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Post by rockynv on Nov 19, 2016 8:57:47 GMT -5
A lot of folks got their MSF certification on the 250. They would not let me ride it though because the shaft on the shifter was only about the same diameter as a pencil and tended to twist when a larger rider was on them so hopefully on they beefed the new ones up a bit: Old Rebel:  New Rebel:  |
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Post by rockynv on Nov 18, 2016 11:03:56 GMT -5
The Zmax needs to be run in until the engine is hot to do its job and needs to be circulated completely throughout the engine. 15 minutes minimum but 30 minutes would be better. Its all on the package.
Just don't try to ride like you just stole it or break any speed records.
If the engine is extremely gummed up inside you may see your oil turn interesting colors as it releases all that junk and frees things up.
You have to start it up immediately too or as I mentioned previously it will all be absorbed into the oil sump casting. It is designed to be absorbed by the metal and release the dirt from behind so with that in mind wear gloves and don't pour it on yourself.
Yes a good working fuel pump helps and sometimes especially at high rpm an electric is the way to go as there may be such a diminished intake pulse at high speed that even the best vacuum pump might stop pumping fuel altogether.
I have a fuel injected Aprilia and the high pressure electric injection pump has plenty of reserve capacity to support even a 1+ liter bike.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 18, 2016 10:53:56 GMT -5
Almost forgot. You might be surprised what adding a few droplets of a good dish soap such as Dawn to the vinegar mixture does. Sometimes there may be a bit of wax or oil protecting the rust and the dish soap will break up its surface tension and let the vinegar get through it. The soap also can make the action of the vinegar more apparent.
11/21/2016 - I just did this with the Dawn on some CVT case bolts that had rusty threads and the dish soap speed up the reaction about 3 fold. Got them cleaned up in about 30 minutes instead of a few hours. Just used an old coffee cup 1.5 ounces vinegar, 1 ounce water and a droplet of dish soap scrubbing a bit with an old tooth brush. I avoid using a plain steel wire brush when I can since it can accelerate the return of the rust as there are always some minute particles of the bristles left behind and we all know how fast a plain steel wire brush rusts.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 18, 2016 9:11:11 GMT -5
Thanks RockyNV. The symptoms (low power, dies at idle,...) were there before the valve adjustment. The mechanic thought that the valve adjustment would fix them. It has 6,000 miles which seems to fit the normal valve adjustment schedule. The valve adjustment had no impact on the symptoms. The scooter had been sitting before I got it and has been sitting a lot of the time since while I try to get it back to rideable shape again. The valve adjustment by the mechanic was done after it sat overnight. I haven't heard of ZMax. Has anyone else had any experience using it? I'll try to read up on it. I have a narrow window when my local weather lets me work on it. I am moving into the favorable period again. I would really like to get this thing up and going reliably very soon before I can no longer work on it due to weather. Should I mess with Zmaz or other solutions or should I start pulling the head? I have not pulled the head before and would be working alone. But with a solid support team believe I could do it. It may not be as quick as if I had it done by a mechanic but I do work for free. At 6,000 miles its hard to imagine a 257 that would be as completely worn out as your mechanic is leading you to believe unless it was really abused, overheated, soft seized, run without oil, etc. You may have simply had a very ethanol impacted fuel system as your original problem and now its compounded by a botched valve adjustment. Yes you could have a bad valve too or you could have a bike where the timing chain is off a notch as who knows what evil lurks in the heart of a used bike. Are you 100% confident in this mechanics ability to have inspected, diagnosed and adjusted the valves correctly? If you are then get some fuel system and engine treatment to clean the carb, valves and the inside of the engine into that bike to free up whats clogged or sticking before it does any further damage. If the rings are gummed up and stuck the longer you wait the more likely the piston and cylinder are going to get scored and require replacement. If the fuel system is partially clogged and running lean from sitting unused with ethanol in it or the valves are sticking then you are chancing burning a valve or burning a hole in the top of the piston. The biggest issue I see with the 257 is people expecting it to perform like an European 250 however its not a 25 hp bike its only 16 hp so you won't be seeing the same 80+ mph performance from the bike as you would expect from the European bikes. When you push them at wide open throttle on the highway the fuel pumps can't keep up so they run lean and can burn valves along with the cylinder if you keep beating on them. |
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Post by rockynv on Nov 18, 2016 8:41:36 GMT -5
To promote Parts For Scooters this Ducati Inspired paint scheme might work:  |
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Post by rockynv on Nov 17, 2016 9:23:33 GMT -5
If it suddenly lost power after the mechanic adjusted the valves chances are he messed up and set them too tight. You may simply just have to readjust them a little more loosely. The saying is that "A Loose Valve is a Happy Valve".
Running it with tight valves will eventually burn a valve leading to a more costly repair.
Did you have the valves adjusted because of a problem or as per the maintenance schedule?
After verifying that the valves are not set too tightly (on the 257 that would be done with the engine cold after sitting overnight) you could put in some Zmax and immediately run the engine for at least 30 minutes as you can't pour it in and wait before starting the engine since it has to flow and get warm to treat the engine along with clean the rings, valve guides, etc. Too many let it sit too long before startup which can waste it as the treatment gets soaked up in the metal of the oil pan/sump or loosens all the sludge in the bottom of the sump clogging the oil screen.
