclined, then shop elsewhere. if you are, then chinese can be a viable alternative Don't I know it DTF. Since I'm "mechanically inclined" I've rebuilt my scooter from the ground up. I know from where Rocky speaks, Chinese machines are slowly getting better, due to changing market patterns, (India) they have been forced to upgrade quality control. Hopefully they'll follow the well trod path of the Japanese, and improve quality and reliability to complete in a global market. |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 16, 2017 10:57:00 GMT -5
The ability to consistently classify which are quality is the roll of the dice. Lance was quality until Znen then they became junk and now that they dumped Znen for Sym they are quality again however that does come at a price and still not a 100,000 mile bike.
I was just talking with a rider who has 150,000 (mostly Freeway) miles on his Sport City 250 and though its has been trouble free aside from regular oil, belt, roller, etc by the book maintenance he is concerned about pushing it to 200,000 miles or trading in for something newer even though he has had no problems with the bike. He bought his used for very cheep when it had around 30,000 miles on it so the economics of it all are stellar. On these Piaggio/Vespa/Aprilia bikes most issues are self inflicted however if you go by the book and resist tinkering along with "Bargain" supplies they will run well past 100,000 miles with few issues.
The only trouble I have had with mine was from putting a "Bargain" belt on it that turned out to be out of date old stock that should have been destroyed and dealing with the collateral damage from that. I will not go cheap on the belt again and will only purchase new fresh belts from known reputable dealers. When you see a "Real Bargain" on OEM belts too many times they were belts deemed too old to be used which were diverted by someone from being recycled and then sold as new on Ebay or some other venue. I won't blame Piaggio for that one and you won't fool me twice into falling into that trap.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 16, 2017 14:17:34 GMT -5
Don't I know it DTF. Since I'm "mechanically inclined" I've rebuilt my scooter from the ground up. I know from where Rocky speaks, Chinese machines are slowly getting better, due to changing market patterns, (India) they have been forced to upgrade quality control. Hopefully they'll follow the well trod path of the Japanese, and improve quality and reliability to complete in a global market. i wrenched on mine so much, that i was able to put together a small toolkit that weighed about 3 to 5 pounds (excluding a 13 inch breakerbar). i strapped the breakerbar to the frame of the bike and carried the smaller parts in a waist pack. the pack contained the tools to remove every bolt and nut on the bike. overheating was the only real issue with the engine, although i did have a minor bendix problem with it. i discovered that  % of my no start problems was electrical, not mechanical. when i first got it, i would never know if it would start, and i couldn't figure out why not. the electrics soon started to fall apart, and i rewired the entire bike. after the rewiring job, i didn't have any more no starts, except the mechanical kind which was few. when it was mechanical, it was associated with the fuel, carb, or intake. the question is, would i get another one. if the price was right, i probably would. but here again, i would be relying on my mechanical knowledge and my previous experience. chinese can be good rides, but only if you don't mind getting your hands dirty and parts dealers insist on quality parts. |
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Post by spandi on Feb 16, 2017 22:55:19 GMT -5
I had "issues" with my electricals as well. I found the way around them was replacing the Chinese made connectors with ones made by Deutsch. (No more problems and they're built like a bank vault too.)
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 17, 2017 4:59:41 GMT -5
I had "issues" with my electricals as well. I found the way around them was replacing the Chinese made connectors with ones made by Deutsch. (No more problems and they're built like a bank vault too.) any reason for that particular brand? i never did find the exact cause of my problems, but it was somewhere in the wiring. i bet a lot of it was my ignition switch. i couldn't redesign the tail light/turn signal section, so i just added extras. the dash gauges were set in molded styrofoam, and that was screwed to the handlebars. of course the little pegs that went to the handlebars broke, and that made the entire unit flop around. the gauges were all electronic LED and finally gave up. now, add to that a overheating problem that you could only go about 3 miles in 80F weather before it overheated. i kept at it though. actually it turned into a pretty decent ride, it didn't look all that good though. only after i been through the fire that i discover the PDI. i doubt if it would have made much difference, you would only be delaying the inevitable. don't get me wrong, my chinese 50cc was an angel, i sold it for the same price i gave for it. my chinese 250cc was a strong running engine, seldom did i go anywhere unless i was WOT. |
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Post by spandi on Feb 17, 2017 13:10:12 GMT -5
I had "issues" with my electricals as well. I found the way around them was replacing the Chinese made connectors with ones made by Deutsch. (No more problems and they're built like a bank vault too.) any reason for that particular brand? i never did find the exact cause of my problems, but it was somewhere in the wiring. i bet a lot of it was my ignition switch. i couldn't redesign the tail light/turn signal section, so i just added extras. the dash gauges were set in molded styrofoam, and that was screwed to the handlebars. of course the little pegs that went to the handlebars broke, and that made the entire unit flop around. the gauges were all electronic LED and finally gave up. now, add to that a overheating problem that you could only go about 3 miles in 80F weather before it overheated. i kept at it though. actually it turned into a pretty decent ride, it didn't look all that good though. only after i been through the fire that i discover the PDI. i doubt if it would have made much difference, you would only be delaying the inevitable. don't get me wrong, my chinese 50cc was an angel, i sold it for the same price i gave for it. my chinese 250cc was a strong running engine, seldom did i go anywhere unless i was WOT. In reply to your question; the contacts in the Chinese made plugs are stamped sheet metal and over time bend loose, causing "flickering" or no electrical flow what-so-ever. The Deutsch connectors on the other hand consist of a solid pin and a corrosponding metal tube, no amount of vibration will shake it loose. In addition it has a wire locking mechanism that keeps the wiring solidly in place and silicone rubber gaskets that keep water out and contacts dry. Oh yeah.... Like I said they lock up like a bank vault. (I also read that both NASCAR and Harley Davidson use them, but they ain't cheap to buy.) |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 17, 2017 13:44:42 GMT -5
the only connectors of that type i kept was to the regulator and CDI.
