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Post by dmartin95 on Jun 16, 2015 13:29:35 GMT -5
Here, very soon I'm getting ready to make a video about stroker crankshafts.
I have in stock Taida's entire line-up for the GY6. +8.8, +6, +3.5 & +3. I also have the Hoca 2.5, NCY 2.2 and 3 different "Refires" Taiwan manufactured cranks - +6, +4 and +3....
Now, when you use a stroker, there's lot's of things to consider... Will you need a spacer? Does this effect cam height and will new chain be required? Where do I get extended chain guides? What fits without a spacer? What about extended Dowels pins to connect the cylinder to the block?
These are all questions I had in the beginning and these are questions that are constantly tossed my way... But before I make this video series, I want to make it as helpful as I can and want to try and cover as much as I can. So, If you have ever been curious about strokers and have a question, toss it my way.
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Post by JerryScript on Jun 16, 2015 14:41:58 GMT -5
Where to find one for my 16" wheeled scooter! LOL
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Post by pistonguy on Jun 17, 2015 10:39:20 GMT -5
The Cranks on a Truing Stand with Duel Dial Indicators showing there within spec.
A Mock build of the top end (no rings on piston) showing if the Piston is down in the Whole or out of the whole.
A measurement could be made to know what thickness of spacer needs to be made, will have to account for the thickness of two base gaskets.
Measure the Side (how too) clearance of the Conn rod.
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Post by cyborg on Jun 17, 2015 13:28:33 GMT -5
Yes measurements all around,, including axial play
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Post by dmartin95 on Jun 17, 2015 14:14:21 GMT -5
The Cranks on a Truing Stand with Duel Dial Indicators showing there within spec. A Mock build of the top end (no rings on piston) showing if the Piston is down in the Whole or out of the whole. A measurement could be made to know what thickness of spacer needs to be made, will have to account for the thickness of two base gaskets. Measure the Side (how too) clearance of the Conn rod. Hi Pistonguy, thanks for your excellent suggestions! I do have a truing stand but you're talking about a lot of time. I have 9 crankshafts to demonstrate in about 10~20 minute window. I have the manufacturer specs and even the blueprints/mechanical drawings for the Taida cranks and can provide info from the manufacturer. I would like to do it, just don't think I'll have time.... The mock build - You will get your request for that one. I'm cutting out a cylinder and will illustrate both, the up and down stroke... So often you see people talking about shaving the top of the piston, deeper valleys for the valves, but when you go anything large than 3.5mm, your piston will collide with the crank at BDC. The 157QMJ has enough space for a 2.5+mm stroker. Of course you would have to use a high compression Piston but short of that, no machine work is required... You can use 3 and 3.5 with machine work and no spacer, but 4, 6.6 and 8.8 all require spacer or larger (taller) cylinders and the piston still requires machine for the down stroke. Standard cylinder height is 68.8, Taida makes 69.3 and and 75.2mm tall cylinders so you don't have to use a spacer. I am not a fan of spacers and doubt I would ever use one in a build for myself. In addition, they do machine the pistons (free of charge) if you buy a complete kit. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Jun 17, 2015 14:26:48 GMT -5
Where to find one for my 16" wheeled scooter! LOL Out of all the motors I've had, I have not had the opportunity to examine a 16" 157QMJ.... I do know the crank is different, but I think if you change your variator and clutch, you can use a stroker. I think the only difference is shaft length and spline count.... But that's just going off info I found on the web... I really wish I could get my hands on a 16" motor. |
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Post by pistonguy on Jun 17, 2015 15:48:08 GMT -5
The Cranks on a Truing Stand with Duel Dial Indicators showing there within spec. A Mock build of the top end (no rings on piston) showing if the Piston is down in the Whole or out of the whole. A measurement could be made to know what thickness of spacer needs to be made, will have to account for the thickness of two base gaskets. Measure the Side (how too) clearance of the Conn rod. Hi Pistonguy, thanks for your excellent suggestions! I do have a truing stand but you're talking about a lot of time. I have 9 crankshafts to demonstrate in about 10~20 minute window. I have the manufacturer specs and even the blueprints/mechanical drawings for the Taida cranks and can provide info from the manufacturer. I would like to do it, just don't think I'll have time... The mock build - You will get your request for that one. I'm cutting out a cylinder and will illustrate