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Post by toddscoot71 on May 27, 2014 9:27:52 GMT -5
Ok guys, on to the next problem with my scooter (TaoTao EVO 150).
When I apply the front brakes hard and kind of push forward and up on the handbars I get a slight pop sound from the steering stem. I can feel that the upper bearing is moving a little when it does this.
Strange thing is, I just changed the entire fork assembly and put fresh, nicely greased, bearings in it.
After getting it all together and carefully adjusting the bearings still no love. It seems like no matter how tight you get them it still does it.
So, I took everything apart and put a second set of bearings in thinking the first ones might be bad straight from the factory but still no luck. It does it with any combo of bearings and sets of forks.
If I ride the scooter normally and apply both brakes I don't notice a problem. It takes a bit of muscle to get it to do it or a fast stop using front brake only.
Looking at the assembly it appears that it might be possible to move the upper bearing like this with enough force even if they're good. They seem a bit small for a scooter. Heck, they're quite a bit smaller than the headset bearings on my mountain bike.
So, am I chasing after a problem that can't be fixed or am I missing something? Do the larger lower bearings have to settle a bit after putting the forks together with new grease?
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Post by tvnacman on May 27, 2014 10:05:22 GMT -5
I would open it back up and recheck it something is wrong .
John
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Post by toddscoot71 on May 27, 2014 10:24:40 GMT -5
I would open it back up and recheck it something is wrong . John Hrmmm. Yup. I agree. But I've had it torn apart several times now and tried two different sets of new bearings and two different fork assemblies, one being brand new. It has new bearing races pressed in, double checked to make sure they are seated correctly etc... Same exact thing it did when I got the scooter and nothing seems to change it. |
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Post by tvnacman on May 27, 2014 11:14:44 GMT -5
maybe the frame housing is damaged . can you post some pictures .
John
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Post by toddscoot71 on May 27, 2014 11:33:44 GMT -5
maybe the frame housing is damaged . can you post some pictures . John John, I don't think it is but I'll post some pictures when I tear into it again. I just thought of something else and it might be my own stupidity for not checking. I carefully made a note of which way the upper bearing should face when I took it apart the first time. Thinking about it now I think it might have been in there upside down from the factory. I work on bikes a lot and really shouldn't have just assumed they had it right. I guess I won't know for sure until I take it apart. I'll get this thing right eventually. Maybe... |
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Post by toddscoot71 on May 27, 2014 13:20:38 GMT -5
Ok, compared to an old bicycle headset I think the upper bearing might be facing the wrong direction.
Can anyone point me to a photo or exploded view of the steering assembly so I can make sure which way is correct? I can't seem to find a picture anywhere.
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Post by toddscoot71 on May 27, 2014 18:06:47 GMT -5
I just pulled everything apart again. Everything looks perfect. The bearings are all smooth, the races are seated nicely. I don't get it.
I was wrong about the upper bearing possibly being put in wrong. It can only go one way, the wrong way would be very obvious.
It's a mystery. After two new sets of bearings and a new full fork assembly along with inspecting the frame for any damage I'm at a loss. I've spent way too much time chasing stupid stuff on this scooter. I really think I got the one that was assembled on a Friday before a holiday.
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Post by tvnacman on May 27, 2014 19:45:30 GMT -5
let it rest a few days it might be the best thing . any luck with a picture ?
John
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Post by toddscoot71 on May 27, 2014 21:51:48 GMT -5
let it rest a few days it might be the best thing . any luck with a picture ? John LOL. I think you're right. I better let it rest a few days before I do something rash like kick it over. lol I didn't take any pictures. I really don't see anything wrong but maybe after I take a break from it for a while I'll feel like looking at it again and taking a picture without throwing my phone at it. It's SO frustrating. I've never worked on something so irritating in my life. Motorcycles, cars, race karts, etc... Nothing has ever quite infuriated as much as this thing. I'm so close to just parting it out and getting a more expensive scooter but I keep thinking "how hard can it be? just fix the dumb stuff and it'll be great." Yeah right. lol |
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Post by jjoshua20213 on May 28, 2014 2:02:24 GMT -5
The steering column needs to be adjusted and tightened. I had the same problem multiple times. Every time I adjust and tighten the column it goes away.
It keeps coming back because I never tighten it enough. I don't have a wrench big enough and lowes was no help, so it basically hand tight.
Simple easy fix.
If you hear the noise and its tight you need to loosen it and adjust it.
Every time I adjust and tighten I have to push the tire firmly up and screw it tight and it holds.
Ive had the problem before and after replacing the tripple tree and bearings. Only thing in common was the fact it was loose and needed to be adjusted.
