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Post by captaincrunnk on Sept 2, 2014 23:21:54 GMT -5
Hey guys, As I was tearing down my Powermax 150 earlier doing my deep PDI I realized two things. 1) Highlighted with red circles: Is a thick hose leading from the area circled in red in picture #2 near the starter solenoid. It's coming off of another somewhat cylindrical piece (electronic?) with about two or three other hoses leading off of it, one attaches to the head, at the moment I'm not sure where the other leads. The hose in question however leads nowhere, is unattached from anything, yet has a clamp on it that would suggest it hooks in somewhere. For the life of me I can't figure out its purpose. I assume it's vacuum related, but the scooter seemed to run just fine when I took it out. Could this be a PAIR cannister and the hose in question the fresh air intake? 2) Highlighted with a blue circle: Is a hose leading from my air box that came plugged. What is it? And is that how it should remain?   Thanks any help folks. EDIT:
Here are some more specific and higher quality photos. This here is the device which the hoses originate from. The hose in question attaches at the bottom there.  This is the hose itself with a thing attached to it. Not quite sure what that is either, honestly, so fill me in.  And this is the only thing it appears it could connect to, attached on the other side of the frame:  |
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Post by captaincrunnk on Sept 2, 2014 23:23:23 GMT -5
Mods feel free to move this to the Garage. Totally didn't mean to post in this section
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Post by bandito2 on Sept 3, 2014 2:47:27 GMT -5
I'd just be guessing here because I'm not familiar with your engine. However there are similarities to the engines of my Reflex scooters. Hope this helps.
The hose from from the air box is a simple drain. Pretty much stays where it is but the one end of it should fit up into the air box.
The larger diameter hose (picture 1) would seem to be coming from the PAIR control valve (the gizmo with other hoses coming off of it {It's not electronic though}) One goes to the PAIR check valve (which comes off from the shiny small diameter pipe near the engine exhaust), one goes to the air box (probably where you can't see on the backside of the box) and the skinny hose should go to a "T" fitting which sends one hose to the carb and the other should go to the intake manifold somewhere between the carb and engine. There should also be a large diameter hose that goes from the crankcase to the air box too.
BTW the other small gizmo with small hoses is the EVAP Purge control valve. one hose should come from EVAP canister (the cylinder that is strapped to the frame above your air box) and the other 2 go to the carb.
The EVAP canister has a hose that goes to the EVAP Purge valve and one that goes to the fuel tank. On the other end of the canister, one nipple is a drain and the other is a fresh air intake.
Anyway, that is how it is on my Reflex.
Be careful when putting it all back together so that you don't accidentally mix coolant lines with air/vacuum lines. I bought a bike one time that had things swapped around and it was a severe headache unraveling and sorting out that spaghetti mess of hoses and getting things hooked up properly so that it would run correctly and not get coolant vented into the crankcase. (what a nightmare)
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Post by captaincrunnk on Sept 3, 2014 14:24:45 GMT -5
Added more pictures and info.
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Post by tvnacman on Sept 3, 2014 14:46:18 GMT -5
I have not had much luck getting hoses sorted out to get things working correct . I caped then bypassing them , then was able to get the engines running well .
John
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Post by captaincrunnk on Sept 3, 2014 14:54:58 GMT -5
I have not had much luck getting hoses sorted out to get things working correct . I caped then bypassing them , then was able to get the engines running well . John I mean it RUNS just great. I found another video about bypassing this system and discovered that it most likely is part of my emissions system. This hose is supposed to just breathe fresh air so I've zipped it off to the frame and will put on a filter of some kind sooner than later. |
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Post by spunn on Sept 3, 2014 15:01:51 GMT -5
Yeah that EVAP tank can crack and cause some issues, those are hoses to watch.......some people say to remove it, I never did mine on my 150cc
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Post by bandito2 on Sept 4, 2014 0:24:41 GMT -5
EDIT:
Here are some more specific and higher quality photos. This here is the device which the hoses originate from. The hose in question attaches at the bottom there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< As I stated in my previous response: The item above is the PAIR CONTROL VALVE.
QUESTION for you.... Are there 3 hoses with this device? (2 large and 1 small?)
If so, where does the other large hose go to? (take the time to carefully trace its path.) But my guess is that the upper large hose connects toward the front of the air box near where the air comes in. The fitting for that hose is likely on the back side of the air box. (where the tire is)
The other large hose from the PAIR CONTROL VALVE connects to the PAIR CHECK VALVE. (this is most likely the bottom hose) The PAIR CHECK VALVE is probably toward the underside of the engine. LOOK FOR IT!!! It is a fitting that comes at the end of that shiny metal curved pipe that originates near where the exhaust comes out of the engine.