both, the up and down stroke... So often you see people talking about shaving the top of the piston, deeper valleys for the valves, but when you go anything large than 3.5mm, your piston will collide with the crank at BDC. The 157QMJ has enough space for a 2.5+mm stroker. Of course you would have to use a high compression Piston but short of that, no machine work is required... You can use 3 and 3.5 with machine work and no spacer, but 4, 6.6 and 8.8 all require spacer or larger (taller) cylinders and the piston still requires machine for the down stroke. Standard cylinder height is 68.8, Taida makes 69.3 and and 75.2mm tall cylinders so you don't have to use a spacer. I am not a fan of spacers and doubt I would ever use one in a build for myself. In addition, they do machine the pistons (free of charge) if you buy a complete kit. Couple question's Why on th 157qmj with a +2.5mm Stroke does it Require a High Compression Piston? And the High Comp Piston do you have Dome Volume numbers? And who is they as in If my piston needs Machined i.e. Dome/ valve reliefs? Ive looked at the Tiada products on line and they appear to be superior product to the rest of the 4th world mfg quality I've seen but the Tiada 61mm Forged piston raises suspicions that this is not a true Forging, I zoom in on the side of the piston there is bumpy texture/appearance, strange, now I know these are most likely acid dipped for ascetics but a true Forging will be as smooth as a Prom Queens Thighs. curious. At $89.99 this is a true forging price. hope its for real. Very cool you have the prints but whats on paper and the finished can be two different things. Id like to see the cylinder heights are for real. I'm curios and not trying to be confrontational. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Jun 17, 2015 19:36:11 GMT -5
Why on th 157qmj with a +2.5mm Stroke does it Require a High Compression Piston? And the High Comp Piston do you have Dome Volume numbers? And who is they as in If my piston needs Machined i.e. Dome/ valve reliefs? Ive looked at the Tiada products on line and they appear to be superior product to the rest of the 4th world mfg quality I've seen but the Tiada 61mm Forged piston raises suspicions that this is not a true Forging, I zoom in on the side of the piston there is bumpy texture/appearance, strange, now I know these are most likely acid dipped for ascetics but a true Forging will be as smooth as a Prom Queens Thighs. curious. At $89.99 this is a true forging price. hope its for real. Very cool you have the prints but whats on paper and the finished can be two different things. Id like to see the cylinder heights are for real. I'm curios and not trying to be confrontational. The 2.5mm will not require a High Compression piston. I meant to say Forged... I was just thinking high compression motor while I was typing because I was talking about the 2.5mm and it virtually eliminates all the squish... Just a brain fart.... You're correct, Taida products are superior to the rest. NASRA is the proof. In addition to Taida motors smashing the competition, they even make race categories for the 230cc range (which the 232cc is a Taida engine)... First place has gone to GY6store using Taida Race engines. Taida parts are used worldwide to build the best scooter race engines out on the market. With me being a Taida distributor, that might just sound like a sales pitch, but it's not. The race results speak for themselves. As far as Taida selling "fake" forging, I'm not really going to entertain that idea. I am friends with Taida engineers, chief US marketer and a boat load of their of their sales staff. They take great pride in their work and would find even the insinuation insulting. I can however take an extremely high resolution picture of a Taida Forged piston and let you examine the pic to alleviate any concerns you may have. Also, I have both styles of Taidas taller cylinders. I can provide a picture of the cylinder height you would like. I have personally measured them and they are as stated. I didn't take your post as confrontational. You've had great questions and suggestions so far. |
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Post by pistonguy on Jun 17, 2015 20:10:05 GMT -5
Hmm. Curiosity Then why does the +2.5 stroke require a Forging? Virtually eliminates the squish, How tight is the Squish then? gy6store.com/images/14093079575371989825926.jpegI look at a close magnified side view of this 61mm piece and I still question. I would not know for sure unless I hold one of these in my hands and cut it in half. There are others ways to mfg. pistons other than a Casting or Forging. I'm not here to insult anyone, Im sure they have great pride in the quality of there product. But I will say what it is even if it is my own CEO. Thanks for taking the time to address my questions. |
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Post by pistonguy on Jun 18, 2015 6:09:09 GMT -5
Ok, with a open mind I have studied the images of this piston under magnification.
