|
|
Post by geh3333 on Feb 20, 2015 22:21:23 GMT -5
Well this is interesting I can see a cosmetic difference . I'm more interested in what difference in performance you find . Thus far everyone sold has been complaint free . In fact I fish for feedback the only negative feedback was some cosmetic imperfection . John I'm wondering if most don't even notice ? I'd like to here from more who have ordered one since over the summer . Im thinking you just recently started receiving these casts . I know u did measurements for me over the summer and they were the same as my old koso . |
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Feb 20, 2015 22:23:57 GMT -5
Well this is interesting I can see a cosmetic difference . I'm more interested in what difference in performance you find . Thus far everyone sold has been complaint free . In fact I fish for feedback the only negative feedback was some cosmetic imperfection . John I'm wondering if most don't even notice ? I'd like to here from more who have ordered one since over the summer . Im thinking you just recently started receiving these casts . I know u did measurements for me over the summer and they were the same as my old koso . What I noticed is that I have to use slightly lighter roller weights to reach the same top rpm . I would imagine takeoff would take a hit since the belt doesn't drop all the way. But then again I did drop in roller weight so ? |
|
|
|
Post by JoeyBee on Feb 20, 2015 22:27:37 GMT -5
geh3333. Thank you for thr breakdown and informative post. +1
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Feb 20, 2015 22:28:35 GMT -5
install it see how it works .
|
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Feb 20, 2015 22:29:27 GMT -5
I should add that my broken v-slides were not caused by the new koso . and I do have a question . if u would use a spacer would the belt still climb as high on the variator as before the spacer . I would expect yes but not sure . also one plus would be if I use a spacer and get the belt to drop fully I should have even better takeoff due to the lighter roller weights , but then again will the heavier variator come into play ?
|
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Feb 20, 2015 22:32:52 GMT -5
install it see how it works . Ill be installing it soon . this is third one so im expecting the same results , but i cannot confirm until installed. Im still waiting for my ncy starter clutch and gasket. This is the first time in over three yrs if had to wait a week for delivery from PR. |
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Feb 21, 2015 1:32:37 GMT -5
I should add that my broken v-slides were not caused by the new koso . and I do have a question . if u would use a spacer would the belt still climb as high on the variator as before the spacer . I would expect yes but not sure . also one plus would be if I use a spacer and get the belt to drop fully I should have even better takeoff due to the lighter roller weights , but then again will the heavier variator come into play ? The way to compare the heights of the two variators is to put each on on the same back plate, with the same rollers, and measure the two heights. I believe the roller pulley will sit on the rollers, not the back of the pulley. Putting in shims will drop the belt on every level, so yes, your pulley will be further apart on the bottom and on the top end. I would not worry about the drive teeth when adding a small amount of shims. We are talking about a few thousandths of an inch. As I recall, the belt will drop approximately double the thickness of the shims, so if you put in .020 of shims, your belt will drop .040 on the pulleys. In order to change the width on the bottom, but keep the same width on the top, you'd have to change the angle of the pulleys by a fraction of a degree. I had the same problem, of having to drastically reduce my roller weights when putting in a new variator, a KOSO from ebay as I recall. |
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Feb 21, 2015 2:03:31 GMT -5
In the last pics u can see the other side where the boss slides through . the newer one is beveled on the inside edge so it looks shorter , but they are the same . Wow! Can't believe the damage! So, if I understand: 1. same ramp angle 2. In both the belt rode to the same height 3. The new one has the ramp angle start closer to the boss (so the belt will not ever get as far down toward the boss) Correct? Did you say the splines on the Koso do not fit as well onto the shaft (bigger diameter)? |
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Feb 21, 2015 2:09:28 GMT -5
install it see how it works . Ill be installing it soon . this is third one so im expecting the same results , but i cannot confirm until installed. Im still waiting for my ncy starter clutch and gasket. This is the first time in over three yrs if had to wait a week for delivery from PR. Did the new Koso come WITH shims? My Dr P came with 3 (though like an idiot i lost them). I would guess Scooter is right - shims separates the faces at all RPMs and thus causes the belt to always ride lower. Unless, of course, the variator is limited not by the separation between the faces but by the ultimate travel of the sliders (maybe there is unused potential with the sliders never being able to get all the way outboard). This is all pretty interesting ! |
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Feb 21, 2015 4:38:11 GMT -5
