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Post by madcervantes on Mar 14, 2013 20:42:05 GMT -5
So my cheap chinese 50cc died again. The first time, this summer, was a problem with a corroded battery and a blasted spark plug. Now it's died again. I was riding it around, parked it, got back to it, and couldn't get it to start. A couple of times lately I had to kick start it, it's been cold here in Boston, and the wet, and road salt haven't been nice to it. I figured it was a spark plug problem. It was doing something similar to this summer. The thing would wheeze but not turn over. I would push the button and nothing would happen and just an electric bzzzt. Then I opened her up to take a look at the spark plug. Plenty of spark. No problem. So I fiddled around with stuff kind of pushing the button trying to hear where the sound was coming from. It sounded like it was coming from the gear box, or something? The part on near the rear tier, kind of looked like a cylinder that might take in air or something. Anyway I was hitting 2400 on my odometer, and the last time I had changed my oil was 1000 so I figured I needed to change my oil. I changed the gear oil (mostly clear still) and engine oil (holy it was like the worst toxic muck ever). I finished changing the oil, and then tried another kick start and instantly WHOOMPH!!!!!!! It starts up like a stallion. It had some kick to it too. I was thinking maybe some bad oil got clogged in there and when I changed the oil it was back to normal or something. It started up only on kickstart. The lights come on very very very weakly when I turn the key. Pushing the button didn't do much. But a good kickstart and it's ready to roll. I ride to work, I ride to various errands, I ride back home. I eat dinner and I'm fixing to head out again but it once again won't start. Dead. It had just been working 40 minutes before. Now nothing. I turn the key and the lights come on... sometimes. When I kickstart a bunch the lights come on, or sometimes if they're on, they go off. I think when I kickstart it makes the lights come on because maybe I'm shaking a wire lose or something? When I push the electric start button. Nothing. Not even a feeble bzzt. The lights dim slightly but nothing else. Silent as the grave. When I try and kickstart I don't even get a decent cough out of it. So.... any ideas? What did I break this time?  |
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Post by gatekeeper on Mar 15, 2013 0:10:30 GMT -5
First things first. Make sure the battery is fully charged. Let it sit for an hour after charging then check it with a multi meter. If it reads 12.5 volts, then it is a good battery and we can go from there.
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Post by madcervantes on Mar 15, 2013 1:52:03 GMT -5
Hey gatekeeper! I think you were the person who actually helped me this summer, on the Scoot Dawg forum. You were a lifesafer!
Even if the battery is dead, shouldn't the kick start get it to go? Also the lights etc come on.
Also an update on it's status:
The lights still kind of flickers between being off and on. Sometimes I have to kind of shake the frame for it to flicker back on. Also now the electric starter is working again... sorta. As in when I push the button it makes a weird noise. It's not the normal Bzzzt electric sound. It sounds... almost like farting? Or kind of like someone blowing a really airy raspberry. It's like a balloon deflating almost or a door creaking.
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Post by gatekeeper on Mar 15, 2013 3:37:52 GMT -5
Yes, that was me. If everything else is good, it will kick start and run without a charged battery. The kick starters on these are only meant to be used infrequently and are easily broken so lets get that electric starter going. From your description you could have a low battery, a loose connection in your wire harness, a bad ground or an intermittently bad fuse. Again, start with making sure you have a good, fully charged battery. Make sure the battery cable connections are clean and tight. Make sure the negative battery cable goes to a clean (bare metal) tight grounding point on the frame. Look for loose wire connectors and make sure your fuse is good. Also make sure there is no corrosion build up on the fuse connectors. Have you checked the valve gaps? If you have never adjusted the valves they are overdue. They should be adjusted to .004 inches on the intake and .005 inches on the exhaust. You don't really need to take the fan cover off. Just make sure the holes on the camshaft sprocket line up like they do in the video. Here is a video on how to do that. Here is a link back to the original problem you were having last summer. scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=discussion&thread=52712&page=1#512043 |
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Post by h3nry on Mar 15, 2013 4:05:20 GMT -5
Just have to state this... the kick starters will work for 8-9 months guarenteed of steady use if properly tightened... maybe longer.
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Post by madcervantes on Mar 15, 2013 11:50:08 GMT -5
Okay sure thing, I'll start checking those things out. Thanks!
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Post by scootercapecod on Mar 15, 2013 17:56:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm with gatekeeper here. the battery most likely is either weak or shot. Aside from that I'd look at your vacuum lines to your petcock and carb. Make sure you have no leaks and if all of that is ok and you can get it started, let it warm up and do an A/F adjustment.
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Post by tvnacman on Mar 15, 2013 20:43:56 GMT -5
loose battery cables , loose grounds . They will cause no charging and flickering lights .
