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Post by rcq92130 on Jul 23, 2015 16:28:30 GMT -5
Lain ...
1. Put the 150cc engine in. Life above 35mph - in the same scooter you love and respect - is not all that bad.
2. I did NOT mean to put JB BETWEEN the jug & case. That would be fatal (never get it apart). I neant - smear the outside of the seam. It works.
3. The vent in the valve cover is 1/4 inch approx. That is more than enough to vent pressure, presuming you don't have the vent hose blocked. Remove the hose and feel if there is a lot of air blowing out. Put your thumb over the vent end - I'm betting you do not feel any appreciable pressure. Drilling a hole in the crankcase is a bad enough idea anyway, but it would also drop shavings inside the engine. Step away from the drill!
4. Though Jerry never had the gasket slide out, I did. No appreciable blowby. It happens, even with properly torques heads. I will never again NOT use sealant, though Jerry is very, very right about being careful to not block the oil passage.
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Post by spandi on Jul 23, 2015 16:33:43 GMT -5
Ever consider Hondabond HT (high Temperature) in conjunction with the gaskets  |
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 23, 2015 19:02:25 GMT -5
You Must Replace The Cylinder Studs.
You can Only Stretch that Junk a Couple Times (maybe). Pret Much Once.
There is a Reason They Sell Replacements.
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Post by lain on Jul 23, 2015 19:22:13 GMT -5
You Must Replace The Cylinder Studs. You can Only Stretch that Junk a Couple Times (maybe). Pret Much Once. There is a Reason They Sell Replacements. Damn I didn't realize. I have used them everytime I've opened it. Anything else I should think about? |
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Post by lain on Jul 24, 2015 21:41:09 GMT -5
You Must Replace The Cylinder Studs. You can Only Stretch that Junk a Couple Times (maybe). Pret Much Once. There is a Reason They Sell Replacements. I'm ordering new studs soon, do you know if I can remove the old ones with a vice grip? Is there any danger of damaging the case threads? Should I use red loctite on install? |
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 25, 2015 6:10:20 GMT -5
You Must Replace The Cylinder Studs. You can Only Stretch that Junk a Couple Times (maybe). Pret Much Once. There is a Reason They Sell Replacements. I'm ordering new studs soon, do you know if I can remove the old ones with a vice grip? Is there any danger of damaging the case threads? Should I use red loctite on install? Better to Double Nut the Studs to back them out. Unless you have a stud removal/installation tool, there not that much. May want to use Removable Loc-Tite. Be Very Careful Not to Over-torque the Studs, you will Draw the Metal Up and Never get it to seal good luck |
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Post by pmatulew on Jul 25, 2015 6:43:10 GMT -5
Good catch! Changing the studs wouldn't have been my first thought. But since he has to take it apart again, he might as well change them to be sure.
Also it wouldn't hurt to buy himself a small fine grain sharpening stone. Something about the size of a pack of gum. Then get in the habit of swishing that across the important mating surfaces before re-assembly. That's usually enough to catch any high spots or burrs around bolt holes and such.
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 25, 2015 7:29:00 GMT -5
You Must Replace The Cylinder Studs. You can Only Stretch that Junk a Couple Times (maybe). Pret Much Once. There is a Reason They Sell Replacements. I'm ordering new studs soon, do you know if I can remove the old ones with a vice grip? Is there any danger of damaging the case threads? Should I use red loctite on install? Ya know, thinking here I believe you said you had it apart bout four times with this problem alone? Wonder if you haven't Drawn up the Metal (top of the cases) around those Studs? It wouldn't take much. Ive seen this happen more than once. Pay very close attention to that area (Around the Studs). I'm fortunate to have some machinist straight edges of various lengths to check deck flatness. |
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Post by lain on Jul 25, 2015 8:53:49 GMT -5
I'm ordering new studs soon, do you know if I can remove the old ones with a vice grip? Is there any danger of damaging the case threads? Should I use red loctite on install? Ya know, thinking here I believe you said you had it apart bout four times with this problem alone? Wonder if you haven't Drawn up the Metal (top of the cases) around those Studs? It wouldn't take much. Ive seen this happen more than once. Pay very close attention to that area (Around the Studs). I'm fortunate to have some machinist straight edges of various lengths to check deck flatness. It's possible I overtorqued it, I do not have a torque wrench. I would tighten the nuts on the cam holder thing to hand tight then take my socket wrench and turn them another half circle and stop there. Do you think that would be too much? |
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Post by rcq92130 on Jul 25, 2015 11:23:05 GMT -5
Ya know, thinking here I believe you said you had it apart bout four times with this problem alone? Wonder if you haven't Drawn up the Metal (top of the cases) around those Studs? It wouldn't take much. Ive seen this happen more than once. Pay very close attention to that area (Around the Studs). I'm fortunate to have some machinist straight edges of various lengths to check deck flatness. It's possible I overtorqued it, I do not have a torque wrench. I would tighten the nuts on the cam holder thing to hand tight then take my socket wrench and turn them another half circle and stop there. Do you think that would be too much? wow. correct torque on a head is critical, as is torquing in the proper order - especially on an aluminum head. Surprised you do not have a warped cylinder head. |
