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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 17, 2014 22:50:18 GMT -5
OK guyz and galz,
I've now got 500 miles on the painted whitewall, using the new MOTOR CITY WHITEWALL product. It's holding up great, EXCEPT for the phenomenon I mentioned in the last thread, of the paint "thinning" when fully-cured, allowing some of the black tire show through as a slight gray color. Here are some update pix for anyone wanting to try this to consider...
 Here is an extreme close-up. ONLY in the deep-shade can the transparency and brush-marks be readily seen. In direct light, the whitewall looks nearly "factory".
Here is another close-up from a few feet further away. It is definitely "presentable" until I can get another few coats on. I want to ride the bejeebers out of it first, to be SURE it's not going to fail.
A little farther yet, and it is barely noticeable as a "fake"...
And finally, a shot as the scoot looks to someone standing a few feet away. The photo is pretty accurate, and it shows the painted whitewall is very close in color and appearance to the factory front SHINKO whitewall. You may be able to click on the pix to see them larger for more detail.
So far, with SOME reservations, I can recommend the Motor City product. Of course, I'll know more in a month or so, after a load of riding. However, it's showing no tendency to crack, or peel. And the black "show-through" can be fixed with additional coats. Only time and miles will tell if additional coats will also thin-out.
This product is the ONLY one I tried, which held up to ANY high-speed riding in hot weather. At least it is showing serious promise. I'll continue to update as time progresses. I know there are other riders out there wanting whitewalls on tires in sizes that don't come in white from the factory. This Michelin radial is also a very "soft" flexible tire which certainly aggravates the problems in painting a whitewall on it.
Originally, I painted the whitewall all the way to the rim. This is also where the WORST crack and peel took place (though it also cracked, then peeled, nearly as bad in the center of the sidewall). This time, I brushed on the white outward from a molded-in ridge an eighth-inch away from the rim. This may help. The outer edge of the paint was brushed to a factory edge where the tread begins. It's easy to stop the paint fairly cleanly at the edge. The places where the paint slopped over onto the tread was easily trimmed with sanding after the white cured, leaving a very sharp, perfectly-concentric edge to the whitewall.
So, judge for yourselves... It is a lot of work, but it may be worth it for the unique look it provides; ESPECIALLY on "rat-scoots" and "skelly" customs with monster-fat tires that do NOT come in white from the factory. That will have to be up to individual riders.
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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Post by SylvreKat on Oct 18, 2014 0:07:01 GMT -5
Minnie's lookin' good there, Leo!  >'Kat |
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Post by spandi on Oct 18, 2014 1:50:13 GMT -5
Great Leo, can you re-coat to increase the thickness?
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Post by scooter on Oct 18, 2014 5:03:12 GMT -5
That looks sharp. Leo!
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 18, 2014 7:30:33 GMT -5
Very sharp indeed Leo!
Now to take a time out and ask you WHERE did you get that exhaust!?! I love it!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 18, 2014 14:59:58 GMT -5
Minnie's lookin' good there, Leo! >'Kat Thanks, Kat!
This weary old warhorse rides better than she looks... What a great scoot she's turned out to be! Whether going to "Wally World" around the block, or heading for another state, she'll do it all with a smile...
Ride safe!
Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 18, 2014 15:36:34 GMT -5
Great Leo, can you re-coat to increase the thickness? As the old "Ambien Beaver" used to say... "AB-SO-LOOT-LEE". LOL!
I've been intentionally riding hard and fast to test this product. If the stuff doesn't fail in a few more weeks, I'll put on another 2 coats. That will make the sidewalls snow-white again. Then I'll see if the black peeps through again. As the pix show, even though "imperfect" the stuff STILL is "presentable" with a slight transparency. It looks like it's just slightly "soiled" as a bike rear tire often looks anyway. The pix are accurate. Old "Minnie Mouse" ain't a show-bike... She's a "daily-driver". Worst case, I can live with it.
