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Post by SylvreKat on Oct 19, 2014 22:25:18 GMT -5
Thanks, Kat!
This weary old warhorse rides better than she looks...
I just gotta' take advantage of the opening. You're not THAT old a warhorse, Leo.  >'Kat |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 20, 2014 1:32:29 GMT -5
Thanks, Kat!
This weary old warhorse rides better than she looks...
I just gotta' take advantage of the opening. You're not THAT old a warhorse, Leo. >'Kat Kat,
I was talking about the scooter... THE SCOOTER... LOL!
Of course, I have been riding now for well over a half-century... My my, how time do fly!
Hang in there!
Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 20, 2014 1:53:26 GMT -5
No doubt this thread will inspire more custom work and hopefully our conversation will add to that inspiration. I know you got me wanting to get some of this whitewall stuff just because...who knows I might not like the whitewalls i bought and may return back to my stock tires and give them a whitewall treatment. And in another thread I saw you and another member talking about the installation of a small car tire....One thing I would love is a fat rear tire. Again finding one that has that cool retro whitewall look is next to impossible.....I've looked.. Sp again, this thread is extremely useful. Oh I'm more than open to different pipe options. a larger diameter pipe would be better.. I just use the Harley pipe as an example because I know they are readily available on the bay and for the masses reading this, it gives you a clear idea of what I'm looking to make for my scoot and the look I'm trying to achieve. Just an FYI, I plan on having the whole thing welded up and then sent off to be ceramic coated... I'm really just getting warmed up on my scooter build and as soon as I have a lil more done I do plan on starting a thread to document it all. Right now I'm having to hand grind valve wells on my piston on my new BBK...Go figure the cam I'm using has too much lift and is smacking the intake valve into the piston. Looking forward to riding safe soon! Hey, friend,
I'd think hard about returning the Shinkos, and painting the whitewalls. The grief I've encountered was and still is, sort of a pain... Factory whitewalls are still the best way to go, IF you can find them... I do love my front Shinko whitewall!
I'm not sure just HOW small car tires get. I think the thread you mentioned was for putting a 145-70-12 on a Honda scooter. Should work fine, but still not available in a whitewall (except maybe the big-buck $250+ ones for the new "Mini"). But those would still only be white on one side. A "square" shoulder car tire looks mighty sharp on a scooter... It appears wider than it really is.
Sounds like you have the exhaust setup down pat! The ceramic will be the "icing on the cake"! Your post on the build will be a major inspiration to others...
So the PISTON hits the INTAKE VALVE? That's going to require some mighty careful fitting, even to consider slight changes from warming up to operating temp. My old Honda car uses "interference" valve-timing, and should the cam-belt go south, EVERYTHING goes south... EEEWWWW!
I still wish China would make a nice, factory-stock 180cc motor with 15+hp. Just bolt it in. That slick little Kymco "People" REALLY impressed me. It's what a plain-Jane 150-180cc GY6 could REALLY be! Until then, to get a 150 to be "frisky" we'll just have to tickle 'em a little... LOL!
Ride safe, and ride COOL!