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Post by toddscoot71 on May 28, 2014 9:36:36 GMT -5
The steering column needs to be adjusted and tightened. I had the same problem multiple times. Every time I adjust and tighten the column it goes away. It keeps coming back because I never tighten it enough. I don't have a wrench big enough and lowes was no help, so it basically hand tight. Simple easy fix. If you hear the noise and its tight you need to loosen it and adjust it. Every time I adjust and tighten I have to push the tire firmly up and screw it tight and it holds. Ive had the problem before and after replacing the tripple tree and bearings. Only thing in common was the fact it was loose and needed to be adjusted. All good advice. The problem is I've adjusted this until I'm about ready to go nuts. I even have the correct tools. Hook wrench, etc... Too snug, loose, either way it still does the exact same thing. What is funny is that if I sit on the scooter without the brakes on and pull back and forth on the handlebars it's solid as a rock. Same if I put it on the center stand and pull back and forth on the fork legs. No movement at all. It's only if I put the front brake on and push forward very hard (and kind of up) that you feel a little pop from the top of the headset, you can feel the upper bearing cap move too. While riding you would have to use only the front brake and stop very hard to feel it. During normal riding where I apply both brakes it feels great. Maybe I'm just trying to hard to make it move. That upper steering bearing is pretty darn small. Is it possible that with enough pressure it's just moving a little? With the front brake only on and pushing forward that's a lot of leverage on the fork stem and upper bearing. |
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Post by jjoshua20213 on May 28, 2014 10:11:11 GMT -5
The steering column needs to be adjusted and tightened. I had the same problem multiple times. Every time I adjust and tighten the column it goes away. It keeps coming back because I never tighten it enough. I don't have a wrench big enough and lowes was no help, so it basically hand tight. Simple easy fix. If you hear the noise and its tight you need to loosen it and adjust it. Every time I adjust and tighten I have to push the tire firmly up and screw it tight and it holds. Ive had the problem before and after replacing the tripple tree and bearings. Only thing in common was the fact it was loose and needed to be adjusted. All good advice. The problem is I've adjusted this until I'm about ready to go nuts. I even have the correct tools. Hook wrench, etc... Too snug, loose, either way it still does the exact same thing. What is funny is that if I sit on the scooter without the brakes on and pull back and forth on the handlebars it's solid as a rock. Same if I put it on the center stand and pull back and forth on the fork legs. No movement at all. It's only if I put the front brake on and push forward very hard (and kind of up) that you feel a little pop from the top of the headset, you can feel the upper bearing cap move too. While riding you would have to use only the front brake and stop very hard to feel it. During normal riding where I apply both brakes it feels great. Maybe I'm just trying to hard to make it move. That upper steering bearing is pretty darn small. Is it possible that with enough pressure it's just moving a little? With the front brake only on and pushing forward that's a lot of leverage on the fork stem and upper bearing. The first time I needed to tighten and adjust, and had the same symptoms you are having now. After I fixed it it stopped The second time I had this problem I found out my tripple tree was crack. I felt unsafe one day so I held the front break and gassed it and to my surprise half the tripple tree snapped. Had I been riding it like I planned I would either be dead or a paraplegic. Third go around and its the same as the first. And now currently its back that way, and i'm going to do the same thing to fix it. Its not so much as tightening it, its making sure the tripple tree/steering stem is SECURED and tightened. I had to physically giggle and force the tire in the right spot while tightening it. I'm like 100% sure thats your problem. I could rock back and forth on the bike, hit the brakes and nothing happens, but when I break hard with the front it pops. Both breaks and it won't. |
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Post by toddscoot71 on May 28, 2014 10:37:11 GMT -5
Broken triple tree huh? That's scary as . I'll double check everything but the new triple tree hopefully isn't screwed up.
Getting the bearings and everything seated correctly makes a lot of sense. I installed the triple tree without the tire or anything mounted to the forks. I was careful to hold everything together before putting the top nut on but it's possible something isn't perfect. I'll pull it apart again soon.
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Post by toddscoot71 on May 29, 2014 0:18:41 GMT -5
Finally got it to stop making the noise. I spent some time adjusting and adjusting then adjusting the bearings some more with no good results. So... I pulled the upper race and bearing out and compared them to the old one that I replaced. For some odd reason the new upper race appears to have been made wrong. Actually, two brand new ones look like they have something wrong with them. The bearing surface doesn't look right and they look to be really bad quality. I pulled my calipers out and they are all over the place. Just plain 'ol junk.
I put the old bearing and upper race in and it worked first try. It doesn't appear to be that hard to get everything lined up. It just pulls itself together. Well, if all the parts fit together right.
Like I've said before. I actually enjoy wrenching on my projects but holy cow! I'm having trouble even getting good new parts.
Has anyone ever come up with a sealed bearing system for these?
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Post by tvnacman on May 29, 2014 8:36:26 GMT -5
Finally got it to stop making the noise. I spent some time adjusting and adjusting then adjusting the bearings some more with no good results. So... I pulled the upper race and bearing out and compared them to the old one that I replaced. For some odd reason the new upper race appears to have been made wrong. Actually, two brand new ones look like they have something wrong with them. The bearing surface doesn't look right and they look to be really bad quality. I pulled my calipers out and they are all over the place. Just plain 'ol junk. I put the old bearing and upper race in and it worked first try. It doesn't appear to be that hard to get everything lined up. It just pulls itself together. Well, if all the parts fit together right. Like I've said before. I actually enjoy wrenching on my projects but holy cow! I'm having trouble even getting good new parts. Has anyone ever come up with a sealed bearing system for these? This is why I'm now in the scooter parts business . But more so on the electrial parts . I have not had a bout with bestings . John |
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