i did away with all the rest, and used direct connections.
i would have used direct connections with the above, but it would have been difficult to replace them when needed.
the switches were purchased at a local electrical shop, and i water proofed them with bicycle innertubes.
my bike wouldn't run if there was even a hint of moisture on the road.
rewiring solved that problem.
yeah, she didn't look all that good, but i finally got it to where i was confident i could take it on a 300 mile trip without a breakdown.
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Post by onewheeldrive on Feb 19, 2017 4:46:48 GMT -5
I wouldn't even say you have to be "mechanically inclined" when looking into a Chinese scooter (specifically). I'd say "physically able and more than half a brain" (maybe not "more than 1/2 a brain", just some common sense and willingness to learn) that can afford a few new tools here and there. I know there are always exceptions. Some people just can't do certain things and that's understandable, but I believe most people CAN--especially with a little encouragement, which I've seen in the forums many times!
Really all you need to do is a little searching (most people today know how-- especially the younger generation) for a repair manual, know how to use a wratchet and a screwdriver, maybe an impact wrench.
Almost anything you want to know about Chinese scooters is online. It really isn't hard to find scooter forums either, because probably any issue you search for will show up the first page and from a scooter forum.
As a matter of fact, I'd even say if you want to be more "mechanically inclined" then buy a Chinese scooter, because you will have to work on it. It's not rocket science, especially when all the information is right in front of you, and a lot of it is well layed out and organized.
It's really more about the person and how far they are willing to go to gain the knowledge that is out there already and put it to use. I've seen quite a few people come to the forums that have "worked on bikes and cars their whole life" stumped by a Chinese scooter. It happens to a lot of people, and there is nothing wrong with it, imo. We all learn together from other people's problems here anyway.
I'm sure most of us didn't initially sign up to a scooter forum to "hang out", lol. Sooner or later most people will get stumped (I have many times) but like I said earlier, there is lots of help and info out there.
Take away the internet, that's another story.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 19, 2017 17:44:32 GMT -5
I wouldn't even say you have to be "mechanically inclined" when looking into a Chinese scooter (specifically). I'd say "physically able and more than half a brain" (maybe not "more than 1/2 a brain", just some common sense and willingness to learn) that can afford a few new tools here and there. I know there are always exceptions. Some people just can't do certain things and that's understandable, but I believe most people CAN--especially with a little encouragement, which I've seen in the forums many times! Really all you need to do is a little searching (most people today know how-- especially the younger generation) for a repair manual, know how to use a wratchet and a screwdriver, maybe an impact wrench. Almost anything you want to know about Chinese scooters is online. It really isn't hard to find scooter forums either, because probably any issue you search for will show up the first page and from a scooter forum. As a matter of fact, I'd even say if you want to be more "mechanically inclined" then buy a Chinese scooter, because you will have to work on it. It's not rocket science, especially when all the information is right in front of you, and a lot of it is well layed out and organized. It's really more about the person and how far they are willing to go to gain the knowledge that is out there already and put it to use. I've seen quite a few people come to the forums that have "worked on bikes and cars their whole life" stumped by a Chinese scooter. It happens to a lot of people, and there is nothing wrong with it, imo. We all learn together from other people's problems here anyway. I'm sure most of us didn't initially sign up to a scooter forum to "hang out", lol. Sooner or later most people will get stumped (I have many times) but like I said earlier, there is lots of help and info out there. Take away the internet, that's another story. +1 i know exactly what you mean. my 50cc was my first encounter with a scooter, and i was obsessed from the get go. i landed on scootdawg (RIP bro), and i'm hopelessly hooked. i'll never own a "geared" motorcycle, and that isn't disrespect, it's that gears just freak me out. that site helped me a lot, maybe i should say IT taught me everything i knew. here's a bone for ya. |
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Post by onewheeldrive on Feb 20, 2017 0:12:31 GMT -5
^ Thanks man!
I started off on a "Yahoo Group" for Tank scooters, then scooterforumonline, and then finally signed up to scootdawg. I wound up signing up to scooterdoc and scooterrebels several years ago, but I never post there. I pretty much only post here anymore, and maybe a couple times a year at 49ccscoot. All different usernames in the forums, too. I never really thought about using the same username all across the boards. I would now probably.
The first 3-4 years of me having this scoot, I was obsessively checking scooter forums all the time. Not as much anymore after all the knowledge I've gained over the last, nearly nine years. I do check this forum everyday for the most part.
I will say the forums have helped me pretty much with anything and everything I've ever needed. It's really crazy to think about where I was when I first got my scoot and where I'm at now. I made a thread here and on scootdawg about what this scoot taught me, and how it carried over to other things in life.
It's fun to look back on older posts sometimes. I wish scooterforumonline was still up because I posted there a lot, and it'd be a laugh to go through my "beginner" posts. (Not that I'm a pro, lol)
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% of my no start problems was electrical, not mechanical.