Leo
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 20, 2014 8:40:01 GMT -5
oldchopperguy Last Edit: today at 3:01am by oldchopperguy Dear lord man, get some sleep!  LOL No I'm not going to return the Shinkos, just I might not like the RPM range they make me cruise at. And it's easier (cheaper) to put the old tires back on for now vs changing out my final drive gears. Dear lord it would be so nice if I could buy a cheap stock 15hp 180cc GY6! Cause as it is now I'm looking at dropiing at lil over 1k on a Taida 232cc build. I looked at just plugging in a stock 250cc but the cheapest new gy6 like 250 I can find starts at 900. Then add the fact that there are no where near the performance parts list for a 250 vs the GY6. So I decided to just stick with the GY6 platform and also forgo the pain in the rear frame mods I would need to do to put the 250 in. I just about got it to clear, I just need to shave a little more off of the original valve well that was already on my piston. It's not that hard to do. It's just a lengthy process of putting the whole thing together and then taking it apart and doing a little more shaving, bit by bit, till it clears. I just put some white grease on the valves and turn the motor over and the valve marks the piston where it hits. Main thing is I don't want to shave off more than I need. The more I remove from the piston the less compression I'm going to have. The less compression the less HP this build is going to make. Evidently the A11 cam I'm using has a very large lift and it's opening the valves up to their max tolerances. It really is a beast of a fat nasty cam and should sound sweet! BTW this is a 58.5 BBK with a high flow performance head install. I chose the A11 because it has the best torque curve at low end with the best combination of high end torque. It even surpasses the a9 that every one installs, and is just below the best low end A8. This graph shows you what I mean. The blue line is my cam. wildswede.se/Baotian/Cam_horsepower2.jpgAnd back on topic, once I do the Taida build I'm putting in a long case so I'll be able to run a 12 inch rim with the lil car tire on it. Then is when I'll put t use your awesome whitewall paint.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 20, 2014 11:05:10 GMT -5
Xyshannen,
Yeah, I would LOVE to see a simple, affordable 180cc GY6... 70mph, quick off the line, air-cooled, low compression daily-driver, and no wrenching... But... at 232cc, and VERY much warmed-up, YOUR motor should SCREAM past the Kymco 163 (and THAT scoot is no slouch... LOL!). I'm thinking you may end up with near 20hp, lots of rpm, and THAT in a 150 frame will be SWEET! You may have to weld in a gusset here and there to prevent frame-flex. (I noticed my old 250 has a much, MUCH heavier frame than the 150's, and weighs 100 pounds more). Think of MY engine in YOUR frame... Whew!
I've seen long-case 150's in the turtledeck scoots (even in 50cc size) and the conversion looks pretty neat. Very intimidating, shouting "there's something going on here..." Also, with a 12" rear-wheel, you could use the Shinko 130-70-12 whitewall that matches your front tire. A 130 is a fairly large-diameter; Shinko's "rear" version for 12-inchers.
I'm really looking forward to you posting your build. The "custom-build" section of the site NEEDS some new material! Your finished ride won't be cheap, but it will surely give you your money's worth! Woo HOO!
Keep on wrenching!
Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 23, 2014 22:19:57 GMT -5
Last update until I add some fresh coats of "Motor City" whitewall paint...
I've now ridden hard, enough miles to be convinced this stuff will stay put. Several times I've run some distance at WOT (around 75-80mph) on hot days, and there is no sign of cracking, peeling or discoloration. That's good enough for me to consider it "permanent"... (I hope... LOL!). The only degradation is that "thinning" of the finished paint, allowing the black tire color to show through some.
Today, I ran 40 miles on the freeway at 65 to 80mph, getting the tire so hot I couldn't keep my hand on the sidewall. That level of "warming-up" always destroyed any other paint I tried. While the tire was good and hot, I dug at the edge of the painted whitewall with a knife, and it stuck fast! It actually felt like a genuine factory rubber whitewall. Only the black "show-through" was any problem.
So... With the reservation of knowing extra coats will be needed, I can recommend "Motor City" whitewall paint. It's is the best product I've tried. It's definitely not perfect, but it's light-years ahead of anything else I know of.
I'll still recommend trying to find a factory whitewall if possible, but if it's not possible, this paint is worth a try so long as you're willing to put up with a LONG, time-consuming application process, AND are willing to re-coat later as needed. I'm betting a fresh coat every season will be needed to keep it nice. That isn't bad though, it only takes about a half-hour to put a coat on, then let it sit 24 hours.
One interesting side-effect was that I found the Shinko BIAS-PLY front, and Michelin RADIAL-PLY rear to be a fabulous combination. With plenty of city, AND 70+mph freeway riding on them, I find the handling, braking and cruising properties to be all I could ask for. NO wobble, NO shimmy, NO slipping on any but the most slippery surfaces.
Great "coasting" down from speed, and a VERY smooth, comfortable ride at all speeds. Not one problem mixing the bias and radial tires. I do credit SOME of the nice handling to MOXIE SCOOTERS (my dealer) for professional mounting and a great balance-job on both wheels/tires. I had some initial doubts about 12" wheels being TRULY happy cruising at highway speeds, but this setup is every bit as solid on the highway as my old Harley Electra-Glide bagger from "back in the day".
I'll make a new post down the road, after applying some fresh coats of paint. Hopefully they will stay put, AND stay white!