It's weird how the paint thins as it cures. Every other paint I've tried has completely failed after just a few miles of 70+ mph on a hot day... cracked, peeled and disintegrated. THIS paint seems to be very durable, but does thin-out and become very slightly transparent as it cures.
In all fairness, painted whitewalls are primarily for older, dried-out and seasoned tires. The brown "schmootz" that oozes out of new tires defeats most paints. This MOTOR CITY WHITEWALL brand however is MUCH different from any other paint I tried. It does seem to at least partially "Vulcanize" to the tire, and to itself. So far, it seems to be MANY times more durable than others I've tried.
The instructions are different from others too, and I followed them to a "T".
1. Prepare the surface with sanding-disk or wire brush. You do NOT need to grind-off the factory lettering. Just rough-up the surface, and open the pores of the tire.
2. SCRUB the surface with BLEACH over, and over, and over... ad-nauseum (LOL) until NO more brown schmootz appears on the cleaning rag. THAT takes some SERIOUS effort. My fingers are STILL raw... Yup.
3. Paint the FIRST coat brushed-out THIN. It will NOT cover, and will be "spotty" in appearance. That's OK. Do NOT re-coat for a full 24 hours.
4. Do a second (or third, or more) coats until it's opaque white, but ALWAYS ALLOW A FULL 24 HOURS BETWEEN EACH SUCCESSIVE COAT.
5. Let the FINAL coat cure for a FULL 24 hours, before riding. Now ALL THIS 24-HOUR curing is the hard part... Because it means you ABSOLUTELY can't ride for nearly a week or so. Oh well, the family car needs some exercise, too... LOL!
Most of us get "impatient" and fudge a little on projects. I do believe THIS product requires strict adherence to the instructions to have ANY chance of success.
So..... That's where it stands right now. I'll re-post in a while to update. Hopefully it will stay durable, and a few more coats will make it stay white. While (with reservations until FULLY proven) I can recommend the MOTOR CITY paint, I honestly cannot recommend painting a new tire. It's just too "iffy". If you do, you WILL encounter some irritations in the process... But if you need a whitewall on an off-size tire that isn't available in white, well... There are not a lot of options. Worth a try for sure.
THIS tire is a MICHELIN POWER-PURE. Other brands may be better, or worse for painting on. Any other riders out there trying this "questionable" technique of obtaining the "unobtainable" whitewall, PLEASE post your experiences for the rest of us to see...
Thanks!
Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 18, 2014 15:55:31 GMT -5
Very sharp indeed Leo! Now to take a time out and ask you WHERE did you get that exhaust!?! I love it! Xyshannen,
Ah, the illusive, all-American "fish-tail" exhaust... OK, I'm still a "Harley guy" at heart... LOL... Can you IMAGINE the weird looks this pipe would generate in Taiwan? 
I pulled the muffler a while back, and found the Kymco design uses a full-coverage, chrome COVER on the muff... Interesting! The rear "cap" has a surprisingly complex insert, which angles a teensy protruding stub LEVEL to the ground, NOT aimed up, like the muffler. Hmmm... Now THAT intrigued me.
I've always wondered just WHY China and Taiwan chooses to put mufflers that would look right in place on a monster Diesel truck, on a 10 or 15 cubic-inch mouse-motored scooter... LOL!
So, after some extensive searching on eBay, I found a guy selling the last foot of a chromed fish-tail pipe which he ruined the front of, while working on his Harley bagger... These stupid fish-tails are usually 4-feet long, and cost over $50 each. I turned out to be the only bidder wanting only ONE fish-tail, and willing to settle for the last foot of it... LOL! Got it for $8.
I "Mickey-Moused" a piece of telescoping tubing into (and onto?) the Kymco "stub" reverse-engineering (I love that term...) to aim it back "up" parallel to the muffler, and secured the fish-tail to the whole mess with stout stainless-steel sheetmetal screws. Thinking back, I should have just had it WELDED up... Fast, simple and the discoloration from welding would only ENHANCE the look!