A Forging Die is highly polished thus the Slug coming out is smooth.
This is a Squeeze Casting or sometimes loosely known as Liquid Metal Forging.
Liquid Metal is poured into a mold and as it solidifies, pressure (low) is used to form the component
Pressure is significantly lower than a True Forging.
The Molecular structure is not even close to that of a Forging.
The Molecules of a Forging Align themselves with the Features of the component and is known as
"Feature Aligned Grain Flow"
For a MFG. to label this component as "Forged" is technically wrong and yes it is Fake and Misleading.
And Shame on the Technicians, Retailers, Wholesalers, Distributor's for Not Knowing what there looking at.
But this seems to be the norm with all these aftermarket mfg.'s components.
Sleeves Cast off center, Bores, Perfect Circles off Center, Big Valve heads with Stock size seats.
100% Genuine Fake.
Now the above being said there is Nothing Wrong with the Piston that I can see.
Better than a pure casting but not even close to a Forging.
Ok, On with the video!
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Post by dmartin95 on Jun 18, 2015 7:58:29 GMT -5
I will ask what type of forging process they use.
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Post by cyborg on Jun 18, 2015 8:19:47 GMT -5
Not to throw gas on the fire but i've run wiseco and venoila forged pistons,,pistondude is correct this is a squeeze casting,,,there would never be this granular look
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Post by dmartin95 on Jun 18, 2015 8:59:13 GMT -5
Not to throw gas on the fire but i've run wiseco and venoila forged pistons,,pistondude is correct this is a squeeze casting,,,there would never be this granular look  ? There is no fire.... Am i missing something here? Pistonguy makes the disclaimer he's not trying to be confrontational and you say you don't want to add fuel to fire... This isn't an argument or even a debate. With a name like pistonguy, I'm wagering he's a piston aficionado and likely knows his stuff. If he has valuable input, it will be accepted as such. It is also why I shot off an email to Taida's tech team. By this time tomorrow, we will know what forging process they use... |
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Post by cyborg on Jun 18, 2015 9:52:11 GMT -5
I'm not trying to make any beef at all,,,and find you to be one of the most knowledgable guys on any of the scooter forums,,,your builds are excellent and so are your videos,,,it's a he11 of alot more than i've been doing lately,,,Pistonguy is in the industry and works with some of the most prestigious racing teams ,,,from f-1 moto to superbike to nascar,,,he is the piston guru,,,so if i offended you i'm sorry,,, that was not my intent
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Post by dmartin95 on Jun 18, 2015 9:58:59 GMT -5
I'm not trying to make any beef at all,,,and find you to be one of the most knowledgable guys on any of the scooter forums,,,your builds are excellent and so are your videos,,,it's a he11 of alot more than i've been doing lately,,,Pistonguy is in the industry and works with some of the most prestigious racing teams ,,,from f-1 moto to superbike to nascar,,,he is the piston guru,,,so if i offended you i'm sorry,,, that was not my intent No Cyborg, I'm not offended at all, or in any way.... That was in fact the basis of my last reply, I'm struggling to understand why pistonguy thought I would take his post as confrontational and why you think you may have offended me in some way.... You're one of my favorite poster I enjoy talking to... You have never, in any way, shape or form offended me and I think your one of the coolest members we have. |
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