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Post by jasong on May 27, 2014 21:53:00 GMT -5
Hey folks. This is a continuation of my saga with my 2013 Tao Tao 150cc Scoot. My old thread can be found here: itistheride.boards.net/thread/5315/taotao-150cc-problems-start-luggingI was repositioning my pod filter from directly off of the carb to the old air filter tube which curves up and over a brace in the frame. The filter was rubbing on the frame, causing a vibrating sound for weeks. I unscrewed the intake manifold to get the carb up, unattached the pod filter from the carb, attached the old tubing, checked to make sure everything was connected properly, and retightened everything. I started it up, idled fine, went to ride the scooter, got up to 4,000 RPM's and it suddenly lost power and bogged down. It sputtered if I continued to give it gas and I had to turn around. Since then, I've checked everything possible. Removed the intake manifold, carb and filter and reattached it, messed with my air/fuel mix, checked valves (which were off and now are at .004"), put in a new plug, checked that the coil is tight, and I'm still getting the exact same symptom. I had no problems whatsoever prior to moving the air filter, and now I can't get it to go above 30 mph. It seems like I'm missing something terribly obvious but I've checked and rechecked everything. While revving it this afternoon, the carb did start spitting gas out of the overflow and then wouldn't run at idle. I took the carb off, drained it, and checked to make sure the float was moving freely, which it was. Reattached and the same symptoms resulted. The kicker to this whole thing was that it ran perfectly fine prior to me messing with the air filter and I'm baffled. TL:DR - Scooter ran fine, moved air filter, now loses power and bogs down, sputters at WOT above 20 mph. Please help! |
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Post by alleyoop on May 27, 2014 22:17:07 GMT -5
Picture of how the carb and tubing and air filter sits now
Alleyoop
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Post by jasong on May 27, 2014 23:23:47 GMT -5
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Post by alleyoop on May 28, 2014 0:16:34 GMT -5
Ok, first off never put the air filter to the front like that, up front not much air is getting to the filter, also the run it's to long. Take the white piping off and put the Filter on the end of the black tubing and have the filter to either side where ever it has room. The air coming in is not flowing right and creating a lot of turbulence before it reaches the carb and not a nice constant flow of air. You hear the deep throaty sound that tells you it is running to rich not enough air. Alleyoop TO READ WHAT I WROTE CLICK ON THE PICTURE TO MAKE IT BIGGER.  The shorter Vacuum lines to whatever the better:  |
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Post by phatboy on May 28, 2014 1:08:38 GMT -5
if you get gas out the overflow the classic problem is float valve not sealing properly when float is up. you could have a piece of debris on it or its just not sealing right for some reason.
happened to me before i had a sharp peice of debris stuck on the float valve after reattaching the fuel line, normally filters stop stuff getting in but it got contaminated some how. it was on a car but carbs are carbs right?
edited i got terminology wrong
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Post by tvnacman on May 28, 2014 5:57:49 GMT -5
Follow Alleys instructions .
John
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Post by phssthpok on May 28, 2014 7:19:21 GMT -5
...and in case you are wondering just *HOW* the length of intake runner could possible have that much effect on your air/fuel charge, but only manifesting at a certain RPM: www.allpar.com/mopar/sonoramic.html (pertinent info about halfway down beginning under the blue block of text, though the whole article is interesting). If you are inclined, you might even consider doing some experimentation with different lengths of runner to 'fine tune' your optimal desired RPM power point.  |
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Post by jasong on May 28, 2014 7:51:50 GMT -5
Ok, first off never put the air filter to the front like that, up front not much air is getting to the filter, also the run it's to long. Take the white piping off and put the Filter on the end of the black tubing and have the filter to either side where ever it has room. The air coming in is not flowing right and creating a lot of turbulence before it reaches the carb and not a nice constant flow of air. You hear the deep throaty sound that tells you it is running to rich not enough air. Alleyoop TO READ WHAT I WROTE CLICK ON THE PICTURE TO MAKE IT BIGGER. The shorter Vacuum lines to whatever the better: Thanks for all the information. The reason I routed it up there was because the factory air box was in that location, but I'll adjust it based on your notes. The long vacuum line shown was actually an adjustment I made after all of the problems started, but I'll fix it accordingly. When it bogs down, I hear a lot of noise in the head, is that normal for where I should be hearing it manifest? I'll try all of this after work! |
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Post by phatboy on May 28, 2014 14:49:46 GMT -5
im sure the filter location could be better but i think you have another problem if your getting gas leaking out of the carb. i mentioned the bad float valve already.
but now i am wondering, you say you adjusted air/fuel mix, did you turn a screw mounted sideways on the carb or one mounted down. if you turned the one mounted down that's your drain screw, tighten it back up
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Post by jasong on May 28, 2014 15:58:04 GMT -5
I was adjusting the one on the side of the carburetor. As for the spitting, it only did that when I was constantly messing with the adjustments after I had been at it for three hours. The loss of power is the main problem right now, which air seems like it could affect, but I don't think it will totally remedy the problem. I took apart the carb yesterday, see picture above, and everything moved freely and I figured it refilling with gas would flush whatever might have been stuck out. Carb is 2-3 months old.
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Post by jasong on May 28, 2014 20:31:06 GMT -5
Alright. So. I cut the hose like Alley suggested, and shortened the long vacuum tube, and viola! I have an engine. Now, I hear an audible tapping that I'm assuming is my valves? My acceleration still isn't 100% but I think it will clear up with proper adjustments. My valves were just set to .004". Do I open or close to eliminate the tapping?
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Post by alleyoop on May 28, 2014 20:39:36 GMT -5
Good job Jasong,
Normally the best air flow is about a 6-8 extension or right on the carb itself. But if the valves are just TICKING is ok,
Clatter Clatter is to much of a gap. If you want to quite them down bring them both down to .003 inchs.
Alleyoop
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Post by tvnacman on May 28, 2014 21:38:27 GMT -5
Jason I have had a very busy day today , I know I have not been as responsive as normal . Your CDI is showing tracking movement .
you can hear the muffler in the video it was only reved a little above 3000 to show the timing advance .
John
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Post by jasong on May 28, 2014 22:52:27 GMT -5
Good job Jasong, Normally the best air flow is about a 6-8 extension or right on the carb itself. But if the valves are just TICKING is ok, Clatter Clatter is to much of a gap. If you want to quite them down bring them both down to .003 inchs. Alleyoop Gotcha. Yeah I hadn't noticed anything at all before, but when I checked valves yesterday, exhaust was at something like .001, way too close, so it would make sense that I might hear something I hadn't been hearing before. Is the carb tuning guide in the scoot dawg manual the best way? Just adjust the fuel/air mix screw slightly until you find the sweet spot where you can hear/see the rpm's at their best? It doesn't have as much top end as before so I'd like to get it close again. However, it is nice to simply have it running again Once that CDI gets here from John, I'll be in business! |
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Post by jasong on May 28, 2014 22:54:13 GMT -5
Jason I have had a very busy day today , I know I have not been as responsive as normal . Your CDI is showing tracking movement . you can hear the muffler in the video it was only reved a little above 3000 to show the timing advance . John Not a problem! One question I had was about the new jet. If when I'm tuning the carb right now, and I'm not backing out the fuel/air screw all the way, does that mean I don't need to upjet? How does that relationship work between the position it's in now, and how a larger (opening) jet will help? Either way, I'm excited to get everything! That exhaust has my attention now. Is there a picture on your website of it? I'm assuming there's no catalytic converter in it like the stock muffler? Will it pass emissions inspection? |
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