I have used Zmax in engines that were gummed up badly that looked like they were going to need a rebuild however it cleaned and freed them up so nicely that they ran for another 100,000 miles.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 17, 2016 9:04:34 GMT -5
Cyborg. Which side cover? How do I know I have the compression stroke? It will get harder to turn the engine on the compression stroke. |
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Post by rockynv on Nov 17, 2016 8:57:53 GMT -5
Non-scratch pad or even just a course cloth if the chrome has not blistered and you want to save it. Polish with a rag with some baking soda used like cleanser. Test on a similar piece from the scrap bin to get a feel for it. I recycle the baking soda used to keep the refrigerator fresh however my kids saw me do that and now I have competition as they like it better than using Comet or Ajax on their fancy pots and pans. Not a bad idea, I have some baking soda in the fridge. So basically a dry polish? No liquid at all, just the baking soda and rag? The only thing on my exhaust that's not rusted is the little shield and the cover near the end. I'm not going to put much more money into this scooter and next year may be my last with it. It's been around the block quite a few times. I'll probably just put it off to the side after next fall. I just want the rust off the exhaust. Not sure about anything else yet or about painting it. Works more aggressively wet and depends on the situation along with your preference at the time. The wet could even be WD40 if that's more appropriate to the job at hand, just don't blow away the soda in a cloud of dust. |
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Post by rockynv on Nov 16, 2016 8:31:43 GMT -5
Many find that on a 250 staying with the stock weight on the sliders works out well as the wedge shape of the slider will close the variator up tighter than the roller will unless your belt is too short or the clutch sheaves are sticking and won't open up all the way. Some find that the belt is too short so that it bottoms out in the clutch sheave and there's no belt slack left to allow the variator to close up all the way while others with a clutch that sticks and won't open up fully limits how far the variator can close up limiting top speed also. If the belt is too long it will allow the variator to close but won't open the clutch all the way again limiting top speed. A belt that's too wide can behave the same as one that's too short and one that's too narrow like one that's too long even if technically its too short.
Its all a balancing act of roller/slider weight, belt length/width and clutch contra spring strength. Some find if they get too aggressive with the roller/slider weight that they close up the variator/shift into high gear too soon so that they are no longer in the engines optimum torque range losing acceleration and top speed like trying to shift your car from 1st straight to 5th gear at 10 mph and trying to get up to highway speed.
Some make the mistake of trying too many things at once instead of just one thing at a time so it then becomes difficult to pick out what really did not work for example adding heavier weights or sliders to the variator for more top speed and at the same time installing a stiffer contra spring in the clutch which will negate the effect of the weights and possibly leave you with a CVT that is running hotter all the time and eats up belts more quickly.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 16, 2016 8:04:17 GMT -5
Honestly I don't even remember what my exhaust looked like when I got my scoot with 250km on the odometer. Soooo, saturate some rags with vinegar/water (50/50) and wrap them around the exhaust. Follow up by wrapping plastic wrap over the rags to keep them in place. Let it set for several hours or overnight. If the rust doesn't come off as well as in the video, would you use a green scouring pad or a non-scratch dish scrubbing pad? Non-scratch pad or even just a course cloth if the chrome has not blistered and you want to save it. Polish with a rag with some baking soda used like cleanser. Test on a similar piece from the scrap bin to get a feel for it. I recycle the baking soda used to keep the refrigerator fresh however my kids saw me do that and now I have competition as they like it better than using Comet or Ajax on their fancy pots and pans. |
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Post by rockynv on Nov 15, 2016 20:58:22 GMT -5
Yes you have to fresh water rinse with a fine polishing pad or rouge it with baking soda. The Dollar Store variety White Vinegar is much cheaper than any bottled hardware store brand rust remover and just as effective. It also makes for a very environmentally friendly and inexpensive weed killer too. La tee da aren't we the Betty Crocker of the scooter set!!!!!! Not Betty Crocker but Tim the Tool Man or better yet Al Borland (you know the one who gets it done without blowing everyone up, setting them on fire or gluing himself to things) |
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Post by rockynv on Nov 15, 2016 20:54:39 GMT -5
Restore to look like what it is, a nice 50+ mph 2 stroke with maybe a mild not wild tweak to keep it reliable. The racers and tuners all over Europe really seem to love them. Don't rat/bob/etc it.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 15, 2016 20:31:53 GMT -5
Yes you have to fresh water rinse with a fine polishing pad or rouge it with baking soda. The Dollar Store variety White Vinegar is much cheaper than any bottled hardware store brand rust remover and just as effective. It also makes for a very environmentally friendly and inexpensive weed killer too.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 15, 2016 9:48:20 GMT -5
I put function ahead of form and its hard to beat a tall rider with 15" or 16" rims even if it has a shorter wheel base than a bike with the 12" or 13" rims. A bike or a car to me are like a hammer or screwdriver - tools to get a job done and not something to while away the hours looking at. The Aprilia fits in the middle with Euro looks but with enough traditional scooter that it does not look like something Alien from Power Rangers or Transformers Movie however the main factor was that it performed and rode very well along with fit me without modification.
Choose well and you can find a tall rider that takes Metric Cruiser Motorcycle Tires which have deeper tread and more rubber on them so they last longer and are safer than most scooter specific tires especially if you get caught in the rain on the Interstate with the added plus of having a higher temperature/speed rating.
Most do not realize that a tire is only tested to withstand running at its top speed for 10 minutes and that the top speed that its rated at is only 6.5 mph below the speed at which the tire failed the 10 minute test.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 15, 2016 9:07:02 GMT -5
You might be surprised what white vinegar mixed a tad stronger than 50/50 with water can do to clean up rust on something chrome plated so you can clean it up without scratching it before applying the gun coat. Items that are not practical to submerge you can simply wrap in rags soaked with the vinegar mix followed by plastic wrap and let it set for a few hours or overnight.
For those who have not seen how well this can work here's a video:
I have taken chromed parts that my children had dropped under water for a number of years before I found them that looked like they were lost causes and got them cleaned up without destroying the chrome plating using vinegar along with a plastic bristle scrub brush so that all it took was a clear top coat to seal things from rusting again.
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