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 25, 2015 12:05:31 GMT -5
Ya know, thinking here I believe you said you had it apart bout four times with this problem alone? Wonder if you haven't Drawn up the Metal (top of the cases) around those Studs? It wouldn't take much. Ive seen this happen more than once. Pay very close attention to that area (Around the Studs). I'm fortunate to have some machinist straight edges of various lengths to check deck flatness. It's possible I overtorqued it, I do not have a torque wrench. I would tighten the nuts on the cam holder thing to hand tight then take my socket wrench and turn them another half circle and stop there. Do you think that would be too much? Well glad your honest, much easier to help you. I was told once if you have a calibrated elbow you don't need a torque wrench, all others get one. As much as you wrench on these get one. Very easy to over torque this gem especially with just four Studs and Junk to boot. Pick up a cheap Beam type at Harbor Freight or Pawn shops have tons. Be careful of the Clicker ratchet type as some need to be calibrated very so often, and stored un-loaded. We have in the South (Carolina's) every weekend red neck flea market's with Tons of New and used tools. |
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Post by lain on Jul 25, 2015 12:21:12 GMT -5
It's possible I overtorqued it, I do not have a torque wrench. I would tighten the nuts on the cam holder thing to hand tight then take my socket wrench and turn them another half circle and stop there. Do you think that would be too much? Well glad your honest, much easier to help you. I was told once if you have a calibrated elbow you don't need a torque wrench, all others get one. As much as you wrench on these get one. Very easy to over torque this gem especially with just four Studs and Junk to boot. Pick up a cheap Beam type at Harbor Freight or Pawn shops have tons. Be careful of the Clicker ratchet type as some need to be calibrated very so often, and stored un-loaded. We have in the South (Carolina's) every weekend red neck flea market's with Tons of New and used tools. Say it was overtorqued, what do I look for when I remove the old studs? If they were should I add some sort of sealant/locker or should I tap the holes and put helicoils in? Lying doesn't help, of course I'm going to be honest, this is my baby afterall. Rebuilt 2 times after friend crashed it a couple times. It coasts at 40 and doesn't fear hills haha |
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Major oil leak
by: onewheeldrive - Jul 25, 2015 12:54:16 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by onewheeldrive on Jul 25, 2015 12:54:16 GMT -5
Honestly, finger tight and then a half turn may even be under-torqued.
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Post by pistonguy on Jul 25, 2015 12:58:43 GMT -5
The only way (not worth the time) to check if Studs were over torqued is measure the Length to the .001
We would check SBC Rod bolts wight a gauge, If Over-Revved the Rod bolts Stretched and will be longer.
You may have drawn up ( upset) the metal around the Stud, give it a good close visual maybe try to come up with a edge to check flatness, check with studs Out. If so unless you could re-surface the cases (not worth the time) have to buy new cases.
Good Luck.
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Post by rcq92130 on Jul 25, 2015 13:05:32 GMT -5
Well glad your honest, much easier to help you. I was told once if you have a calibrated elbow you don't need a torque wrench, all others get one. As much as you wrench on these get one. Very easy to over torque this gem especially with just four Studs and Junk to boot. Pick up a cheap Beam type at Harbor Freight or Pawn shops have tons. Be careful of the Clicker ratchet type as some need to be calibrated very so often, and stored un-loaded. We have in the South (Carolina's) every weekend red neck flea market's with Tons of New and used tools. Say it was overtorqued, what do I look for when I remove the old studs? If they were should I add some sort of sealant/locker or should I tap the holes and put helicoils in? Lying doesn't help, of course I'm going to be honest, this is my baby afterall. Rebuilt 2 times after friend crashed it a couple times. It coasts at 40 and doesn't fear hills haha Check for 2 things: 1. Get at least a metal ruler or straight edge (mechanics straight edge preferable, but probably not an absolute requirement). Place it diagonally across the crankcase surface and see if you can slip a .001 feeler gauge between it and the surface anywhere. Test the other diagonal. Then do the same with the jug under surface, the top of the jug, and the bottom of the head. You are just looking for warpage. If found it would be cheapest to just get another jug or head. 2. Check specifically for metal pulled up around the bolt holes in the crank (someone suggested thyis earlier) and use a fine stone to flatten anything you find. Just make sure no filings will fall down into the crankcase opening But, again - don't be convinced the gasket blew out just because of improper torque. I( had the same problem and had correct torque, no blowby. I know very knowledgable people say this cannot or should not happen, and they are right, yet it happens. Go figure. |
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