I should add that my broken v-slides were not caused by the new koso . and I do have a question . if u would use a spacer would the belt still climb as high on the variator as before the spacer . I would expect yes but not sure . also one plus would be if I use a spacer and get the belt to drop fully I should have even better takeoff due to the lighter roller weights , but then again will the heavier variator come into play ? The way to compare the heights of the two variators is to put each on on the same back plate, with the same rollers, and measure the two heights. I believe the roller pulley will sit on the rollers, not the back of the pulley. Putting in shims will drop the belt on every level, so yes, your pulley will be further apart on the bottom and on the top end. I would not worry about the drive teeth when adding a small amount of shims. We are talking about a few thousandths of an inch. As I recall, the belt will drop approximately double the thickness of the shims, so if you put in .020 of shims, your belt will drop .040 on the pulleys. In order to change the width on the bottom, but keep the same width on the top, you'd have to change the angle of the pulleys by a fraction of a degree. I had the same problem, of having to drastically reduce my roller weights when putting in a new variator, a KOSO from ebay as I recall. Your 100%,correct about measuring the variator with the back plate and rollers in . I'll do that in a little while and post the pics. When it comes to belt travel with shims in , I think it all depends . because if the clutch opens fully then the belt should still have the same amount of slack , and the variator has no travel limitations on the boss. I also think the rollers should have more room to push the variator open a little further considering I think its the clutch pulley stopping the belt from climbing any further if opened completely. |
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Feb 21, 2015 6:54:36 GMT -5
The way to compare the heights of the two variators is to put each on on the same back plate, with the same rollers, and measure the two heights. I believe the roller pulley will sit on the rollers, not the back of the pulley. Putting in shims will drop the belt on every level, so yes, your pulley will be further apart on the bottom and on the top end. I would not worry about the drive teeth when adding a small amount of shims. We are talking about a few thousandths of an inch. As I recall, the belt will drop approximately double the thickness of the shims, so if you put in .020 of shims, your belt will drop .040 on the pulleys. In order to change the width on the bottom, but keep the same width on the top, you'd have to change the angle of the pulleys by a fraction of a degree. I had the same problem, of having to drastically reduce my roller weights when putting in a new variator, a KOSO from ebay as I recall. Your 100%,correct about measuring the variator with the back plate and rollers in . I'll do that in a little while and post the pics. When it comes to belt travel with shims in , I think it all depends . because if the clutch opens fully then the belt should still have the same amount of slack , and the variator has no travel limitations on the boss. I also think the rollers should have more room to push the variator open a little further considering I think its the clutch pulley stopping the belt from climbing any further if opened completely. What you say makes sense if the variator pulleys are touching in the middle. Maybe you could look in there while revving the engine to see if that's the case. If it was already opening fully, with the rollers all the way out to the edge, then it would make sense that, with shims in, its fully open position would be a little farther apart than it was before. I tried .040 of shims on another variator and increased my low end torque, but I lost a few mph off the top end. I wasn't having any rev issues though. The bike was maxing out rpm either way. The exception is when you have low rpms at top speed, where your engine can't fully rev to max RPMs, then you should see a gain in top speed by using shims, or at least no loss, while still increasing low end torque. If you don't want to use shims, your only reasonable option would be to shave the face of the pulley. |
|
Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 137
Likes: 24
Joined: Jul 6, 2013 21:27:28 GMT -5
|
Post by mopojo on Feb 21, 2015 7:36:27 GMT -5
I should add that my broken v-slides were not caused by the new koso .... I have had 2 KOSO variators installed and both ate-up the guide-keys. The first actually broke off the guides and threw all the innards 'round (lasted 3 months). Second one I checked after a month and the keys were showing signs of immanent failure (removed). Went back to stock and no issues. This on a 63cc GY6 with no other CVT mods. The KOSO variators were bought May and August of 2014. |
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Feb 21, 2015 7:44:17 GMT -5
With the weights and back plate on , the new koso is still taller .
|
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Feb 21, 2015 7:44:55 GMT -5
Ill be installing it soon . this is third one so im expecting the same results , but i cannot confirm until installed. Im still waiting for my ncy starter clutch and gasket. This is the first time in over three yrs if had to wait a week for delivery from PR. Did the new Koso come WITH shims? My Dr P came with 3 (though like an idiot i lost them). I would guess Scooter is right - shims separates the faces at all RPMs and thus causes the belt to always ride lower. Unless, of course, the variator is limited not by the separation between the faces but by the ultimate travel of the sliders (maybe there is unused potential with the sliders never being able to get all the way outboard). This is all pretty interesting ! No shims came with the koso . |
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Feb 21, 2015 7:48:28 GMT -5
Hey rcq , the splines on the variator shaft " crank " . the ncy drive face I have is wider then a stock drive face . that is , how it fits between the boss and the variator nut . so if I use shims , the drive face will not be fully on the splines . not sure if it matters , however I don't like it .
|
|
