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Post by magickonyx on Jun 11, 2016 8:04:12 GMT -5
So here is my situation. I just bought this scooter and can't return it because of "original packaging" issues. The first day I bought it it ran beautiful. I put less than 19KH on it and mind you I work night shift. It ran fine. Started right up. was also hot out too. I drive it to work (less than 5 mile drive), and got off 10 hours or so more. Went to start it. It ran high idle to warm up then low idled and when I went to give it has it died. Wouldn't start back up. Found out it was a loose clamp connecting the air intake and back of the carburetor. Ran fine again. Let it sit and in the morning wouldn't start. Would start here and there after shooting the throttle about 5 times then tried to start and it turned over for a few seconds then died. So I drained carburetor float and refilled and nothing. Next day it was hot out and swapped the older carburetor from another scooter that's been sitting for a while and fire and ran perfect. I drive it to work and bought starting fluid and this morning wouldn't stay running even after holding throttle less than 1/4 of the way. Still died! I can't get the screws off the new carburetor choke enriched because it's so badly stripped now. There is also a white paint marking on this one which is weird.
Now what I don't understand is both carburetors have different choke enrichers and still the SAME issue. This scooter has less than 30 KM and will not run like it should. It's maybe 40-50°F in the morning and it's still happening. But lately in the day it's over 80°F. I don't understand at all. I can return the product because I don't have the metal frame it was shipped in, and the stupid part is because I used it, if I did have the frame, there would be a deduction because of "use and damage" and especially to the new carburetor. What's stupid is in order for me to know it wasn't working like it should I had to use it. It does have factory oil and normally it should be replaced but it's only in the morning where its colder. Could the engine be too thick to keep it running but even under throttle use it won't stay. As I try to start I am giving some gas with pumps and it will turn over once and that's it. Please someone help because I am so lost.. Oh I did name him Bruce by the way.
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Post by crawford on Jun 11, 2016 10:53:24 GMT -5
Are you using high test gas?
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Post by magickonyx on Jun 12, 2016 4:15:12 GMT -5
Are you using high test gas? I'm using premium gasoline at  octane I believe it is here. |
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Post by crawford on Jun 12, 2016 15:57:00 GMT -5
check intake for leaks or being loose, I believe the intake is made of molded rubber is so take it off and look at it closely, for cracks if it has a spacer under carburetor. Check it also if it had it did you leave it off?
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Post by lain on Jun 14, 2016 6:05:43 GMT -5
Your valves are getting tight, readjust them.
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Post by magickonyx on Jun 15, 2016 4:36:16 GMT -5
Your valves are getting tight, readjust them. this would make sense since in the colder time it's maybe too loose since its shrinking? This is only happening in the morning. It was just getting cooler the last time I tried it from my driveway. I luckily have a timing gauge. If I'm not mistaken it's typically set for .009? I hadn't thought of this and it would make sense! Thank you! If I can get time to test it, I'm about to be working 11 nights straight. I must come prepared. But this would help tremendously. |
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Post by lain on Jun 15, 2016 4:57:55 GMT -5
No that's way too large. For 50cc I set to 0.004 inch gap for both, or 0.003 in and 0.004 ex, but no larger than 0.005 max and no smaller than 0.003 for best results and intake gap always has to be the same or smaller than exhaust gap. Only adjust valve gaps when the engine is COLD, like you haven't attempted to start it at all and haven't run it for at least 4-5 hours.
Sometimes, for some reason, they don 't check it at the factory. I helped a friend who just bought a scooter with the same issue, turned out to be the gaps were horribly off like they didn't even attempt to adjust them at the factory.
You already checked the carb, and I'm guessing the electrical stuff was all put back into the correct places, so there really isn't much other spots to check.
I wonder though how do you know if you have spark or not if you aren't removing the spark plug and holding it to the case while cranking? Just assuming because you can see gas in the carb?
The temp of the day shouldn't effect the scooter much unless somethign is horribly/not adjusted lol... I've ridden for an entire 16 hours straight on my scooter in above 100 degrees, they are not going to break down from heat or lack of. I've also ridden my scooters in as low as -15 degrees (with like 10 layers on lookin like the michelin man), as long as you tune yoru scooter correctly and maintain it it should start and run great in any weather really.