More later,
Leo in Texas |
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 24, 2014 7:18:13 GMT -5
That's great new man! Just one question tho: What are you using to apply the paint? I'm curious if using a brush wouldn't leave brush stroke marks.
I'm actually having a hard time finding anyone that can balance my tires, and only a handful of shops are able to even mount them for me.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 24, 2014 10:44:38 GMT -5
That's great new man! Just one question tho: What are you using to apply the paint? I'm curious if using a brush wouldn't leave brush stroke marks. I'm actually having a hard time finding anyone that can balance my tires, and only a handful of shops are able to even mount them for me. Xyshannen,
I'm using the ten-cent foam-plastic brush included with the paint... I figured the maker must know the best way... LOL! Seriously, it's a regular Wal-Mart foam brush, but it works great. The seller recommends using a foam brush and the chisel-point does control the paint very well. Makes it easy to butt the paint edge up to any molded ridge in the tire. I used no masking of any kind.
Yes, it DOES leave brush-marks but they honestly don't look very bad. It "skins-over" fast, so the faster and more surely you apply the paint, the less they show, but they are there. The paint cannot be thinned out and sprayed. It's the consistency of thick whipping-cream. The original "Dr. Whitewall" paint also had to be brushed on, but was just AWFUL about obliterating the tire markings, and leaving 1/8" thick brush-marks. This stuff leaves brush marks no worse than ordinary enamel, and being flat-white, they nearly disappear in the bright sun.
The photo below shows the brush-marks in the shadow area plainly, but they only stand out because of the thinner parts being semi-transparent, allowing the black tire to show through. It makes the whitewall look dirty. Once all-white, the brush-marks are not bad at all. You can see how the streaks nearly disappear in the sun-lit area of the sidewall. If you can click on the picture and see it enlarged, it shows even better...
I'm not sure what advice I can give you on balancing the tires. My dealer (Moxie Scooters) charged $25 for change/installation and high-speed balancing of the front tire, and $35 for the rear. To me, that was well worth it! They also pulled the bearings for me and checked them... I figured with 14K miles, they might be needing replacement, but they were still like new... No purple colors, no play... LOL! On the center-stand, I can run the rear up to WOT with no shake at all, and on the highway there is no shake at either end.
All I can think of is to check with all local motorcycle/scooter shops in your area. Somebody must be able to mount and balance the tires properly... The crotch-rocket boys are pretty "picky" with their 200mph rides.
My old 150 did not have the wheels balanced, and I'm pretty sure a $700 Chinese grocery-getter didn't get much attention from the factory... In fact, the rear wheel had the AXLE an EIGHTH-INCH off-center!!! The TIRE was also out-of-round, and had the "thick" side mounted on the "low" side of the rim! That kept the TREAD turning "sort of" round, but still would "pogo" 1/16" or so... Watching it on the center-stand would curl your hair... but with a top speed of 55-58mph I never noticed it while riding. I think the balancing is most important above 60-65mph.
I'm not sure I've been of much help, but it's the best I can do...
Ride safe!
Leo
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 24, 2014 12:12:57 GMT -5
Thanks Leo I've called around and none of the local scooter shops can actually balance my tires, I'm now checking with the motorcycle shops..None of the local car places were much of a help either. I might just have to contend with mounted unbalanced tires. I don't really intend to be going over 50 very much on this thing...but with the new motor I do have to watch the speedo better. It cruses at 55 before you know it.
I was thinking a foam brush or sponge would be the best way to apply the white wall paint.You're right, the marks do disappear in bright sunlight. Again, all good info, thank you for doing this wright up.
