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Post by lain on Apr 27, 2015 1:16:00 GMT -5
So as you may already know I have been looking around for a new belt. This is due to the fact that I was already on my backup belt when I noticed some additional wear on it after switching to a new clutch with 1k springs. I am using 8g weights and everything seems fine, but it seems when I am riding at higher speeds I feel the belt is rubbing against the inside of the case around the variator because I found a large deposit of belt dust all around the variator on the case, and only a few days after installing the new clutch.
I am no pro to the transmission, I have a good understanding of it, but I feel it may still be lacking. I do not fully understand the weights but I feel that because I am using a clutch with 1k springs on a 100ccBBK that I may need to change to lighter weights to prevent the belt from riding that high?
I currently have 8.5, 8, and 5g weights. Could I mix 5g with 8g weights or is that too drastic of a difference?
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 27, 2015 3:48:15 GMT -5
I do not like to mix weights that far apart . I feel that the variator may not work as smooth and as good as having either the same size weights all around or at the most 2 grams apart . further I went has been 2 grams apart.
The weights help hold and pull the belt up the variator. Yes the belt drops in the variator and allows the extra belt slack , but the tension on the belt from the variator weights helps open the clutch pulley . rpms and belt tensions opens the clutch pulley. If the weights are heavy enough they will keep tension on the belt and keep wanting to drive the belt higher. As the belt gets slightly higher. The tension mixed with rpms opens the clutch pulley . as long as the belt has enough tension on it the belt will want to rise , raising rpms on the clutch pulley " by ratio change " . at some point with lighter weights, the rpms need to pull the belt up and create higher rpms at the clutch are too much , since we don't want to run the scoots that high above redline we have to use heavier weights to achieve the amount of tension on the belt .
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Post by ramblinman on Apr 27, 2015 4:58:23 GMT -5
as i said in your other thread i haven't had this problem nor have i researched it. so with that said here are my thoughts:
what size belt are you using? is it the same as before? i would use a tape measure and get an accurate measurement.
it seems the belt might be too big. could have stretched or might have been too long from day 1... assuming everything else is fine then i would try to find a smaller belt.
that's all i got for now, if i stumble on some new information i'll post a link.
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Post by lain on Apr 27, 2015 10:09:30 GMT -5
Not sure what your ramblin about ramblinman... I changed the clutch, not the belt. Yes the belt is a little old but it is not worn out and not super long either, it is the right size and has been for months. Belts don't cause belts to ride up the variator after changing to a clutch with a lighter counter spring, that is just silly. geh3333 How does the CVT look like when going downhill? I can feel the belt rubbing up at high speeds downhill. I have been trying to find out how the clutch and variator work when going downhill, but have been unable to find any info on it. |
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Post by phatboy on Apr 27, 2015 13:01:43 GMT -5
I might take off the cover and put the scoot on the center stand, run it high speed and observe where the belt may be rubbing, if nothing else you can see first hand the belt behavior and troubleshoot
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Post by onewheeldrive on Apr 27, 2015 13:52:12 GMT -5
Sounds like belt slappage. It could be the big spring in the clutch. Weak spring.