Whew... A lot... a WHOLE lot of "diddling" for such a simple mod... LOLOLOL! But, to this old buzzard, worth it. Ah, considering the MAJOR leatherwork you've done on YOUR sweet ride, me thinks you and I may be of similar mind-set...
If you can find a vintage exhaust tip you like, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, there's probably a way to adapt it to any scooter...
That's the whole "fishy" story!
Leo
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Post by spandi on Oct 18, 2014 16:04:36 GMT -5
Leo, ever consider giving the company an email/or call? (maybe they know the best tire brand for white wall "stickiness") Also hows about buying a new rear tire NOW so it can be all ready, super coater and cured by the time you need a replacement?  |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 18, 2014 16:07:05 GMT -5
Leo, ever consider giving the company an email/or call? (maybe they know the best tire brand for white wall "stickiness") Also hows about buying a new rear tire NOW so it can be all ready, super coater and cured by the time you need a replacement? I tried that, but got no reply. I think the seller on eBay is not actually the maker... No luck there. Leo |
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 18, 2014 18:24:04 GMT -5
oldchopperguy LOL Leo, I actually am going to do something similar. My plan is to just have a Harley pipe welded onto my header but I was hoping you fount a bolt on solution. Troubling that no one and I mean NO ONE makes a prefab retro looking exhaust for these scoots. Oh well there's always a way to get er done.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 18, 2014 22:45:27 GMT -5
oldchopperguy LOL Leo, I actually am going to do something similar. My plan is to just have a Harley pipe welded onto my header but I was hoping you fount a bolt on solution. Troubling that no one and I mean NO ONE makes a prefab retro looking exhaust for these scoots. Oh well there's always a way to get er done. Cool!
"Deleting" the muffler will certainly simplify the project! It's gonna SOUND pretty nasty, too... Also cool! You may need to slightly richen your main jet with a straight-pipe. Or better yet, add a little baffle inside the pipe. The engine should have just a little backpressure to run best.
If you do NOT want to weld the pipe to your header, you might find "step-down" adapters at an auto-parts store, reducing the Harley pipe to the scooter header size. They could be sealed together with muffler cement, and anchored together with sheetmetal screws, or, they could be slit and anchored with muffler-clamps (which also makes an "attach-point" for mounting to the scooter). I did that on my old 150, and had great success.
If the header, from the head to the pipe, looks crummy after the assembly, you can wrap that whole thing in heat-wrap and it looks cool, and "hides a multitude of sins"... LOL! Again, I did that on my old 150... Hey, worked for ME... Please see below:
In the above picture showing "parts" the flex-header is still "raw". It looked fine wrapped in heat-tape.
Here, in finished form, you can see the muffler attached to the header using muffler cement and a stainless-steel muffler clamp... For a "muffler" I used a 50cc 2-stroke "chamber" setup, simply because I had it on hand... Found it INSIDE a used COUCH at the Good-Will store!!! Some poor soul must have bought it, then HID the thing from the missus, and she gave the couch to Good-Will (after the divorce, no doubt)... They wanted $8 for the couch, so I gave them $8 and took the pipe... I left the couch! These DO run GREAT on 4-strokes, by the way... It's an old-school trick I learned way back in the 1950's during my kart-racing days!
If you don't want to run a true straight-pipe, you can adapt an inexpensive hi-perf car glasspack like the "Cherry-Bomb" or "Smitty" style, placing a vintage extension on the tail. Usually, this can all be accomplished with no more than a big vice, a big hammer and a drill and maybe a disk-grinder or drill with cut-off disk. Welding is fine, but muffler-cement, sheetmetal screws and muffler clamps can all be used with good success... The "secret" to a "professional appearance" lies in skillful use of heat-wrap and high-temp barbeque paint... LOL... REALLY!
Looking forward to pix... Whitewalls, vintage exhaust, tan leather... OOOH! ANY scooter-jockey or "Scooterista" has GOT to love it! Vespa guyz, eat yer' hearts out!
Ride SAFE, ride VINTAGE and RIDE LOUD! Guys like us may finally bring the Euro "Hooligan-Scooter" to America yet... LOL!