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Post by magickonyx on Jun 15, 2016 16:31:25 GMT -5
No that's way too large. For 50cc I set to 0.004 inch gap for both, or 0.003 in and 0.004 ex, but no larger than 0.005 max and no smaller than 0.003 for best results and intake gap always has to be the same or smaller than exhaust gap. Only adjust valve gaps when the engine is COLD, like you haven't attempted to start it at all and haven't run it for at least 4-5 hours. Sometimes, for some reason, they don 't check it at the factory. I helped a friend who just bought a scooter with the same issue, turned out to be the gaps were horribly off like they didn't even attempt to adjust them at the factory. You already checked the carb, and I'm guessing the electrical stuff was all put back into the correct places, so there really isn't much other spots to check. I wonder though how do you know if you have spark or not if you aren't removing the spark plug and holding it to the case while cranking? Just assuming because you can see gas in the carb? The temp of the day shouldn't effect the scooter much unless somethign is horribly/not adjusted lol... I've ridden for an entire 16 hours straight on my scooter in above 100 degrees, they are not going to break down from heat or lack of. I've also ridden my scooters in as low as -15 degrees (with like 10 layers on lookin like the michelin man), as long as you tune yoru scooter correctly and maintain it it should start and run great in any weather really. Okay I was wondering. I really hope this is what's going on. Yeah my second scooter I had I would drive in about 15°F but I had to keep putting WD-40 on my throttle cable because as I drove it would freeze in place. I think they do that because they don't have time and want to push out as many sales as possible even though things are defective. Those valves should have been the first thing I checked. I have to admit though, it must be my transmission because this 50cc has slightly less HP than my older scooter and I can feel it pulling me at full throttle. I think so many miles destroyed my older engine. I tried running fuel injector cleaner every 5-10 tank fill ups on my older scooter to try and get the carbon off. I bought a new replacement engine for that and it doesn't want to stay running because the carburetor sat with gas in it for so long. I slapped it in my newer scooter and it fired right up lol. There goes $400 |
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Post by lain on Jun 15, 2016 18:03:17 GMT -5
No that's way too large. For 50cc I set to 0.004 inch gap for both, or 0.003 in and 0.004 ex, but no larger than 0.005 max and no smaller than 0.003 for best results and intake gap always has to be the same or smaller than exhaust gap. Only adjust valve gaps when the engine is COLD, like you haven't attempted to start it at all and haven't run it for at least 4-5 hours. Sometimes, for some reason, they don 't check it at the factory. I helped a friend who just bought a scooter with the same issue, turned out to be the gaps were horribly off like they didn't even attempt to adjust them at the factory. You already checked the carb, and I'm guessing the electrical stuff was all put back into the correct places, so there really isn't much other spots to check. I wonder though how do you know if you have spark or not if you aren't removing the spark plug and holding it to the case while cranking? Just assuming because you can see gas in the carb? The temp of the day shouldn't effect the scooter much unless somethign is horribly/not adjusted lol... I've ridden for an entire 16 hours straight on my scooter in above 100 degrees, they are not going to break down from heat or lack of. I've also ridden my scooters in as low as -15 degrees (with like 10 layers on lookin like the michelin man), as long as you tune yoru scooter correctly and maintain it it should start and run great in any weather really. Okay I was wondering. I really hope this is what's going on. Yeah my second scooter I had I would drive in about 15°F but I had to keep putting WD-40 on my throttle cable because as I drove it would freeze in place. I think they do that because they don't have time and want to push out as many sales as possible even though things are defective. Those valves should have been the first thing I checked. I have to admit though, it must be my transmission because this 50cc has slightly less HP than my older scooter and I can feel it pulling me at full throttle. I think so many miles destroyed my older engine. I tried running fuel injector cleaner every 5-10 tank fill ups on my older scooter to try and get the carbon off. I bought a new replacement engine for that and it doesn't want to stay running because the carburetor sat with gas in it for so long. I slapped it in my newer scooter and it fired right up lol. There goes $400 Your throttle cable might be snagged or bent too much causing it to freeze up. I've bent a cable once while getting frustrated dealing with loads of plastics hitting me in the face, haha, ended up feeding some lithium grease down the cable from the top and wd40 to chase it down, never had a problem with it snagging again and felt smoother than before. |
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Post by magickonyx on Jun 16, 2016 4:17:27 GMT -5
Yeah that damn plastic sucks. If I ever get one like that made of it I would see to try and replace the frame with a metal but that would be probably impossible. I hate how the pins are barely on there. Like one little brush of air and it's lost under the floor board. OH GOD ALWAYS. Thanks for being so helpful, I thankfully and hopefully don't have to contact these people again. Other than the speedometer getting replaced if this fixes it I don't know how happy I would be. Maybe this was a sign that I need to get better at mechanical repairing. The GY6 is so ollllld there's gotta be some better technology out there.