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Post by surfpick on Oct 24, 2014 12:33:52 GMT -5
Thanks Leo I've called around and none of the local scooter shops can actually balance my tires, I'm now checking with the motorcycle shops..None of the local car places were much of a help either. I might just have to contend with mounted unbalanced tires. I was wondering about that myself. Does anybody here mount & balance their own tires? There are a few videos giving tips. Here's an even more El Cheapo method: |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 28, 2014 22:27:45 GMT -5
Well... ONE last report on the "Motor City" paint...Since the initial paint turned out to be durable (as in no cracking or peeling) I went ahead and cleaned the sidewalls, and applied another two good coats to make the semi-transparent paint fully opaque-white. OOOH-KAYYY... The new paint went on snowy-white, and actually thick enough to begin to "hide" the factory lettering on the tire. Two days pass, and... Once again, it's thinned-out! The lettering is again visible, AND the paint is once again slightly transparent! This stuff disappears like Houdini... LOL!I've never seen anything quite like it... No matter HOW thick it is, in a few days, it seems to have about 50% evaporated into thin air! Duh... It's like disappearing ink... LOL!However, it doesn't look bad. Just very slightly "dirty" as a rear cycle whitewall usually looks anyway. So long as I only "clean" the front factory whitewall, NOT bleaching the bejeebers out of it with Wesley's... The two tires look dang-near the same. Not "snowy-fresh" but sorta "average-daily-driver-whitewall-gray".I'd say I'm about  % satisfied with the look... Still a whole, WHOLE lot better-looking than the black-walls. It's "perfect" for the "rat-bike" look, but still, "quite-acceptable" for my grocery-getter (or ANY scooter used regularly, and usually having a little bit of "normal" road-dirt on it). It's NOT going to make you happy if used on a show-quality bike that's kept hospital-pristine-clean. So... C'mon, Shinko... How 'bout a PROPER 140 rear whitewall to go with your 120 front? Your 130 just ain't a big enough donut!  Leo (calling it good enough for now) in Texas
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Post by scooter on Oct 29, 2014 0:34:14 GMT -5
Well... ONE last report on the "Motor City" paint...Since the initial paint turned out to be durable (as in no cracking or peeling) I went ahead and cleaned the sidewalls, and applied another two good coats to make the semi-transparent paint fully opaque-white. OOOH-KAYYY... The new paint went on snowy-white, and actually thick enough to begin to "hide" the factory lettering on the tire. Two days pass, and... Once again, it's thinned-out! The lettering is again visible, AND the paint is once again slightly transparent! This stuff disappears like Houdini... LOL!I've never seen anything quite like it... No matter HOW thick it is, in a few days, it seems to have about 50% evaporated into thin air! Duh... It's like disappearing ink... LOL!However, it doesn't look bad. Just very slightly "dirty" as a rear cycle whitewall usually looks anyway. So long as I only "clean" the front factory whitewall, NOT bleaching the bejeebers out of it with Wesley's... The two tires look dang-near the same. Not "snowy-fresh" but sorta "average-daily-driver-whitewall-gray".I'd say I'm about % satisfied with the look... Still a whole, WHOLE lot better-looking than the black-walls. It's "perfect" for the "rat-bike" look, but still, "quite-acceptable" for my grocery-getter (or ANY scooter used regularly, and usually having a little bit of "normal" road-dirt on it). It's NOT going to make you happy if used on a show-quality bike that's kept hospital-pristine-clean. Leo, if you have any left over, perhaps you could try adding some titanium dioxide to it. They sell it rather cheap on ebay. Maybe do two or three concentrations and put them on the inside of your car tire or on someone else's tire for testing, to see how much you can add without it peeling, and to see how it looks when dry. |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 30, 2014 2:24:35 GMT -5
Scooter,
The titanium dioxide is a great idea! I may try that after running it as-is for a little while. I work a lot with artist's paint, especially acrylic, and by the look, feel and smell of this stuff, I think it already has a LOAD of titanium in it. The thinning phenomenon is something totally foreign to me... LOL!
I'm a little "gun-shy" about trying anything that might require removal (again... UGH!) of the paint, since THIS stuff really sticks. As long as it looks no worse than a lightly-used daily-driver whitewall, I think I'll just "adjust" the color of the front (with quite a few miles between cleaning... LOL!) so it matches. That sounds crude, but it really looks pretty good. I'm not talking "doggy, rotted yellow/brown" but only a slight "gray"... Yup!
Thanks for the heads-up! If it darkens very much, I'll surely try it out!
Leo
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% satisfied with the look... Still a whole, WHOLE lot better-looking than the black-walls. It's "perfect" for the "rat-bike" look, but still, "quite-acceptable" for my grocery-getter (or ANY scooter used regularly, and usually having a little bit of "normal" road-dirt on it). It's NOT going to make you happy if used on a show-quality bike that's kept hospital-pristine-clean.