John
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Post by madcervantes on Mar 15, 2013 20:51:18 GMT -5
Yes, that was me. If everything else is good, it will kick start and run without a charged battery. The kick starters on these are only meant to be used infrequently and are easily broken so lets get that electric starter going. From your description you could have a low battery, a loose connection in your wire harness, a bad ground or an intermittently bad fuse. Okay so I did some research on the various things you mentioned and took another look over on the scooter and I'm not sure how to proceed. Here's what I figured out so far. But first a quick status update. The scooter now is consistently turning on, lighting up, etc when I turn the key. No more flickering etc. I found a wire, on the right handle that has come disconnected from it's solder location. If I touch the wires to it's former home, and pull the right brake it sparks. Weird thing is, the brake still works. Maybe it's the brake light wire? The kickstart is a no go as I've said, and I think the problem is that it stripped or something. When I hit the electric start it doesn't make a single sound. A slight dimming of the lights though. Same for if I pull the brakes. The signal light etc come on strong though. Okay so as for your suggestions: low battery-- Can the lights turn on at all with a low battery? I'm going to take the battery by the auto store tomorrow to get it checked, but I wanted to check with you guys. I got a brand new battery just this summer. How long are these things supposed to last? Also the battery connections seem to be tight from what I can tell. Negative battery cable ground--- I'm not sure how to identify this. I tried to look up pictures online but I can't tell one wire from the next exactly. Fuses--The wires seems fine, but I'm not sure where the fuse connectors are or what they look like. Valve Gaps- I watched the video and I don't know if I can manage that level of repair. My job right now is taking up almost all of my time, and this appears to be more in depth than I can manage. Also I feel a bit lost when watching the video to be honest. Thank you guys for all the help! EDIT: Oh yeah, so I just got this generator for my job ( goo.gl/h4Vgg) and I was wondering if it might be useful to charge the battery? |
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Post by tvnacman on Mar 15, 2013 20:55:27 GMT -5
its on the battery terminal it is marked "-" and the positive one is marked "+"
John
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Post by madcervantes on Mar 15, 2013 21:17:57 GMT -5
I mean the one he said needed to be grounded on to the frame.
Make sure the negative battery cable goes to a clean (bare metal) tight grounding point on the frame.
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Post by gatekeeper on Mar 15, 2013 21:36:43 GMT -5
On scooters the negative wire on the battery is usually green. It will run from the battery to a grounding point on the frame. The positive connection on the battery usually has two red wires attached, a big one and a small one. The fuse holder is usually located along the small red wire that comes off the battery. A plastic enclosure with the fuse inside. The big red wire that comes off the battery goes to the starter solenoid. The solenoid has two large red wires attached to it and a small wire that leads to the start button on the handlebars.
Does the break light come on when the handle is squeezed with or without replacing that wire?If it doesn't without the wire in place but does with the wire in place, re-solder the wire in place.
If you have good battery power but the starter doesn't turn over you can test the solenoid by using two screwdrivers to jump across the two big terminals on the solenoid. There will be sparks. If the starter turns the engine over when you do this then the solenoid is suspect. If the starter doesn't turn over when you jump the contacts then the starter itself is suspect.
The generator you reference does put out 12 v DC but most likely at too high of an AMP rate to be good for your battery. Never charge a scooter battery at a rate more than 2 amps or you will overheat and ruin it.
If your scooter sat thru the winter in the cold without periodically charging the battery it could have ruined it,
The lights can come on with a low battery but the solenoid and starter motor take a fully charged battery to work properly.
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Post by madcervantes on Mar 16, 2013 1:38:36 GMT -5
On scooters the negative wire on the battery is usually green. It will run from the battery to a grounding point on the frame. The positive connection on the battery usually has two red wires attached, a big one and a small one. The fuse holder is usually located along the small red wire that comes off the battery. A plastic enclosure with the fuse inside. The big red wire that comes off the battery goes to the starter solenoid. The solenoid has two large red wires attached to it and a small wire that leads to the start button on the handlebars. If your scooter sat thru the winter in the cold without periodically charging the battery it could have ruined it, The lights can come on with a low battery but the solenoid and starter motor take a fully charged battery to work properly. So I double checked that wire on the handle, and I can confirm that it is is just the brake light. I'll get that soldered up ASAP. It's not just that the electric starter isn't turning over the engine anymore. It's not making any sound at all. Not even a bzztt or raspberry wheeze. So does that mean it's still a problem with the battery/solenoid/starter? Or maybe something else. I'll try checking out the solenoid stuff tomorrow after I test out my battery. The scooter was ridden everyday pretty much through the winter, so it wasn't just sitting cold in a garage, though it did get it's fair share of weather and wet. Even with high AMP rate, would it be possible to charge it, perhaps by kind of feathering the contact with the generator off and on? I know this seems like a dumb question, but I'm learning all this stuff as I go so I'm trying to get a handle on what the limitations of these machines are, and how much improvisation is possible. Thanks again! |
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Post by madcervantes on Mar 16, 2013 17:23:10 GMT -5
So I took it by the auto place to see if it could take a charge. It was so low on charge that they couldn't even test it to see if it had charge. So they're charging it now. They started about 2 hours ago, and when I asked them about it just now they said that it isn't finished charging but that it did seem to be taking a charge. So it seems this was my problem all along. I imagine for the kickstarter, I probably ended up breaking it. Mine is a cheap chinese model so it's probably not the best tempered metal etc.
I'll let you guys know how things turned out but I think this is probably the solution. Thanks again! You guys (especially gatekeeper) have been lifesavers. I mean that in a somewhat literal sense too. When my moped broke down this summer, the first time, I was actually at the time homeless. I'm a college student, but I'm only in college on scholarship, so when school isn't in session I don't have very much money and my parents in addition to also not having a lot of money live far far away from where I go to school, and I have to be especially self reliant. My solution to this issue has been to buy a scooter rather than a car, that way I can stave off the debt of car payments and auto insurance. Owning this moped for just one year has already saved me something like 6,000 dollars, but of course when it breaks, it's a big deal. So thank you guys for helping me out. It's forums like this that make the internet such a wonderful thing. Thank you.
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Post by gatekeeper on Mar 16, 2013 18:48:41 GMT -5
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