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Post by lain on Apr 27, 2015 14:09:22 GMT -5
Sounds like belt slappage. It could be the big spring in the clutch. Weak spring. I think so too. The spring and clutch are brand new, the pads hadn't even been broken in yet really. They are light 1k springs. I have been experimenting with weights, using 5g weights makes me do the opposite, where I seem to be slapping when taking off and I miss the curve to pickup speed and end up just revving without much power till I slow it down and just gradually speed up. I am thinking maybe if I get 6.5 weights it would be in the middle of the two outcomes so far and would work better. |
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Post by onewheeldrive on Apr 27, 2015 14:33:44 GMT -5
Sounds like belt slappage. It could be the big spring in the clutch. Weak spring. I think so too. The spring and clutch are brand new, the pads hadn't even been broken in yet really. They are light 1k springs. I have been experimenting with weights, using 5g weights makes me do the opposite, where I seem to be slapping when taking off and I miss the curve to pickup speed and end up just revving without much power till I slow it down and just gradually speed up. I am thinking maybe if I get 6.5 weights it would be in the middle of the two outcomes so far and would work better. I don't think it has to do with the weight of your rollers. Your belt isn't going to slap directly over the variator, at least I can't see that happening. I don't think it's a matter of how high the belt rides on the variator is all. Something else has to be causing it, imo, and there really isn't much to choose from. You would be able to see it with the cover off and running. |
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Post by lain on Apr 27, 2015 14:36:31 GMT -5
I think so too. The spring and clutch are brand new, the pads hadn't even been broken in yet really. They are light 1k springs. I have been experimenting with weights, using 5g weights makes me do the opposite, where I seem to be slapping when taking off and I miss the curve to pickup speed and end up just revving without much power till I slow it down and just gradually speed up. I am thinking maybe if I get 6.5 weights it would be in the middle of the two outcomes so far and would work better. I don't think it has to do with the weight of your rollers. Your belt isn't going to slap directly over the variator, at least I can't see that happening. I don't think it's a matter of how high the belt rides on the variator is all. Something else has to be causing it, imo, and there really isn't much to choose from. You would be able to see it with the cover off and running. I would have tried to do it with the cover off if it weren't for my CVT being one of those that are only designed to start with the case on. The case provides the hold for the bendix so it isn't just going all over the place, and there's no safe way to take the case off with it running. |
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Post by onewheeldrive on Apr 27, 2015 14:46:42 GMT -5
I'm aware we have the same engine. That also could be what your belt is rubbing on. Does the starter bendix have the bushing in the case?
There are a few ways to start these engines with the case off. I've seen it to where they wired the bendix in place. Yes, holding the bendix with your finger isn't exactly safe, but I've done it before.
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Post by lain on Apr 27, 2015 15:37:31 GMT -5
I'm aware we have the same engine. That also could be what your belt is rubbing on. Does the starter bendix have the bushing in the case? There are a few ways to start these engines with the case off. I've seen it to where they wired the bendix in place. Yes, holding the bendix with your finger isn't exactly safe, but I've done it before. I tried holding the end of the bendix with a socket with the bushing put into the socket. I could get it started but I can't do anything but hold the bendix. I have an old CVT case with the bendix part still in good shape, is there a way to cut the case so I can maybe cut the bendix holding part off to use? I've got a dremel, but I don't have a metal cutting wheel and am unsure if a dremel could even cut these cases? |
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Post by phatboy on Apr 27, 2015 16:02:50 GMT -5
Hmmm, could a power drill on the variator nut start it?
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Post by lain on Apr 27, 2015 16:07:52 GMT -5
Hmmm, could a power drill on the variator nut start it? Don't have one. I would think a long strip of rubber or something around the outer variator ramp would start it, but I don't have that either. I will look into cutting wheels for my dremel and see if I can cut up my old cvt case to have just the bendix portion and a couple bolt spots. |
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Post by onewheeldrive on Apr 27, 2015 16:35:48 GMT -5
Lain- take the bendix out, put the cover back on, kick it, then take the cover back off and look.
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Post by ramblinman on Apr 27, 2015 16:52:56 GMT -5
Not sure what your ramblin about ramblinman... I changed the clutch, not the belt. Yes the belt is a little old but it is not worn out and not super long either, it is the right size and has been for months. Belts don't cause belts to ride up the variator after changing to a clutch with a lighter counter spring, that is just silly. you can say i'm silly all you want but the fact is the belt can't ride outside the variator unless the belt is too big. so either you're mistaken about where the belt is hitting the cover or your belt is too big. sure you might beable to solve it with a stiffer spring so the belt doesn't open the clutch all the way. but whatever, my comment wasn't silly... it's impossible to rub the case at the variator if the belt is the right size. now if the belt is flapping around and hitting inbetween the variator and clutch then it's a whole different story. |
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