Leo
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 19, 2014 15:56:39 GMT -5
oldchopperguy Sorry to get off topics, but I do enjoy our conversations. My plan is to use the large pipe off of the Harley as a big ars expansion chamber with a welded restriction/baffle inside the pipe, about 2 inches from the tip. This should give the exhaust a nice deep thump but still allow for some back pressure. Basically I will have a pipe inside the tip that reduced the exit of the pipe to about 1 1/2". I'll keep my eyes open for any tips I can put on it that look like the one you found. That would be sweet. Something like this, but with a more retro look. Go to one minute and thirty-two seconds on the vid.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 19, 2014 18:15:57 GMT -5
Xyshannen,
I enjoy our talks too, and hopefully they inspire others to get out the wrenches and paint... Yup!
Based on my experiences, your pipe setup should work fine! It will be free-flowing, mellow and well-suited to a 4-stroke engine. Just be sure to securely mount the exhaust solidly to the swing-arm, as the head cannot withstand any weight "hanging" off the header mounting. I still have to remind myself that the whole engine and exhaust "bounces" with the rear wheel... For 50 years I happily mounted my custom bike exhausts to the FRAME. Can't do that on a scooter (unless it's a vintage Cushman or Mustang... LOL!).
The Ruckus custom in the video is mighty sharp. That style of custom is definitely the scooter-equivalent of a chopper. I really wish there was commonly available, a 180cc or similar GY6 with around 15hp. I rode a Kymco "People 200" loaner last year (which is really a plain, carbureted 163cc GY6). It would keep right up with traffic, and run on up to 70mph. EXACTLY what guys are always trying to do by spending a lot of time and money modding their 150's.
If the Chinese would upgrade their 150's to THAT level of performance, they couldn't build them fast enough to keep up with sales. Hopefully your scoot will run like that once you're done! I think that Kymco phony 200 is about perfect for the typical scooter enthusiast. I only wish China would develop a simple, air-cooled 180 to run like it. Of course, THAT would about DESTROY the market for 250's... LOL!
Your scoot is getting SO customized, you should start a post on the mods. I started this tire business simply because a number of riders want whitewalls in sizes that don't come from the factory in white. I figured I could save guys a lot of grief by sharing my successes and failures... But your scooter is fast-becoming a true custom-build.
Do keep your mind open as to what to make your new exhaust out of... A Harley pipe may be perfect, but there are all sorts of things that might work... I've seen some really retro-looking vintage mufflers for stationary engines used in RV generators, and "bone-yards" yield a variety of steel tubing. A great exhaust doesn't necessarily need to be chrome, or stainless-steel... Once fabbed-up, it can look GREAT painted flat-black or even bright colors using modern high-temp exhaust paint in "rattle-cans".
Do DEFINITELY keep us all posted...
and, RIDE SAFE!
Leo in Texas
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 19, 2014 21:20:06 GMT -5
No doubt this thread will inspire more custom work and hopefully our conversation will add to that inspiration.
I know you got me wanting to get some of this whitewall stuff just because...who knows I might not like the whitewalls i bought and may return back to my stock tires and give them a whitewall treatment. And in another thread I saw you and another member talking about the installation of a small car tire....One thing I would love is a fat rear tire. Again finding one that has that cool retro whitewall look is next to impossible.....I've looked.. Sp again, this thread is extremely useful.
Oh I'm more than open to different pipe options. a larger diameter pipe would be better.. I just use the Harley pipe as an example because I know they are readily available on the bay and for the masses reading this, it gives you a clear idea of what I'm looking to make for my scoot and the look I'm trying to achieve. Just an FYI, I plan on having the whole thing welded up and then sent off to be ceramic coated... I'm really just getting warmed up on my scooter build and as soon as I have a lil more done I do plan on starting a thread to document it all.
Right now I'm having to hand grind valve wells on my piston on my new BBK...Go figure the cam I'm using has too much lift and is smacking the intake valve into the piston.
Looking forward to riding safe soon!
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