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Post by scooter on Oct 15, 2014 22:45:48 GMT -5
OK, makes sense. But aren't I losing a lot of potential power? If I read the graphs correctly, the power drops off pretty significantly going from, say, 7500 down to the low 6k's (looks to be about a 13% drop off). Have no need to get to a higher speed - this little scoot (200 lbs about) does not have a suspension safe at 65 - not even at 60 if there is anything other than smooth pavement. But I WOULD like to have a bit more reserve power to get to desired speed more quickly, or to hill climb w/o losing as much speed. These control shims from scootertuning.ca, will widen your variator, lowering your belt, increasing your rpms. It should make hill climbing better, and at top end you will have to run higher rpms to get the same top speed you have now. The shims are very thin, 0.012" to 0.031", and will allow you to fine tune your rpms. scootertuning.ca/fr/variators/31037-variocontrol-special-top-performances-10-03-05-08mm-for-15mm-taper.htmlI will also add that I just put some Dr Pulley 8g sliders in my scoot and measured the plate/roller/ramp sheave assembly. The new assembly measures .010" less than the roller assembly when the rollers/sliders are at the bottom, meaning my belt radius should drop 0.020"*, increasing off the line torque, BUT, from what I can read of the "marker test", the DrPulley sliders raised the belt radius at top end by about 0.075". That's a huge jump that will lower top end rpm, but also pushes the limits of the engine's ability to move the bike faster. (I'm geared about as high as I can be without losing top end speed.) This setup is giving me 7500rpm@55mph and 6800rpm@WOT(at35mph**).These weights with this current variator are in my sweet zone, as I do most of my driving at 55-60mph. The acceleration rpms rise so fast that the digital tach struggles to keep up. *(I've been rounding to 2, but I think the actual number is 1.865 units of belt rise or fall per 1 unit change in width between pulleys.) **( I chose 35mph at random because the WOT rpms rise, the faster I go, so I had to pick something to use as a baseline to compare different variator setups. I have been using MPH@7500rpm, WOT-RPM@35MPH, and RPM@top-speed as references). Before anyone poo poos the shims, I will leave the following notes. On top end and RPM: Two limiting factors. 1)The first limiting factor is how hard the engine can pull. If the engine is struggling to reach 7500 rpm at top end, then the engine can't handle more load, and making the belt ride even higher, by cutting the boss or unshimming, will actually cause the bike to lose top end. If you are in fifth gear, to use an analogy, and you can barely keep the rpm up to 7500, then shifting into sixth gear is going to lose you even more rpms and speed. 2)The second limiting factor is redlining. If you are struggling at 55mph@7500, and you lower the belt, by widening the variator with shims, your rpms will go up. You will now be able to go faster BUT your rpms will go higher, and you have to decide how many rpms you think the engine can take. Let's say you moved to 55mph@8000rpm and have more throttle to go. Do you really want to wind the engine up to 9000rpm to go faster? You could, but do you want to risk it? At some point, raising the RPMs won't help any more. Even at full throttle, you'll be geared so low that the engine just can't rev any higher or has blown up. Lowering the RPMs won't help either because you won't have the power to push higher gearing. At this point, you are done tuning your variator with weight and shim exchanges. |
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 16, 2014 8:43:04 GMT -5
scooter With my Hoca Variator no shims are needed as my belt goes all the way to the top and bottom of the pulley. You can only go so low in the pulley before your belt is riding on the engine shaft. After that point, opening your variator more is just a waste.
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Post by alleyoop on Oct 16, 2014 10:54:43 GMT -5
Yep, I poo poo any shims, widening the variator pulley is like getting a belt that is has less width and you will loose top end. Just think about it for a minute what happens after you get a new belt and it wears down, DUH, you loose top end now ask yourself, self why.  But the really bad thing about shimming is now you may not have enough splines for the Pulley Face to grab and that spells big trouble in river city. Dealers will try and sell anything as performance for the mighty buck and unfortunately the unknowing believe the hype and get relieved of some coins.  Hey if your that gullible I have a Beach Front Property In Arizona I Am Willing To Sell Real Cheap  Alleyoop |
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Post by scooter on Oct 16, 2014 16:18:40 GMT -5
scooter With my Hoca Variator no shims are needed as my belt goes all the way to the top and bottom of the pulley. You can only go so low in the pulley before your belt is riding on the engine shaft. After that point, opening your variator more is just a waste. It doesn't get any better than that. No shims for you.  Are you running the 115mm ramp sheave? |
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Post by scooter on Oct 16, 2014 16:21:54 GMT -5
Yep, I poo poo any shims, widening the variator pulley is like getting a belt that is has less width and you will loose top end. Just think about it for a minute what happens after you get a new belt and it wears down, DUH, you loose top end now ask yourself, self why. But the really bad thing about shimming is now you may not have enough splines for the Pulley Face to grab and that spells big trouble in river city. Dealers will try and sell anything as performance for the mighty buck and unfortunately the unknowing believe the hype and get relieved of some coins. Hey if your that gullible I have a Beach Front Property In Arizona I Am Willing To Sell Real Cheap Alleyoop Thank you Alleyoop. I love the beach.  |
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 16, 2014 18:04:37 GMT -5
scooter With my Hoca Variator no shims are needed as my belt goes all the way to the top and bottom of the pulley. You can only go so low in the pulley before your belt is riding on the engine shaft. After that point, opening your variator more is just a waste. It doesn't get any better than that. No shims for you. Are you running the 115mm ramp sheave? I have this variator www.partsforscooters.com/169-24I was fortunate enough that my scoot has a 115mm drive face stock. |
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Post by scooter on Oct 16, 2014 23:31:37 GMT -5
It doesn't get any better than that. No shims for you. Are you running the 115mm ramp sheave? I have this variator www.partsforscooters.com/169-24I was fortunate enough that my scoot has a 115mm drive face stock. Looks nice. From what I've seen, so far, all of the variators have a 115mm drive face. I suppose it's to have a large fan for cooling?  |
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 17, 2014 10:34:38 GMT -5
I guess so. I've been looking at aftermarket ones that have way shorter cooling splines. One thing I'm thinking about doing is trying to lighten the rotating mass off my engine and CVT.. One of the best mods I did on my last car was to install a lighter flywheel. Cutting the rotating mass of an engine allows it to climb it's RPMs faster. Less strain on the motor means more power to the wheels. Since I run an open CVT cover I'm not worried abour cooling.
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..BAD TO THE BONE..