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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 15, 2015 19:50:38 GMT -5
I currently have one of those generic "free flowing" exhausts sold online and the sound is actually quite nice. The system offers good low end, quick(er) mid range, and tapers off on the high end.
My curiosity stems from the fact that I happened to ride a completely stock scooter that is the exact make/model as mine. His scooter seems to have the same top end ~60 - 65 mph, while mine has quicker mid range: say from 40 - 55 mph. We both seem to have decent bottom end speed.
So I was wondering if I took a 50cc muffler that was gutted would I be able to achieve the same performance, without having the extreme LOUDNESS, that my "free flowing" exhaust has? Since these "Hi-Perf" mufflers don't seem to do very much over "stock" mufflers.
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 14, 2015 19:35:58 GMT -5
Hi all, I have a gutted muffler that was originally for a 50cc motor. I am wondering if, assuming it will bolt up to the head, a gutted muffler for a 50cc will provide proper back pressure for a 150cc motor? 1) Will the gutted muffler create too much back pressure? 2) Will the gutted muffler be about the same back pressure as a stock muffler? 3) Will the gutted muffler have not enough back pressure? I would love to hear the feasibility of this idea, and your thoughts on this, thanks.  |
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 10, 2015 20:52:55 GMT -5
OK...The problem seems to be corrected. Scooter will hold and maintain a consistent idle, and also have no hesitation/stumble at just off idle all the way to WOT, with no backfiring.  For anyone else that might read this, the issue(s) were. 1) Float was either not sealing or... 2) A/F mixture screw was installed wrong (the O-ring and flat washer go on the head end of the screw NOT the pointy end) 3) The muffler was swapped out with a known stock working muffler (this completely took care of the backfiring just by itself) I have a few more electrical gremlins to dispatch, but otherwise, this scooter is now fully operational. Thank you all for the help and support, this has been a most challenging endeavor.  |
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 9, 2015 23:18:45 GMT -5
OK...I now have a fully functional electrical system. I can now get back to fixing the original problem of deceleration backfiring.  I am going to clean a 150cc carb, as it has slightly bigger jets, and see if I can tune out the backfiring. Any recommendations on a particular jet size? The scooter is basically stock except the PAIR system has been removed and the previous owner gutted the muffler for "performance" reasons. |
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 7, 2015 22:05:48 GMT -5
There is no labor charge for these services being performed. I can get the scooter to start/run just fine by grounding across the solenoid terminals. I unwrapped the wiring harness and changed the stator to a known good stator. The horn switch passes a continuity test, and the horn blows load and proud when wired direct to the battery. Yet I get nothing when I press the horn button???  I'm calling it a night, and I'll pick back up tomorrow.  |
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 7, 2015 10:33:07 GMT -5
Yeah, everything is relative. The motor has been used as a daily driver for just about a year, and the customer weighs about 350 lbs, as well as carrying about 40lbs worth of stuff with her everywhere she goes.
SO...120 psi of compression after a year of use, is relatively, good. Especially considering that maintaining 30 -35 mph requires 75% - 100% throttle, every day, every ride, every where...poor little motor is holding up like a champ I would say...lol
The harness connector is disconnected from the stator on the back end and disconnected from the voltage regulator on the front end...Negative MM lead to battery ground, red MM lead to green, white, yellow wires produces continuity tone.
Does that sound right?
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 7, 2015 9:00:40 GMT -5
Compression was already checked. The scooter is has 118 - 120 psi of compression. Not bad for a 50cc motor  |
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 7, 2015 8:19:39 GMT -5
The thinner red wire looks good. I'm going to some thorough testing today with my multi meter.
I did a continuity test on the right side brake safety switch and I get a beep with the brake lever squeezed and not squeezed. So that may be part of the problem.
The stator has a 3 prong connector with a green, white, and yellow wire. If I put the ground multi meter lead on the green stator wire, both the green and yellow wire get a beep on the front connector. This connector plugs into the voltage regulator. I'm not sure they both should be getting a tone, could be an internal short???
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 6, 2015 19:21:42 GMT -5
Gasket maker was used to repair a leak, soon the new spacer/intake/intake O-ring will be here, and I'll use her old one as a testing unit. The electrical gremlins are really busting my chops... She has NO electrical systems working at all other than the motor runs when the solenoid is jumped.
No rear lights, brake lights, turn signals, head lights, running lights, no kill switch, no electric start. Bulbs test good....Didn't have time to ohm everything out with the volt meter, just do a few quick continuity tests.
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 6, 2015 8:15:38 GMT -5
I applied high-temp silicone gasket maker to the intake manifold/carb spacer to ensure a good seal. and sprayed all around the jug/carb spacer and carb spacer/intake manifold with brake cleaner. No leaks detected.
Sprayed air intake to carb junction and intake manifold to carb junction, no leaks detected.
