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Post by chihuahuas on Mar 19, 2013 10:47:41 GMT -5
Its a fractional fullwave system. First the lighting coil does all the work. The second coil (charging coil) is 180 degrees out of phase and works to delete current/voltage output from the lighting coil. As a by product DC is available to feed the battery at the second coil in the reverse phase.. ---------------------Disclamer--------------------- ""This is a totally Abstract way of looking at it. It is Not accurate at all"" -------------------------------------------------------- Got IT. 1st coil pumps out full power 80 watts 2nd coil pulls in full power 80 watts these cancel each other out. So add a load 35 watt lamp. lighting coil passes 35 watts to ground and the second coil drains off the other 45 watts co phase and cancels out the overload. Pretty Awesome. So in reality you can disconnect the second coil and invert it to in phase and double the output of the system and probably melt the windings. Jump in any thoughts ...  |
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Post by justbuggin2 on Mar 19, 2013 11:01:11 GMT -5
how in the world did you come up with this idea?
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Post by chihuahuas on Mar 19, 2013 11:13:03 GMT -5
I'm running a 65 watt halogen seal beam rat headlight and no battery on a 50cc 139(44)qmb and it has been flawless for 2 years. This raised the guestion, how is it possible to pull full power from the lighting coil and use nothing on the battery side. Well led taillight is the only load on the battery side. Next step is to go with an HID headlamp and to do so means a redo of the stock config to a fullwave floating systen like the 150s use. Problem there is the use a wierd stator config like the 50cc use except it is bigger. 100watts. I will have to understand what is going on clearly in these systems to change rewire mine to a full wave 1 coil or a dual coil strapped in phase config to see this to work.  |
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Post by woowilly on Mar 19, 2013 22:24:49 GMT -5
Here's one way to do it with parallel wired coils. Coil polarity in this case doesn't matter. The seperate bridge rectifiers keeps one coil from feeding power to the other due to coil mismatch. The 0.1 ohm resistors help to balance the load between the two coils if there's a slight mismatch in coil windings. The diode and capacitor for the headlight helps to reduce flickering at idle. ( they're optional. ) Stock regulator is used. My only concern is using only one of the two SCRs may be too much current for it. I still need to look up the p/n and ratings of the stock regulator SCRs to say for sure. If it's not rated high enough, it's easy to roll your own shunt regulator. just copy the sense circuit of the stock regulator and stick a higher rated SCR on it. ( short rectified stator output to ground through SCR. ) Attachments:
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Post by woowilly on Mar 19, 2013 22:51:24 GMT -5
Oops....
There needs to be a diode added between the battery and the regulator output in my schematic above to keep the regulator from shorting the battery to grond and letting the smoke out of the SCR.
The stock regulator SCRs are rated for 12 amps each, using only one shouldn't be a problem.
The 0.1 ohm resistors need to be 5 watt or higher rated.
( 5 watts resistor will be 100% over rated at 5 amps per coil. )
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Post by woowilly on Mar 19, 2013 23:19:12 GMT -5
There's a Diode in the stock regulator between the SCR and battery. A diode needs to be added only if you roll your own regulater to have one with higher a rated SCR and battery isolation diode. ( It doesn't hurt to add it anyway with stock regulator.)
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Post by chihuahuas on Mar 20, 2013 9:52:54 GMT -5
Could use a 3 phase regular "shunt SCR" to run a 2 phase configuration like this. Either Y or Delta. My money is on the Y for low rpm high voltage output.  Here is a hacked 3 phase delta configurered stator diagram  could use the off the shelf 3 phase reg Rec either way. |
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Post by woowilly on Mar 21, 2013 21:20:06 GMT -5
you can also use the 4-pin regulator ( non-3 phase one ) with a 3 phase stator.
Just use the same same setup as as the 2 coil stator comfigured as quasi 3-phase above.
I left out the carb cold start enrichener wireing in my double bridge rectifier schematic above, It can be connected to either side of the headlight diode. I Prefer headlight on only when engine is running. ( if wired to key switched +12, it's not much fun after forgetting to turn key off after kill switch is used to stop engine and kick starter doesn't work due to trying to start spinning the engine on the compression stroke. (my kick starter works only if there a little crank & flywheel inertia before hitting the compression stroke on my engine. due to fairly high compression.)
It's nice seeing several different options on how to wire up a better charge circuit than the standard crappy non-3phase setup. One can mix & match the differing possibilities to personal preference.
I'm gonna go with a real three phase Y wired stator with a 6 diode rectifier fed into a 4 pin regulator. ( this setup requires a fuse in the battery charge wire in case the battery is near dead. a three phase stator can exceed the regulators' SCR current rating under that condition. a resistor wired in series could be used as a way to prevent that, I'll have to sort that out as to which works best later after I upgrade the stator. My priorities dictate MPH increasing mods gotta get done first...)
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