Another large hose that goes to the back side of the air box toward the rear comes from the crankcase; (from probably somewhere around the top of the crankcase) It connects to the air box somewhere near where that other short piece of clear hose with the cap on it connects to the air box. (That short hose is a drain for oil that splashes up from the crank case venting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< This is the hose itself with a thing attached to it. Not quite sure what that is either, honestly, so fill me in. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I am not sure what that extra piece in the line is either. I do not have an equivalent part like that on my bike. It does look like some sort of baffle though...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< And this is the only thing it appears it could connect to, attached on the other side of the frame: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< This "thing" is the EVAP CANISTER
... And no, that hose does not connect to this thing.
The large stub is the fresh air inlet and the small stub is a drain. On my bike both of these stubs have very short pieces of hose with a curve pointing down and connect to nothing. One skinny hose goes to the fuel tank, the other skinny hose goes to the EVAP PURGE CONTROL VALVE (looks like from pics that they already are in their proper place. Really nothing needs to be done to this.... it seems fine as it is.
It may run OK with things not hooked up, but is likely that it would run better with things hooked up properly as they should be.
I don't know how to make it any more clear for you.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< |
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Post by captaincrunnk on Sept 4, 2014 11:33:28 GMT -5
bandito2 - Thanks for the response, it was very helpful. No need for the seemingly hostile tone though, I'm not an idiot, it was simply much more difficult to follow your first response without knowing precisely which part was what to follow what you were saying, so I appreciate you going photo by photo in this post. There are indeed 2 large hoses and one thinner one. The one large hose which is still connected to something is attached just underneath the horseshoe-like metal bar in front of the valve cover. I'll have to look in to your suggestions and report back soon.
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Post by captaincrunnk on Sept 4, 2014 12:11:41 GMT -5
This image shows the smaller hose connecting to a "T" at the intake manifold.  This is the upper bigger hose connecting under the valve cover.  And this shows the only possible open spot to connect to my air box. That drain hose you spoke of. All others have hoses connected which lead somewhere. This one is just a capped hose.  |
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Post by bandito2 on Sept 4, 2014 20:47:51 GMT -5
 Sorry for the misunderstanding, but no hostility was intended. It just seemed that you continued on a bit as if my post was ignored... glad to see it was not ignored. Please forgive my bluntness, my intentions are well meaning. I have no knowledge of your level of knowledge or ability. I try to err on the side of starting out assuming a simpler knowledge base. Folks that are well informed may take a bit of offense to that approach. But many are not as knowledgeable and seem to appreciate actually having things explained to them instead of assuming they know what the heck one is talking about. It all works out in the end mostly even if a few feathers get ruffled in the process. We're still good to go. About that short piece of hose with a cap: The end of that hose may just fit up into a small space on the air box somewhere on an underside surface. It may not actually have a stub that it slips ONTO but rather just gets pushed up into that space. There is probably not a clamp on that end either I'd guess. (the capped end might though) That is why I think it may just get pushed up into a hole the hose would fit into. That capped hose needs to be cleaned out of the oily blow-by stuff that makes it up to the air box from the crankcase from time to time. OK, the hose coming from under the valve cover would likely be from the PAIR Check Valve to the PAIR Control Valve, that would mean the other hose would be going over to the air box. I can't imagine it going any where else unless........ Just for reference, here is a link to a PDF about the PAIR system and its purpose in emissions control... Admittedly this is from an automotive vehicle point of view. (other than motorcycles), But, understanding the explanations given and you can see why I might think the other hose from the PAIR Control Valve goes over to the air box. If not, then I may have to suppose that extra gizmo on the hose that I couldn't identify may actually be a very small air filter and concede that it does not need to go to the air box to get clean filtered air. So that hose can just hang wherever in the engine area. www.autoshop101.com/forms/h65.pdfFurther, from the information you can see that your bike will still run just fine with out the system in operation. It does its work mostly up until the engine warms up and during deceleration, but without it in operation, your engine is polluting more during those times. Hope this settles things somewhat. 
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Post by captaincrunnk on Sept 5, 2014 7:21:44 GMT -5
bandito2 It's all good man! Misunderstandings are easy through the typed word and being one who frequents Reddit etc, I can tend to be a bit defensive too. Thanks again for your thought out and informational response. I'm going to do one more good going over under my plastics and around my engine to see if I can find absolutely ANYTHING that may need, want, or be missing a hose attached to it. If that black cylinder is in fact an air filter it would make perfect sense that the hose is supposed to hang out somewhere safe. For completeness' sake, here is that video I found of a guy who had what I assume to be the exact same type of system I have where the hose is left dangling:
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