I agree gutting the muffler could create a need to upjet. I'm looking to swap with a known stock muffler to see if this corrects the problem.
I'm also going to rebuild a different carb and try that too. I'll keep updating the thread as I do these things.
The latest development is scooter lost ALL lights, turn signals, instrument cluster, etc....BUT...grounding out the solenoid terminals causes it to start right up and run. Had all the lights working the day before then nothing today.
We had put a new wiring harness in it, but we still don't seem to be running off the stator ( lights don't get brighter when revved). So I'll have to do some electrical diagnostics today as well.
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 5, 2015 14:34:07 GMT -5
I don't understand mechanically,why it would need up jetting, when it is a stock 50cc motor. The carb should be able to prevent gas seepage into the system by way of the float (assuming I have adjusted the float properly).
Even if the carb needs up jetting, it should run consistent to whatever degree of tuning we do. Albeit, said tuning, would not necessarily produce the correct balance needed.
The muffler may have been "gutted" by its previous owner, thereby causing excessive loss of back pressure/baffling, which allows more of the backfiring to be heard. I don't have a stock muffler on hand to try.
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Post by g2kmobile on Nov 5, 2015 10:05:11 GMT -5
Sorry it took so long to get the pics up, the scooter is the ONLY transportation option, the customer has. We finally got it back into the shop yesterday, it died and wouldn't start at all. That turned out to be a bad CDI. Here are the pictures of the vacuum line routing and the "device" the S pipe connects to. The scooter is still having all the same issues as previously posted.     I'm not sure I mentioned this before: the scooter can't seem to be adjusted to where its idle is the correct speed without affecting something else... If the idle speed is set to 3000 rpm, light throttling will cause it to idle down to 1500 - 2000 for a second or two, then go back up to 3000. If adjusted to 1900 - 2000 rpm, light throttling will cause it to idle down to 500 - 700 rpm, which in turn causes it to stall out. Adjusting the A/F mixture screw does NOT affect this behavior. Adjusting the A/F mixture screw one way brings the expected response of light stumbling when increasing throttle from idle. Or adjusting the other way causes light stumbling when going WOT, but not when first coming off idle, as one would expect. Curious to hear your ideas on this. Again, thank you all for the help this is proving a most difficult case. |
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Post by g2kmobile on Oct 23, 2015 9:15:28 GMT -5
urbanmadness I have spark when the scooter is off the center stand. What happens is when the scooter hits the ground from being taken off the stand the engine RPM either drops or it dies completely. If it dies I can simply restart it with no problems/issues. Whats curious is that I have double checked all wiring connections, and they are tight. I have also inspected the layout of vacuum and fuel lines to see if a momentary "pinching" is occurring and there is no "pinching" of any vacuum or fuel lines. I should have pictures up either later today or sometime tomorrow. From what I have read when you remove the PAIR system you should block off the hole where the "S pipe" connects to the head. On this scooter there is still a metal tube attached and it is routed to some type of device. So there may be an issue there.
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Post by g2kmobile on Oct 22, 2015 12:47:17 GMT -5
Muffler studs are tight and muffler gasket is new (3 days old). There is a small pinhole in the muffler tube but it won't even make a Bic lighter sputter out. It'll be tomorrow before I can post pics of the vacuum hose routing(s).
Thank you guys for the help so far. I repair scooters on the side and have never encountered a problem like this before. The scooter dying when let off the center stand is confusing me too. There are no "safety switches" on this scoot that tie into the stands like there are on a Zuma or Bergman.
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Post by g2kmobile on Oct 22, 2015 11:20:26 GMT -5
Hi guys and gals, I'm still new to the boards. I have a 2011 Peace sports 50cc scooter, that I would really appreciate your help with. The scooter always backfires on deceleration, and dies when taken off the center stand. It has either too high an idle or too low an idle once warmed up. The smog system has been removed. Adjusting the fuel/air mixture screw makes essentially no difference in rpm unless screwed all the way in (clockwise). Here is the work that has been performed thus far:
Carb has been completely torn down and cleaned thoroughly.
New cdi, stator, solenoid installed, each played with individually so as to verify integrity of each component.
Spark plug gapped at .020,.021,.022,.024,.028,.030,.035, and scooter tested to see if each gap setting made a difference. So far, .020 seems to produce the best results.
Valve clearance set to .003 for both intake and exhaust, exhaust gasket at muffler/head replaced and tightened
new wiring harness installed, new vacuum operated petcock installed.
New (keyed) ignition switch, kill switch tests good.
No air leaks at intake manifold to carb or head. No air leaks at airbox to carb, vacuum lines replaced, gas lines replaced, fuel filter replaced.
Float level adjusted, bowl does fill with fuel. No gas detected in air cleaner.
I cannot keep this scooter from backfiring when letting off the throttle from WOT. My current thinking is that SMOG removal = needs 1 size smaller jets = an always rich condition?? = backfiring??
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Any thoughts?
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