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Post by lain on Jun 16, 2016 8:12:10 GMT -5
Yeah that damn plastic sucks. If I ever get one like that made of it I would see to try and replace the frame with a metal but that would be probably impossible. I hate how the pins are barely on there. Like one little brush of air and it's lost under the floor board. OH GOD ALWAYS. Thanks for being so helpful, I thankfully and hopefully don't have to contact these people again. Other than the speedometer getting replaced if this fixes it I don't know how happy I would be. Maybe this was a sign that I need to get better at mechanical repairing. The GY6 is so ollllld there's gotta be some better technology out there. In my experience most mechanics are mediocre, they often learn what they need to once then never update thier knowledge ever again. I was was called in to help a shop once because their head mechanic accepted a scooter that needed a belt changed in the transmission, he ended up torquing it so tight he tore the crank apart... He told me to use his impact wrench, with a bigarse tank the size of a car and It old him "no... noo... haha.... this is why you broke it in the first place" and he told me "but this works on all the cars I work on" and I'm like "this is not a car..." Whenever you get into something like this you want to try to get to know the mechanic a little bit if you can, talk to him see if he's giving you a confidence routine or if he's talking from experience and knowledge. Mechanics who work on cars CAN most DEF fix scooters, but they need to know a few things before they go trying to adapt their car knowledge because certain things are different such as torque specs, which goes to show you should try to be careful when handing your precious ride over to someone you barely know. |
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Post by magickonyx on Jun 18, 2016 11:49:47 GMT -5
That's really messed up. I can't believe someone would do that. Man I would loved to have seen a picture of that poor crank shaft lol.
I checked my timing and I didn't know the smallest gauge I have goes down to .008. But it's tighter than that. There's still a good amount of wobble so the timing is fine. My only guess know is something on the carburetor that has to do with cool startin other than the enricher. I noticed a peg in the back with a rubber cover around this rod. It can only push down a bit but goes to the bottom of the carburetor. It's attached to a spring that uses a long piece of plastic I think that looks like it pushes pressure against the throttle. I showed my dad and he said it could be the cold start choke too. I'm not sure how these are built entirely but it's worth a shot. I started working on it at 6:30am and it wouldn't start, then 9:30 came around and it fires right up. It's not like I can keep it running because it doesn't start for even a few rounds unless I shoot gas in. I'm getting a replacement carburetor in the mail hopefully soon, if this doesn't work I don't know what else from here.
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Post by lain on Jun 19, 2016 6:38:40 GMT -5
That's really messed up. I can't believe someone would do that. Man I would loved to have seen a picture of that poor crank shaft lol. I checked my timing and I didn't know the smallest gauge I have goes down to .008. But it's tighter than that. There's still a good amount of wobble so the timing is fine. My only guess know is something on the carburetor that has to do with cool startin other than the enricher. I noticed a peg in the back with a rubber cover around this rod. It can only push down a bit but goes to the bottom of the carburetor. It's attached to a spring that uses a long piece of plastic I think that looks like it pushes pressure against the throttle. I showed my dad and he said it could be the cold start choke too. I'm not sure how these are built entirely but it's worth a shot. I started working on it at 6:30am and it wouldn't start, then 9:30 came around and it fires right up. It's not like I can keep it running because it doesn't start for even a few rounds unless I shoot gas in. I'm getting a replacement carburetor in the mail hopefully soon, if this doesn't work I don't know what else from here. .008 is still too large, you don't want too much space, tight gaps are bad, and cause overheating, but too loose and the tappets get worn down and round off and shorten which makes the gaps even larger... however it should run at that, though you want to change it soon to 0.003 to 0.005 max. It might also make loud tapping noise which may be annoying... You shouldn't push the enricher in, it doesn't go that way. It extends due to heat expansion. There is wax in the enricher that expands when it is heated up and pushes the needle out, and a hole under the needle that get blocked when the needle extends enough to cover it. Usually takes about 30 seconds to 2 minutes to kick in fully depending on how old and used it is. If the only way to get it running is to squirt gas into it then that points to the carb, the fuel line, or possibly the petcock, but most likely the carb. Did it look slimey or dirty when you looked in it? Could just need a cleaning. |
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Post by magickonyx on Jun 19, 2016 7:34:26 GMT -5
I didn't look at it. But both the old and new carburetor is doing the same thing. I could put the new carburetor back on but the fuel line is DEFINTLY working. I can tell because I didn't think this throughly that gravity exists and when I unplugged the carb at almost a full tank of fuel went everywhere and down my hands. Gasoline feels colder on skin which is weird. Just the evaporation I guess lol. I'm waiting on a replacement carburetor and speedometer. Haven't heard back yet with the tracking number. It doesn't have the frame mounted petcock it has the tank mounted type.
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Post by magickonyx on Jul 1, 2016 6:38:56 GMT -5
So I found the issue! If I take the fuel tank cap off and start it it will run like normal. Weird. But I've noticed one time taking the fuel like off the carburetor with less than half a tank no fuel came out. Of the line even. All vacuum lines and stuff are hooked up and it's even got a replacement carburetor on it too. Still weirded out.
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octane I believe it is here.
